My husband of nearly 30 years has asked me a number of times if I think I'll "ever be able to get off medications". I am bipolar with severe anxiety. He is an intelligent man, and he is also of the belief that if we are "Godly" enough (trust in God enough) we can overcome even physical illness. Sadly, my husband's severe OCD and GAD has severely impaired his life (he refuses meds & spends his life beating up on himself for not being "spiritual" enough to overcome his mental illnesses).
I don't foresee myself being able to function in life without meds. I barely function ON meds; without them I am very mentally disturbed and not at all able to function normally. I feel so demeaned, so defeated, when my husband asks me the question about meds. And I feel angry, because the issue is his issue, not mine - I KNOW I need meds because I KNOW that my mental illness is neurobiological.

Does anyone have any input? Similar experience?

[Frankbtl]

Hi Sister Rags, firstly kudos to you for recognizing you need medication, recognizing it's nothing to be "ashamed" of, and sticking with it!!!
Now the "intelligent man" bit I'd really like to dispute but.........
If he's religious (the "Godly" comments) there are plenty of religious people out there who do "get" mental health problems and the neurobiological aspect, do you think gathering their opinions might help convince him just a little?
Even if he goes to any church would there be anyone there, if you check it out, who could talk to him a bit more about the real side to it. Or if it comes to it even things you can find on YouTube with the combined spirituality and mental illness aspect agreeing?? Then he may be more "enlightened" about not only your situation but (long shot!) his too.
Otherwise if you could just agree with him that this is your choice for you, non-negotiable, and an agree to dis-agree aspect of your relationship.
But you know, if nothing's worked/working I'd seriously be suggesting you "show him the door". You need far more understanding than that!! And with an attitude like that what I'm reading is going to be "the tip of the iceberg", right? If he doesn't get the causes, that it isn't your "fault" then he isn't really getting the rest of what you are dealing with, right? He isn't really going to be offering you real support when you need it? Maybe even making things worse for you?
But you know the situation far better than me, just something to think about???? And here's hoping you're getting great support from a pdoc.
Alison

[Dix888]

Hooray for you knowing that you need meds. Your husband, especially after 30 years, should be more understanding & supportive. Feel free to show him this answer if you want to. I am a devoutly religious person (since age 18, I am now nearly 62). I tried for decades to "let go & let God." I prayed & prayed for healing. I had devout friends lay hands on me & pray. Finally (with my husband's urging) I got all the tests done & was diagnosed with seizures & bipolar (especially manias). I got onto good meds. As you know, this takes time. They work although, like you, I find it often hard to work through the "brain fog." But life is so much better with these good medications. They are not a crutch! I still deeply love God & know that God has inspired scientists to develop medications that help people with brain disorders. I hope your husband will be kinder to himself & you & be OK with taking meds. If you had to take insulin for diabetes, wouldn't he be OK with that? You are right, this is a neurobiological illness. It is not sin nor is it weakness.

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

My husband of nearly 30 years has asked me a number of times if I think I'll "ever be able to get off medications". I am bipolar with severe anxiety. He is an intelligent man, and he is also of the belief that if we are "Godly" enough (trust in God enough) we can overcome even physical illness. Sadly, my husband's severe OCD and GAD has severely impaired his life (he refuses meds & spends his life beating up on himself for not being "spiritual" enough to overcome his mental illnesses).
Does anyone have any input? Similar experience?

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

My husband of nearly 30 years has asked me a number of times if I think I'll "ever be able to get off medications".

I would not take the question personally, it is nonsense to me; like asking, "Do you walk to school or carry your lunch?" I would answer him, "I do not know, I do not wish to go off my medications." His opinions on your state of health and use of medication don't count for much? He is not you and lacks any sort of knowledge/education/experience on the subject.

I don't think you want to. Or I should say that has been my perception. If you did want and for the amount of time you have been on them I think it would be a very long and tough process. Then there is the permanent damage that may never be recoverable. From my pov "needing" them or not needing them is not as much of a factor as what you are comfortable with.

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Thank you all so very much for taking the time to read my post and reply to it.

I like the option of not personalizing my husband's question. That's what I aim for. Even though it still hurts...I feel misunderstood and isolated when he asks the question. No, the insulin/diabetes argument doesn't sway his opinion, because he is a devout believer of each person creating our own reality, including creating our physical health (or illness). My husband follows the teachings of A Course In Miracles...which he seems to get kind of mixed in with certain aspects of his rigid old-school Methodist upbringing (the Methodist church has progressed a lot since my husband was a child). He's followed ACIM for decades. My mental illness has always been a source of confusion and frustration for him. his OWN mental illness is tremendously stressful for him - but he also denies much of what our children and I see as his mental illness. He believes that to be sick (ANY kind of sick) simply means that we are asking for love...the ultimate love being the love of God, and we reach God by asking for help from the Holy Spirit and/or Jesus. I was raised with several religious and spiritual influences and I am a spiritual person. I believe in the power of genetics and such, though.

Michanne, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to go off meds. I feel like my life has been stolen from me by mental illness and, subsequently, by the medication I need to treat said illness. I just try not to think about it, to just keep looking ahead rather then dwelling constantly on the extensive damage mental illness and med side-effects have done to me.

btw, Michanne...your post sounds like something my husband might say. Do you believe that mental illness is something people create?

Hello Dear Sis-

So if you had a compound fracture and the bone was stickig up out of your arm, does he believe it could be fixed with prayer? I am so sorry you must deal with this issue (his issues!) on top of everything else. It must make you feel so lonely to have someone you have devoted your life to, behave in such a childish way. Perhaps if you make the pilgramage to Lourds?

My husband, who was an idiot in many ways, had sense enough to know he did NOT want to be around me when I am off my meds. I am not familiar with the religious teachings your husband is following, but if you had cancer, would he expect you to pray it away?

I think most of us hate what this illness does to us and hate having to live life behind a filter of chemicals. But it's what it takes to achieve any kind of normal life without being strapped to a gurney in a padded room. And yes, I hate that it has stolen so much of my life. I think about what I might have accomplished in my life if not for the monsters that live in my head.

He is obviously never going to be able to change his mind about this-regarding his own health or yours, so acceptence seems to be your only recourse at this time. The next time it begins, you might simply get up and leave the room and refuse to discuss this with him at all.

Just keep in mind that we are always here for you. God loves us and prayer is good but since he gave us the gift of free will, perhaps he intended us to use the gift of logic as well. Sending , T&S

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

btw, Michanne...your post sounds like something my husband might say. Do you believe that mental illness is something people create?

No, of course not. My answer tried to get away from "needing or not needing drugs" because I don't think that is an answer your husband is accepting. He believes nobody needs drugs. I am saying you are an individual and you need to make individual choices. Whether you see it or not taking meds is still a choice. Being out of control and ill is still a choice.

I think it is a spectrum where most people taking meds today fall in the middle and some people fall at the ends. If you are at one of the ends meds may be the only method we have to function the way our culture wants. You mentioned side effects as an additional deterrent to going of the meds. I don't know you well enough and I didn't know when you started well enough to know if you would have taken the same path if you started today. I do think there is research not getting enough attention that would move us away from such dependence on meds. I am really hoping some of the shifts in thinking that think tankers have discussed for this century happen. I believe that will help too (purposefully leaving a lot out because it would be too long). While it may not help you don't you want to see others benefit from that? Don't you want future gens with severe mental illness not to have to take meds or at least so many? Well I believe there needs to be a paradigm shift before that can happen.

For me. I chose drugs and I am not comfortable with it. That is not the same as regretting the decision. It is more about doing what I can to find an alternative. Needing drugs is not the issue. What I "need" is a way to deal with the depression. It doesn't have to be meds (except for the damn dependence factor).

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I secretly have hope that in my lifetime I'll see effective treatments for mental illness that don't involve taking medications - at least, not as many meds. It sure does seem like research is lagging severely. As it's becoming more and more apparent that psych meds, while potentially incredibly helpful (but with all the terrible side-effects, burn-out, etc.), are not the perfect answer to mental illness treatment (and certainly aren't a cure), I wonder why other types of research aren't happening - or aren't available to patients. Michanne, you're probably correct about future generations having access to non-med or low-med treatment options that we might not have during our lifetimes. I sure hope so.

Sadly, I'm used to my husband's lack of understanding and acceptance about mental illness. Oh, he's sympathetic, but he retains his belief system...that we somehow make an agreement to be sick, whether it's a broken bone or mental illness or cancer or a cold. He says it's not about "blame", but is about us making the decision, at some point, to stop agreeing to illness and replace that self-defeating behavior with love and faith in God. Who knows...he might be correct...still, it does feel like blame when he asks me if I am willing to consider the possibility that I might someday be able to give up medication. And perhaps the worst part of it is that, underneath it all, he's annoyed about having to pay for prescriptions every month...how Godly that is, I'm not sure

Anyway, thanks again Frankbtl, Dix888, Perna, Michanne, Tea&Sympathy, & Fuzzybear for your input and support. I am truly grateful

You know MI isn't as simple as other illnesses. If you concur with what I believe: that it is a spectrum the lines between what is illness and what is simply different become pretty blurred. It's not like people say "well she might have cancer but we aren't sure so let's just give her chemo. Let's not tell her she'll loose her hair in the process because she might not do it otherwise." I had a procedure this week and they had no problem telling me the worst of the worst that could happen. (Next time I am having that DNR prepared.)

Your husband sounds like he has a difficult time and he is probably difficult. (At least I would likely find him difficult but then I am agnostic approaching atheist. Anybody who tries to sell me their religion drives me crazy!) Yet he is paying bills somehow even if he isn't working. And you are still married to him and still talking so you must like him in some level. Some people are sufferers. I'm like that... Up to a point anyway. Like they are happy being unhappy. I realize I am reading a lot into very little information and probably overstepping. Is it wrong for him to refuse meds? I mean athletes beat themselves up if they don't win a race. It isn't exactly healthy but we don't tell them to stop trying either

All I'm suggesting is you both consider being more accepting

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Thanks, Michanne. Yes...he and I have learned a lot in the 3 decades we've been married. We no longer live together (haven't for the past 7 years). We are dear friends, which is extremely important to both of us. And we're both close to our grown children. The main reason he and I don't live together is because of his OCD/hoarding. Here's the funny thing...he hoards BOOKS. He/we own around 65,000 books! He pays for 2 storage units to house the books, and his 3-bedroom house is STACKED wall-to-wall-to-ceiling with boxes of books. Now, we do have an online book business (which does well). But living in a house with my husband is impossible...unless you are willing to live by walking through narrow pathways between the ceiling-high boxes - and he doesn't want the books touched by anyone besides himself, for fear they might be damaged (think of someone like "Monk" on the TV show).

Anyway. Yes, we have learned, are learning, to be more accepting of each other's quirks...which is why I wish he'd be more flexible about his spiritual beliefs vs. mine. I'm a spiritual person, and I also believe in science, at least to a degree.

btw, I most definitely agree with you about the spectrum concept. I have my ways of...you know...assessing what and when needs treatment (when a possible symptom pops up I ask myself- is this a physical thing, does it prevent me from living a more-or-less normal life, etc.).

I suppose when all is said and done, I would like my husband to respect that I know myself well enough by now to know if and when I need meds. Because as it is, when he questions me about meds, I hear "I think you're being kind of stupid, or trying to be special somehow, by insisting that you're mentally ill when 'everyone knows' mental illness isn't a real sickness"...or something like that. Anyway...thank you.

That must be rather interesting. Are they new books or old books? If they are old books maybe there is some treasure. But then if he is OCD maybe he wouldn't want old books. I think you can fit 65000 books on a kindle. You can fit even more on Amazon. No torn pages I'm only teasing because I have way more books on my Kindle than I will ever get to. They just don't take up as much room.

I'm glad you are at least mostly able to work things out anyway. Stick to your guns.

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[venusss]

Just one thing... when people say they are mess "even" on the meds, I secretly wonder if some of their problems aren't in fact "because of" the meds.

I seen some people try to explain new symptoms as illness worsening and so on. But you have to be honest to yourself... how has your course of treatment been? Are you actually better off or is your "illness" worsening as more and more meds are added? Do you remember what you are truly off meds (and not "last time i cold turkeyed it was a mess").

I get bit iffy when people say they "need" something. Technically you need water, food and sleep. Yes, many things, including substances make your life more easier, bearable.... but is it an actually "need"? I am not so sure. And I say this as somebody with cabinet full of supplements that I "can't do without".

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Just one thing... when people say they are mess "even" on the meds, I secretly wonder if some of their problems aren't in fact "because of" the meds.

I seen some people try to explain new symptoms as illness worsening and so on. But you have to be honest to yourself... how has your course of treatment been? Are you actually better off or is your "illness" worsening as more and more meds are added? Do you remember what you are truly off meds (and not "last time i cold turkeyed it was a mess").

I get bit iffy when people say they "need" something. Technically you need water, food and sleep. Yes, many things, including substances make your life more easier, bearable.... but is it an actually "need"? I am not so sure. And I say this as somebody with cabinet full of supplements that I "can't do without".

I think there was an example earlier of needing crutches if you have a broken leg. Technically you don't need crutches. If you can stay at home and work out the food, shopping, etc you can heal without them. Or you could use a wheel chair. Or you could let it stay broken and live with it. Sister's husband would probably do this. If you have the ways and means to take care of it at home without crutches it is probably the least risky but kind of limiting. Who is to say there is anything wrong with that? With MI I think it is way more complicated than that because it is a mix of normal and abnormal. The line between the two are completely subjective within individuals and society. Even within society. A bipolar person can find a nice little niche for themselves in the world of comedy with little or no meds but be forced to hide themselves in the banking world.

For me it comes down to a choice of modifying me or modifying my world. I agree it is more of a choice then a need. If you have responsibilities to others it is going to feel more like a need. I say I have the choice but because I am on meds already I am not sure it is completely my choice anymore.

I think it is horrible that there is not more awareness of iatrogenic illness. If people understood the possibility I think we would have less people starting ADs uninformed. Or even worse... Benzos. I think it's great you figured it out before becoming dependent.

I ramble.

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[venusss]

As I said... I take plenty of supplements myself and I am much better off with them. But I am able to ditch them temporarily when needed (for example when I travel... who wants to be caught on borders with bagful of suspicious herbs, homemade tinctures and capsules?)

I just think for a person to say "I need to be on these meds for rest of the life"... it's already setting limits on themselves and their abilities. Is it easier? Sure, if one is lucky enough to fnd drugs that help, then why not. But for many it's not the case-

Oh, I am agreeing with you. I would like to live in a foreign country. The last thing I want is to limit myself out of fear my meds won't be available. The thing is one reason I want to move is because it only takes two weeks on a wholesome diet and sun to feel better. Really better. I know I would still get depressed but hopefully I'll be in a place mentally and economically to work with it. That's what I want to be "dependent" on someday.

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The books are both new and used, but all in lovely condition...lots of collectible books, many antiquarian.

Venus, I am well aware of the negative issues that meds have caused for me. Weight gain and cognitive impairment being two problems. I lived for the first 23 years of my life without meds and I was mentally and physically on a roller coaster ride of EXTREME mood swings - some manias that ended up with me in trouble in school, in dangerous situations because my judgment was inappropriate, EXTREME anxieties and depressions that would leave me screaming in very physical pain on the bathroom floor. I had OCD issues that were so severe I could not get through a math class with a grade higher than "D". Everything...my thoughts, moods, feelings...was so unpredictable from day to day (or hour to hour) that I most probably would have ended up dead or in prison had I not opted to take psych meds.

I still say that there's a spectrum. My mental illness went toward the high end of that spectrum. Please understand and please believe me: I could not control my state of being and I was in agony. Medication saved my life. YES, it saved my life. That said, I don't deny that meds also do damage. For me, it's not about being "easier". It is about being able to LIVE.

Michanne, thank you for your post. I agree.

Also Venus...you are quite young, correct? Have you been married? Raised a family? Do you work? Priorities can determine, sometimes, whether or not psych meds are necessary.

[ladybugparkway]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

My husband of nearly 30 years has asked me a number of times if I think I'll "ever be able to get off medications". I am bipolar with severe anxiety. He is an intelligent man, and he is also of the belief that if we are "Godly" enough (trust in God enough) we can overcome even physical illness. Sadly, my husband's severe OCD and GAD has severely impaired his life (he refuses meds & spends his life beating up on himself for not being "spiritual" enough to overcome his mental illnesses).
I don't foresee myself being able to function in life without meds. I barely function ON meds; without them I am very mentally disturbed and not at all able to function normally. I feel so demeaned, so defeated, when my husband asks me the question about meds. And I feel angry, because the issue is his issue, not mine - I KNOW I need meds because I KNOW that my mental illness is neurobiological.

Does anyone have any input? Similar experience?

Hi there

I just joined this group which look very interesting.

I can tell you that I take meds for high anxiety. I cannot function so it either. I have tried & have counseled for years. My fiancé believes a similar problem. He drinks each evening to try to kill his pain from the disease he has. I just posted so out it. It should show up shortly.

I believe we are who we are and I find that I need less of my mess when he travels. I have discovered that I believe he is part of my anxiety .... Not that it will ever completely disappear, but I feel much less as if I walk on egg shells when he is gone.

[venusss]

I work. I don't plan on marrying or having kids (maybe).

I am glad I look youthful, but I am not really that young anymore.

As for priorities... my brain is my money maker. Anything that messes with it would make me unable to earn living. So yes, priorities. I take agony of places where normals mind don't venture as long as I can keep my brain.

I was merely refering to your "mess even on meds" line. Sometimes a thing that saves you at one point can hinder you later on. I don't know. I know there have been quite a few people here that been "mess even on meds" and went to "quite well and not on meds". I am glad you found something that works, but it was you not me who complained about how it's not perfect.

How refreshing this is an intelligent peaceful convo without anti med accusations! Yes it is possible. Thanks!

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Michanne, yes, intelligent, thoughtful dialogue is possible and most welcomed.

Venus, I hear you on the meds messing with your mind so you can't do what you need or want to do to make a living. I have been a creative person all of my life...at one point years ago I had poetry published in respectable poetry journals. More poetry was requested of me, but at that time I was raising young children and I had to choose between being a crazy poet or being a good mother to my children. Meds allowed me to be a good mother. Sad, about the poetry...but - my God - I now have two grown children who are just plain incredible people. Now, at age 51, that means so much to me and as the years go by, the importance of family becomes paramount.

It's just over the past year that meds have been kind of letting me down. I strongly suspect, however, that a big part of the problem is not mental illness, not meds, but perimenopause. I hope I'm wrong, because there really isn't any clear treatment for menopause craziness...it really scares me. Venus, how are you with not being on medication? I mean...are you able to function successfully on a day-to-day basis in your world?

Originally Posted by ladybugparkway

Hi there

I just joined this group which look very interesting.

I can tell you that I take meds for high anxiety. I cannot function so it either. I have tried & have counseled for years. My fiancé believes a similar problem. He drinks each evening to try to kill his pain from the disease he has. I just posted so out it. It should show up shortly.

I believe we are who we are and I find that I need less of my mess when he travels. I have discovered that I believe he is part of my anxiety .... Not that it will ever completely disappear, but I feel much less as if I walk on egg shells when he is gone.

Hi ladybugparkway I'm sorry that you feel more anxious around your fiancee. Are you sure he's someone you want to marry?