I wish I am still a religious person, I would consider becoming a hermit in a monastery way way deep in the desert very seriously. I just don't belong to this world and its rules. Please don't tell me to seek therapy or suggest anything. It won't work with me right now. I am very defensive. If you relate and understand, please let me know.

[vonmoxie]

Personally I don't think of being in a monastery as really being a hermit, because a monastery is still an active community, albeit using nonverbal communication.

So, I'm not sure which it is for you.. is your inclination to truly socially isolate, or is it just to not verbally communicate?

I've often wished I had the kind of specific religious convictions that would qualify me to be able to join a religious order, as I think that lifestyle would suit me. Total social isolation, on the other hand, is a tendency of mine -- but one that only gets me into trouble when I honor it. For me it only makes worse the things that I wish it to make better.

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

Personally I don't think of being in a monastery as really being a hermit, because a monastery is still an active community, albeit using nonverbal communication.

So, I'm not sure which it is for you.. is your inclination to truly socially isolate, or is it just to not verbally communicate?

I've often wished I had the kind of specific religious convictions that would qualify me to be able to join a religious order, as I think that lifestyle would suit me. Total social isolation, on the other hand, is a tendency of mine -- but one that only gets me into trouble when I honor it. For me it only makes worse the things that I wish it to make better.

Truly social isolation, like St. Anthony the Great, or in community. The important thing is to be far from this world, and expect nothing and live satisfied that way.

[Ocean Swimmer]

I cope sometimes by pure isolation. I do the minimum. Eat. Sleep. I stay in bed all day and read books. That's how I cope. Sometime it passes. Sometimes it lasts a very long time.

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

...

Total social isolation, on the other hand, is a tendency of mine -- but one that only gets me into trouble when I honor it. For me it only makes worse the things that I wish it to make better.

The same is here. I developed total social isolation because no matter how hard I try, the end result is failure not matter what. But how do you cope with this? Are you content with your isolation?

Originally Posted by Ocean Swimmer

I cope sometimes by pure isolation. I do the minimum. Eat. Sleep. I stay in bed all day and read books. That's how I cope. Sometime it passes. Sometimes it lasts a very long time.

I try to read and play videos games, but at the end I lose the motivation and get depressed, because my isolation is almost always permanent. I want to be more socially accepted, but always end as a failure. For me both, being isolated and being socially rejected, are very painful, and simply I don't know how to cope.

Why do you feel that you don't belong? Can you explain, please?

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by Le.Monsieur.S

The same is here. I developed total social isolation because no matter how hard I try, the end result is failure not matter what. But how do you cope with this? Are you content with your isolation?

There have been a couple of periods of time in my life during which I tended to isolate. One was for most of my childhood.. would dodge the school bus and sneak back into my house while my parents were at work, forge their signatures on letters to the school indicating I was home sick.. This would work for up to 2 or 3 months at a time, which is either a credit to my artistry, or a discredit to the school administrations. It did help to instill self-confidence in me for successfully managing the process and acquiring relief I fiercely needed at the time due to both my family life and my school life being abusive and demeaning, and having never experienced a moment of solace. I started socializing more successfully in high school due to meeting people more like me though.. you know, weirdos. Artists, intellectuals, the sexually fluid, etc. People more interested in drawing out their most real and unique purpose than in satisfying the status quo.

It wasn't until a couple of decades later when my husband passed that I went into a deep deep depression, and easily leaned back into that pattern of not wanting to leave the house. Started working mostly from home, only going into the office for meetings which absolutely required me to be there in person, which was only a couple of times a month. Even now, and I've long since left that job, I'm interacting with people far less than I used to, which is now less than I want to. I don't find isolation rewarding, ultimately. The more I might isolate, the more socially awkward I tend to become, creating a downward spiral. For me it's sort of a "use it or lose it" kind of thing.. so these days I force myself. Even if all I do some days is visit the grocery store or the gym, which aren't particularly social beyond "hi/have a good day", at least I've been in the company of other humans. I find that's better, for me; I do think we are as much the product of collective and social intelligence as we are of individual intelligence. No one exists in a vacuum, although it is preferable at times.

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

There have been a couple of periods of time in my life during which I tended to isolate. One was for most of my childhood.. would dodge the school bus and sneak back into my house while my parents were at work, forge their signatures on letters to the school indicating I was home sick.. This would work for up to 2 or 3 months at a time, which is either a credit to my artistry, or a discredit to the school administrations. It did help to instill self-confidence in me for successfully managing the process and acquiring relief I fiercely needed at the time due to both my family life and my school life being abusive and demeaning, and having never experienced a moment of solace. I started socializing more successfully in high school due to meeting people more like me though.. you know, weirdos. Artists, intellectuals, the sexually fluid, etc. People more interested in drawing out their most real and unique purpose than in satisfying the status quo.

It wasn't until a couple of decades later when my husband passed that I went into a deep deep depression, and easily leaned back into that pattern of not wanting to leave the house. Started working mostly from home, only going into the office for meetings which absolutely required me to be there in person, which was only a couple of times a month. Even now, and I've long since left that job, I'm interacting with people far less than I used to, which is now less than I want to. I don't find isolation rewarding, ultimately. The more I might isolate, the more socially awkward I tend to become, creating a downward spiral. For me it's sort of a "use it or lose it" kind of thing.. so these days I force myself. Even if all I do some days is visit the grocery store or the gym, which aren't particularly social beyond "hi/have a good day", at least I've been in the company of other humans. I find that's better, for me; I do think we are as much the product of collective and social intelligence as we are of individual intelligence. No one exists in a vacuum, although it is preferable at times.

Yes we are social intelligence/animals, that is why loneliness is a killer for humans. But what does prevent you from talking to others now?

For me I am a very shy and socially awkward person. I acquired the highest education I can get, have a good job, healthy, and not ugly and most people would say I have a good life in general, yet I am down the road for suicidal thoughts because I don't have a social life. Right now I just need to cry and sleep.

[vonmoxie]

When I isolated, it broke down a lot of friendships I previously had. I didn't make myself available to others, and that understandably hurt a lot of people; or they just moved on. At my age (oldish) it's harder to start new friendships, as most people my age have mostly already sorted themselves out in that regard.

So what has stopped me personally is that I couldn't get the quality of connection that I once did, between having messed up those friendships, and also that my very best friend and my husband had both passed away, and so I miss the sense of possibility I once had through better connections. I just had to accept that loss -- which was easier said than done, because first one has to realize what a loss really is for them, what it entails, in order to be able to accept it and thus be able to start from where you are. Like when my husband passed, I had to realize and accept not just that he was gone, but all the ways in which he enriched my life, my humanity.. real loss inevitably involves a lot of spiritual work.

Patience helps me a lot. I appreciate however present other persons are able to be in the moment with me, knowing it varies a lot. People have things on their mind, feel prevented from connecting for whatever reason whether it's because they are angry, forlorn, frustrated, or what have you. I know that if they are rude, or aloof, it's more to do with who they are than it is to do with who I am.

There are a few different meet-ups where I live for shy people.. maybe if there's something like that near you (here @meetup) it could be a positive opportunity for you, to be able to work on socializing with others for whom it is also meaningful to do so..? Just an idea.

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

When I isolated, it broke down a lot of friendships I previously had. I didn't make myself available to others, and that understandably hurt a lot of people; or they just moved on. At my age (oldish) it's harder to start new friendships, as most people my age have mostly already sorted themselves out in that regard.

So what has stopped me personally is that I couldn't get the quality of connection that I once did, between having messed up those friendships, and also that my very best friend and my husband had both passed away, and so I miss the sense of possibility I once had through better connections. I just had to accept that loss -- which was easier said than done, because first one has to realize what a loss really is for them, what it entails, in order to be able to accept it and thus be able to start from where you are. Like when my husband passed, I had to realize and accept not just that he was gone, but all the ways in which he enriched my life, my humanity.. real loss inevitably involves a lot of spiritual work.

Patience helps me a lot. I appreciate however present other persons are able to be in the moment with me, knowing it varies a lot. People have things on their mind, feel prevented from connecting for whatever reason whether it's because they are angry, forlorn, frustrated, or what have you. I know that if they are rude, or aloof, it's more to do with who they are than it is to do with who I am.

There are a few different meet-ups where I live for shy people.. maybe if there's something like that near you (here @meetup) it could be a positive opportunity for you, to be able to work on socializing with others for whom it is also meaningful to do so..? Just an idea.

I am sorry for your loss. So, you haven't been that way all the time? I mean your relationship with your husband, I would assume, was enough for you?

I think I have the same feeling about the relationships of quality. I mean, even though I am hungry for a social relationship, most people I encounter are just careless, ignorant, and pretentious. I am so sensitive to these things in others. So, I guess my sensitivity plays a role in my isolation.

It is said that Issac Newton was very fragile emotionally. I guess that is why he didn't have many friends (actually he made many enemies), and didn't get married. But at least he is Isaac Newton, the most intelligent man on Earth, many scientists say.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by Le.Monsieur.S

I am sorry for your loss. So, you haven't been that way all the time? I mean your relationship with your husband, I would assume, was enough for you?

I think I have the same feeling about the relationships of quality. I mean, even though I am hungry for a social relationship, most people I encounter are just careless, ignorant, and pretentious. I am so sensitive to these things in others. So, I guess my sensitivity plays a role in my isolation.

It is said that Issac Newton was very fragile emotionally. I guess that is why he didn't have many friends (actually he made many enemies), and didn't get married. But at least he is Isaac Newton, the most intelligent man on Earth, many scientists say.

There's certainly a lot to be said for intellectual pursuits being benefited by the abilities of some persons to be okay with just their own company. I'm glad to be able to count myself among them.

However, regarding your question about whether I was always "that way" .. I was always told that I was an introvert and a loner, and my lack of friends and of social confidence certainly suggested that was the case. But the truth is that my awkwardness stemmed from bad self-esteem, which stemmed from being bullied and worse both at school and at home, and once I got a change of scenery I experienced different parts of myself. For instance, I'm American but at a certain point went to boarding school in England, and without the baggage of anyone having preconceived notions about who I was -- and without the baggage of my own family being around to put me down -- I was released to experience myself as a person worthy of social regard, and I developed excellent friendships there. Turned out I was vibrant, funny, all kinds of things that were subjugated in my experience living back in the States with my family.

Later in my life I made career choices that allowed me to move thousands of miles away from my hometown, and I likewise was able to move more freely with others, enjoying a much better variety of social engagement, and popularity at a level I had not formerly known. Some of this I credit to the location I moved to, that people were less uptight, more open-minded to others etc. but I'm sure part of it was also due to how I felt there, that it was a place I could make my own instead of being the place I just happened to end up in by being born to my parents.

I've definitely been on both sides of the coin where social orientation is concerned. For me, once I truly realized that my supposed introversion was only the product of the bad behaviors of those around me and including my family, I was determined not to accept it, and to find others more like me, however much I might have to awkwardly put myself out there until I did.

These words of Timothy Leary's about finding the others always spoke to me:

“Admit it. You aren’t like them. You’re not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes. But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider, watching the “normal people” as they go about their automatic existences. For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”. Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others…”

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

...

“Admit it. You aren’t like them. You’re not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes. But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider, watching the “normal people” as they go about their automatic existences. For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”. Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others…”

Thank you.