[luciazi]

Hello,

This is my first post here and I want to thank you all in advance for any guidance, advice, criticism and opinions.

I have been in a relationship with my BF for a year and a half now. When I first met him I realised that he has low self-esteem but I believed that thanks to my nature and our beautiful relationship-to be, he will forget/overcome his insecurities. He moved in with me after maybe 8 months and have been living together until very recently.
In the first couple of months he kept accusing me and making scenarios that I don't really like and love him, but I use him for emotional resources just like all women do. (his theory) After many tears, fights and demonstrations he believed me, that my feelings are honest and I don't use him.
After 2-3 months he came with another idea: that I use him for material resources, money. That I stay with him for financial stability. This idea occured to him, because in the last month I gained half of the salary due to some problems at my workplace. Enough for him to believe that I don't really love and like him but I stay with him for the money.
After many tears, fightings and steps towards break-up he believed me. That I truly love him, and I don't care about the money.

Our recent problem and reason to fight is because he is extremely pessimistic and negative. Living with him I felt the darkness flooded in me. He despies the human nature and oftenly feels that life has no purpose and also many activities he feels that have no purpose. Because ''life is ugly'' he oftenly said.
My problem is that I am more sensitive than most people. (in the bad way) If he exposes me to this negative opinions about how awful women are and how much they hurt the men, and how ugly the world is, I start crying and get into depressive moods. And I also feel sometimes that life is not worth living anymore. It's all pain and suffering.
He doesn't get these ideas all by himself, but he reads all kind of forums with negative topics, he deepens himself in the negative part of life and then he comes and acusses me of using him or he shares all those negative stories and opinions with me. Which makes me sick to my stomach. (stories in regard to people using people, women who cheat their SO, and things related)

So I had enough and I told him to pack his stuff and leave. It was heart breaking. After a while we tried to talk again, because he said he is not ready to break up with me, and honestly neither was I. So I gave him this choice: to change.
To remove all the negative sides, and slowly work on his negative thinking. To stop being mean and pesimistic. To stop hating the world and start doing activities, read meaningful things and invest his time in personal development.

Problem is that asking someone to change is not fair. I feel guilty for doing it and I fear that it will bring frustration in him, because he did it for me. So I asked him to change for himself only, because he is also aware that this negative world of his is putting him down.

Now the questions: Have I done wrong? Can he really change? Should I just let him be who he is and move on?

[Bill3]

If you ask him to change "for himself", he is still doing it because you asked.

Perhaps give him a few months and see if he does change. Don't let him move back in, though, during those few months.

[divine1966]

My ex was this way. He was very negative and cynical. He also constantly had depressing stories about everything. I wasted years of my life ( he had other problems too). In a long run people rarely change unless they really want to. He might benefit from therapy. If he does therapy and works on improving his attitude then you might reconsider. I agree with bill about not letting him to move in at this point

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[ComfortablyNumb5]

Welcome to the forum! I hope you like it here and find support like many others here! Now down to business. I really don't think that love and puppies and happy things are going to change him. No matter how much love there is. And him accusing you of all these things sounds like a form of emotional abuse and an attempt to guilt trip you in order for attention. IMO, if you want any kind of meaningful future with him then he needs professional help if he's not seeking it already. And if he is already then me needs to find a better pdoc or therapist. I say these things because I myself used to be a very negative, self loathing person if I was going through depression. I haven't been like this in years though. I realized how I brought everyone around me down and was just plain miserable to be around. I actually lost a lot of friends and relationships. I didn't stop these negative actions until I got professional help. And yes I was in relationships and had periods of joy with new love but once the honeymoon phase ended, so did my positive thoughts. Before I knew it I was back into my old patterns and often turned to alcohol to stop my thoughts. I would get drunk and do/say redicilous things to try and get love and attention. I don't remember who it was but someone actually went off on me and was like "do you realize how miserable and exhausting you are to be around?!" I imagine this person ditched me soon after.

Now I'm not saying he is a bad person. I'm saying that he needs help. And if he tells you he is all better then he may be lying in fear of losing you or fooling himself for the time. If you really love him and want it to work out then stand by him and encourage him to get help. Let him know he's loved. But if it's effecting your own mental health and bringing you down with him then you may want to rethink the relationship or take a break. No one should have to give up their own sanity in fear of anothers.

[green0cake]

Hello luciazi

He has a personal problem that he needs to deal with himself. I think he needs to fix it first before having you in his life. He will just continually hurt you (unconsciously or not) if he still stays with you. Maybe you can talk about being exclusive to each other still but I suggest in different houses. Though, you may go out once in a while for you to look up his progress.

May be if you tell him the things why you love him, he will be less cynical. Men would change with love and patience.

Originally Posted by divine1966

My ex was this way. He was very negative and cynical. He also constantly had depressing stories about everything. I wasted years of my life ( he had other problems too). In a long run people rarely change unless they really want to. He might benefit from therapy. If he does therapy and works on improving his attitude then you might reconsider. I agree with bill about not letting him to move in at this point

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I don't think anyone likes to be miserable in this life. That's why people who feel so depressed and miserable kill themselves. Some people need love, understanding, and support to consider help for change.

[JustJenny]

Originally Posted by Le.Monsieur.S

I don't think anyone likes to be miserable in this life. That's why people who feel so depressed and miserable kill themselves. Some people need love, understanding, and support to consider help for change.

Sorry, cannot agree with you on this one. When I had my burnout I was miserable, depressed, anxious, very emotional in a negative way, extremely demotivated and I didn't see any point in anything. My husband loves me, understands me and supports me no matter what happens, and guess what? It didn't help at all. I had to seek professional help and now it is up to me to change my outlook on life for the best.

If one relies on the others to make them happy and get them out of their misery - that's a no go. Being happy requires work on oneself. Happiness comes from within. And so does misery.

Originally Posted by JustJenny

Sorry, cannot agree with you on this one. When I had my burnout I was miserable, depressed, anxious, very emotional in a negative way, extremely demotivated and I didn't see any point in anything. My husband loves me, understands me and supports me no matter what happens, and guess what? It didn't help at all. I had to seek professional help and now it is up to me to change my outlook on life for the best.

If one relies on the others to make them happy and get them out of their misery - that's a no go. Being happy requires work on oneself. Happiness comes from within. And so does misery.

I agree, that is why I said "... to consider help" and not "... to change". The final decision is up to the person, but sometimes that person needs a push to seek help.

[luciazi]

Originally Posted by divine1966

My ex was this way. He was very negative and cynical. He also constantly had depressing stories about everything. I wasted years of my life ( he had other problems too). In a long run people rarely change unless they really want to. He might benefit from therapy. If he does therapy and works on improving his attitude then you might reconsider. I agree with bill about not letting him to move in at this point

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Unfortunately, he doesn't believe in therapy. I suggested this a while back and he declined.

[luciazi]

Originally Posted by RxQueen875

Welcome to the forum! I hope you like it here and find support like many others here! Now down to business. I really don't think that love and puppies and happy things are going to change him. No matter how much love there is. And him accusing you of all these things sounds like a form of emotional abuse and an attempt to guilt trip you in order for attention. IMO, if you want any kind of meaningful future with him then he needs professional help if he's not seeking it already. And if he is already then me needs to find a better pdoc or therapist. I say these things because I myself used to be a very negative, self loathing person if I was going through depression. I haven't been like this in years though. I realized how I brought everyone around me down and was just plain miserable to be around. I actually lost a lot of friends and relationships. I didn't stop these negative actions until I got professional help. And yes I was in relationships and had periods of joy with new love but once the honeymoon phase ended, so did my positive thoughts. Before I knew it I was back into my old patterns and often turned to alcohol to stop my thoughts. I would get drunk and do/say redicilous things to try and get love and attention. I don't remember who it was but someone actually went off on me and was like "do you realize how miserable and exhausting you are to be around?!" I imagine this person ditched me soon after.

Now I'm not saying he is a bad person. I'm saying that he needs help. And if he tells you he is all better then he may be lying in fear of losing you or fooling himself for the time. If you really love him and want it to work out then stand by him and encourage him to get help. Let him know he's loved. But if it's effecting your own mental health and bringing you down with him then you may want to rethink the relationship or take a break. No one should have to give up their own sanity in fear of anothers.

He is not looking for any professional help and he is not planning to. After our discussions he said that his plan is to invest his energy in activities, reading about entrepeneurship or something constructive and keeping the negative thoughts away as much as possible.
I did tell him I love him and that the only reason I decided to separate is because it was affecting my sanity and implicitly our relationship and lives, hence we were fighting every other day.
However, just because he said that he is planning to do these things doesn't make me believe it, because this is the second time when he tells me this. The first time he stopped being negative for a day or two and then slowly he returned to doing the same things.

I guess I have to rethink really well, but the problem is I don't feel like letting him go in these difficult moments of his. And also a life without him is an unbearable thought. I really don't know what to do.

[luciazi]

Originally Posted by Le.Monsieur.S

May be if you tell him the things why you love him, he will be less cynical. Men would change with love and patience.

We have these talks actually. HE used to very often ask me why I love him, why I chose him etc. Now we talk not so often about this but we still do.
No matter what I tell him he believes me for a little while. Then he reads that a girl cheated on her BF for 30.000 euro and then he turns to me and question my reasons. And asks me trick questions in order to convince himself if I would cheat on him for some money, too. It is exhausting, really.
I showed him love, complemented him, spent time, proved myself over and over, but I can't keep doing this for the next 10 years. I am 28y old and he is 29. I want to have some peace and build things together...not sleep with one eye opened.

[luciazi]

Originally Posted by green0cake

Hello luciazi

He has a personal problem that he needs to deal with himself. I think he needs to fix it first before having you in his life. He will just continually hurt you (unconsciously or not) if he still stays with you. Maybe you can talk about being exclusive to each other still but I suggest in different houses. Though, you may go out once in a while for you to look up his progress.

I think this is a very good idea. Thank you. We actually saw eachother a bit in order to talk about things. And we check upon eachother every now and then to see how our days are. I definitely want to be exclusive with him, at least until we get to a conclusion if we can save this relationship, or not

[luciazi]

Originally Posted by Le.Monsieur.S

I agree, that is why I said "... to consider help" and not "... to change". The final decision is up to the person, but sometimes that person needs a push to seek help.

He really doesn't want to. He doesn't believe in therapy and he definitely rejects it. What else is left to do?

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Le.Monsieur.S

I don't think anyone likes to be miserable in this life. That's why people who feel so depressed and miserable kill themselves. Some people need love, understanding, and support to consider help for change.

Of course. But they have to want the change. It's like no amount of life and patience would stop alcoholic from drinking. He needs to want it then he will accept help. People who aren't ready for change wouldn't accept help. Love unfortunately doesn't conquer all. It's not that simple.

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[jacky8807]

My opinion (although been there done that wrote the guide) and only my opinion..

He's not going to change ESPECIALLY if you go back to him
Has some deep seated issues that will take much help and growing up to overcome
Also this isn't "give him more love he will heal" it dosent work that way for this kind of person
In a way he is manipulating you so you are always wrapped up in convincing him...so in the end you are always wrapped up in HIM
My opinion : run and find someone who won't need so much control to feel better that they need your constant emotional investment

Originally Posted by divine1966

Of course. But they have to want the change. It's like no amount of life and patience would stop alcoholic from drinking. He needs to want it then he will accept help. People who aren't ready for change wouldn't accept help. Love unfortunately doesn't conquer all. It's not that simple.

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Right, there is a mysterious force in the mind that makes people change, but love and understanding increases the chances of this mysterious force to work, I would say.

For the original poster, just make sure the relationship would return healthy to you, and I would suggest not to compromise your well-being, as love is supposed to make humans happy and better and flourish.

[luciazi]

You are right. And even though I feel better now that he moved away, I feel more relaxed and there is quiet/ no fighting, I know I love him and there is this strong desire of mine to remain by his side whilst he is crossing this period of his life.
I mean I will regret it and I will feel guilty if I leave him now. Life cannot be easy for him, either.

[Rose76]

So did he move out, or are you two still living together?

I think 8 months is not long enough to make the big step of letting someone move in with you.

As far as his negativity: That's who he is. He is not going to change.

[JustJenny]

Originally Posted by Rose76

I think 8 months is not long enough to make the big step of letting someone move in with you.

I moved in with my now-husband 8 months after we started dating. It just felt right. I never regretted that decision.

[venusss]

Pessimistic and cynical are character traits though, not an illness. You either accept him or leave him. Simple as that.

And wub does cure or change people all that much.

To remove all the negative sides, and slowly work on his negative thinking. To stop being mean and pesimistic. To stop hating the world and start doing activities, read meaningful things and invest his time in personal development.

If you are a pessimist, you cannot change into sunshine-and-rainbow person just because somebody asks you too.

He'll like tell you that "pesimist is just a well informed optimist" as I tell people who rat on me for not wearing rosy colored glasses and prefering war movies to love comedies.

It will not work. Leave him, keep him as a friend and find somebody who is optimistic and good natured and cheery. He'll one day come across some dark soul too and both of you will be happy in your own ways.

[divine1966]

Moving in early might not be an issue all in itself. What concerns me though is that he clearly was this way before moving in and before relationship got serious. He didn't all of a sudden became negative. People make decision based on only love thinking that will be enough and then expect their loved ones to change. ( I did just that myself most of my life until things finally changed for me). I think the trick is to find people who we are ok with, without expecting them to change




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[Rose76]

Originally Posted by JustJenny

I moved in with my now-husband 8 months after we started dating. It just felt right. I never regretted that decision.

I'm glad that worked out for you.

The O.P. has been there 5 weeks, and she finds it does not feel right. For her, it was too soon, especially given her lack of experience. Also, it sounds like she kind of got pushed into it. I'm suspicious of why he was in such a hurry.

[luciazi]

Originally Posted by venusss

Pessimistic and cynical are character traits though, not an illness. You either accept him or leave him. Simple as that.

And wub does cure or change people all that much.


If you are a pessimist, you cannot change into sunshine-and-rainbow person just because somebody asks you too.

He'll like tell you that "pesimist is just a well informed optimist" as I tell people who rat on me for not wearing rosy colored glasses and prefering war movies to love comedies.

It will not work. Leave him, keep him as a friend and find somebody who is optimistic and good natured and cheery. He'll one day come across some dark soul too and both of you will be happy in your own ways.

I do understand what you are saying. I am not an optimistic person, either. When asked my friends they described me as 'down to earth realistic'. So I am not waiting for him to change into sunshine and rainbows.
By being negative, I didn't mean necessarily his negative approach on situations, but rather him very often talking about: how women use men and break their hearts, women use men for resources, women are promiscuous until the age of 23 then their clock starts ticking and they search a man to use him, life is not worth living, everybody wants to use him etc. Then the general things like, we don't go to the movies because is crowded, he gets angry for not finding a parking place, despise little children running and playing etc
And then some personal things, such as he will never make children because he will never punish another human being to come to this world, and of course accusations that I use him for emotional resources, material resources, that I am with him because I am older and I cannot compete with younger women for better men.

For me this was difficult. He did not support me financially and I did not chose him because I am old (i was 26-27). I don't think like that.
If you are saying that this general negative attitude is alright and that he should find himself someone like him, ok. Thanks, really.
Maybe I am selfish and I only see my good here. Thanks for your point of view, I will definitely think about it

[luciazi]

Originally Posted by Rose76

So did he move out, or are you two still living together?

I think 8 months is not long enough to make the big step of letting someone move in with you.

As far as his negativity: That's who he is. He is not going to change.

Yes he moved out. But we are still talking and seeing each other to discuss our problems.
Perhaps you are right and we rushed a little bit. But I invited him to move in with me when he had lost his job, he had trouble at home fighting with his parents and I wanted to offer him a steady place to relax and feel better.