[seesaw]

Okay, this is just a vent, and maybe a rhetorical question.

Here's the back story.

Admittedly, I follow a certain Facebook group just to watch the drama and laugh. Occasionally I comment. The admins/mods on this group are super biased, although they pretend they are not. On a couple of occasions, in threads where people are discussing different viewpoints very civilly, this one new mod keeps coming in and telling people to "keep it civil" when literally nothing uncivil has happened, other than sharing disparate viewpoints.

Fast forward. Today a person made a post. And I commented on something in the post, about a law and a lawyer's opinion on the law that was not correct as per the case law, and this new mod chimed in to disagree with me. I responded, making a distinction that what she said was not accurate in my opinion due to a specific distinction. She then argued that I was saying the same thing as her. I said we were not saying the same thing, and that I was trying to make a distinction, which is why I had responded the way I had.

So far, civil, right? Just discussion. Just two different viewpoints. Only like 3 comments.

Okay, so the new mod then tags the other mods/admins into the sub-thread of our comments, then tells me to re-read her first comment and to do it out loud to myself so I will understand, and she adds laughing emojis to her comment. So, to me, that's very condescending, nasty, and rude.

I responded to her that she didn't need to get nasty, and that we were saying different things. She may not understand that I'm saying something different, but I again explained the distinction I was making, and I said, you may disagree with the distinction I'm making, and that's fine. But you don't have to be nasty.

So then another admin, one who is very biased, chimed in, nasty as well, to support the new mod, to tell me I was being obtuse, etc... And that the new mod wasn't being nasty.

Well, thing is, I asked the new mod in the thread, why would you tag in the other admin then say something rude? And she said, because I know when I'm about to get nasty.

So...she tags the other admins so she can be nasty to me, simply because we're disagreeing. Nothing hostile has happened yet, but she wants to get nasty..and yet somehow I'm the passive aggressive one who is being nasty?

They are name calling and all sorts of crap...so whatever, I blocked them and left the group. It was time to go anyhow. I was getting really tired of the high schooler/mean girl mentality. The nature of the group is super immature anyhow.

What's funny is that the mod who came to the defense literally brought this new mod in so they would be less biased and have less hostility, and yet there they were, being super hostile and nasty, and WANTING to be.

I was just trying to have a discussion. And it's very likely the distinction I was making wasn't valid. But it was just discussion. I had no emotional investment in it. I mean, it wasn't even a real situation, just a theoretical.

So, I'm just venting that people literally have to get so nasty and hostile just because they hear something that disagrees with them. I'm not even talking about something that's personal. I get that, on PC, sometimes people get hurt because they need support and a dissenting viewpoint feels invalidating...that's not even what this was. This was literally just debating a point of law and the interpretation of what a phrase meant.

There's no love lost. These people were certainly not friends, and I certainly don't care about them or wish to be associated with them. In fact, I find a lot of what they do highly unethical and immorale. I actually feel sort of bad now for even following their group as long as I have. All they do is "shitlist" people and demand that they defend themselves in what are largely private disputes that are a matter of perspective, happening largely between people online (and mostly immature women, ages 18-25 who have never worked, don't go to school and are the essence of mean girls). They literally just talk behind each others' backs and spread gossip and rumors, and occasionally try to ruin someone life publicly. They make suicide threats and other ****...why I would ever have joined a group run by these sorts of people, who are in no way trustworthy at all...yeah...kinda questioning my own morality and character about this right now.

I think this came out because I'm doing a larger cleansing of stuff in my life lately. Some friends on here have noticed I haven't been around as much, and I'm spending less time on social media in general. It feels a lot healthier. I've been very busy, building my business and the life and future I want for myself. I still love my PC community but can't spend so much time here, and it feels healthier for me to not be so plugged in digitally all the time.

I guess I would just encourage others to remove themselves from friendships or groups that are set up just to tear others down and make sure they invest their time in relationships and communities that are their to build each other up, and resolve issues, versus feeding on the toxicity and drama.

I thought just watching the toxicity and drama would be funny and distracting...and it turned out to be just as bad as participating.

[TishaBuv]

Disconnecting from the toxic drama and becoming healthy is very difficult. You and I come from a toxic drama background and abuse, so that’s the foundation that drives us to stay in it. Good for you for moving forward!

[divine1966]

Yup no need to stick around drama.

[Open Eyes]

Age 18 to 25 is still very immature and tends to be on the dramatic side especially considering in today's world there is SO MUCH drama and "me, me, meeee".

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Age 18 to 25 is still very immature and tends to be on the dramatic side especially considering in today's world there is SO MUCH drama and "me, me, meeee".

I'm not trying to rag on people of that age. This is a specific subset within that age. And honestly is not confined to just that age. Plenty of older ppl still.think they're in high school too.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Disconnecting from the toxic drama and becoming healthy is very difficult. You and I come from a toxic drama background and abuse, so that’s the foundation that drives us to stay in it. Good for you for moving forward!

Well, I don't feel driven to stay in it. But yes, for some.reason I allowed it in my life evn though I disliked it. Today it became very clear.for me and was an easy break. So.leaving it isn't difficult, for.me, just the recognizing it's time to leave.

[divine1966]

I can’t get over women 18-25 don’t work and dont go to school. Must be nice. What is that they do? Stay at home moms? With newborn infants? Did they win a lottery? Who doesn’t go to school or work at that age? I know a lot of young people. It doesn’t seem common. And I am curious how they debate about the law. If they don’t go to school and don’t work, where they get the knowledge about the law? Geez. They need to get their lives together, not debate online

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I can’t get over women 18-25 don’t work and dont go to school. Must be nice. What is that they do? Stay at home moms? With newborn infants? Did they win a lottery? Who doesn’t go to school or work at that age? I know a lot of young people. It doesn’t seem common. And I am curious how they debate about the law. If they don’t go to school and don’t work, where they get the knowledge about the law? Geez. They need to get their lives together, not debate online

Many of them cannot work due to disability. The law they debate is the ADA or FHA or ACAA. Or things like breed specific legislation. The problem is not their understanding of those laws, however. It's quite often when they start to use words interchangeably, not realizing that words have distinct definitions. For example, today it was the idea that the word discrimination does not equal exclusion and vice versa. Being excluded does not mean it is discrimination, not just purely by definition. Not to say that by excluding something or someone you could also be discriminating something, but the nuance that they are not exclusive, well, they can't grasp that. And this is a group that often has trouble understanding that words have distinct definitions and don't just mean whatever they want a word to mean.

And then what's fun is they try to tell me I have poor reading comprehension...which is just super funny...considering those of you who know my professional background and education...Telling me I don't read well is akin to telling a supreme court justice they don't know the Bill of Rights...(not that I'm on par with a supreme court justice, but I'm not going to play like I'm not a skilled writer or good at what I do.)

So, it's unfortunate that their circumstances won't allow them to work or go to school, although some of them do work part-time or do go to school...but this is what they bring to the table...I don't know if it's a factor of education or simply maturity, to be able to hold discourse about something without resorting to name-calling or nastiness simply because you don't understand what the other person is saying.

Honestly, I probably could have de-escalated it, but it was somehow cathartic and eye-opening, sort of like TishaBuv was saying, really finally seeing what I was being a party to, and just realizing I had to cut the cord, and end it.

Even if they are unable to work or go to school due to their disabilities, they could put their time to more productive causes than running Facebook groups in which they tear people down.

The only thing I'm considering is whether or not to report the group for bullying. I sort of want to. Because that's literally the only reason they exist.

Seesaw

[seesaw]

Just adding this...I was also starting to become uncomfortable because, and maybe a lot of people in the FB group knew this already, but a lot of the people joining the group or in the group and being referred to as "advocates" (which actually in our group means someone who has gone through a specific training to mediate on the law) and as leaders in the community were these very volatile young people that it turned out were all minors, under 18. Some of them barely teenagers. And, btw, the people in this group had no problem going after these kids and bullying them.

The more I think about it, the more I'm asking myself, why was I ever following this page? I certainly did not know the group make-up when I joined it. But furthermore, why did I join a page that was clearly in existence to bully people? I mean, I know they put this veil on it that it's an opportunity to call people in our community out publicly, but it's a private page, so why is that necessary? If you have a dispute with someone, contact them privately to resolve it or block them on social media. Or if it's something so bad, like you bought something and it was a bad product and they won't refund your money, then give them a bad review, dispute it on your credit card, and post it publicly on your own page that it was a bad product. Why does anyone need to "shitlist" them on a private page with others? Isn't this just the live version of the burn book from Mean Girls? Isn't this just gossip at it's very worst, using social media to amplify it?

The more I think of it, the more I'm ashamed at my own actions for even being a part of this group, in whatever capacity I was there as - albeit not very active or engaged, and fairly disgusted with the people who would create such a page.

[TishaBuv]

I take it this group was about therapy dogs, as you mention breeds (and I doubt it was white supremacy, jk). You are passionate about the cause and innocently joined the group, IMHO.

But you say it’s fun how they wrongly put you down. That’s never fun for me. Why did you find that fun? Maybe having a fight is giving you adrenaline that feeds something in a negative way that you don’t even realize.

I suggest you don’t report them and just learn and move on. Disengage from toxic drama.

[divine1966]

Oh they can’t work due to disability, my bad, I didn’t realize that but it doesn’t mean it’s ok for them to bully people. They might have cognitive disabilities and don’t fully comprehend meanings of some words but again it isn’t ok to bully others. Not sure what kind of group this is but someone might have to be alerted about what’s going on.

Don’t beat yourself up though as none of it is your fault and you weren’t the one bullying others.

There is a lot of crap going on the internet that is very immature. I do have an idea about how immature that group may be, but I believe there are even more websites out there like Encyclopedia Dramatica (which I was a part of...) I am younger than even the 'immature age group' you mentioned (not to say I am normal) but I have a fair bit of maturity. People can come from all sorts of psychological background, yes.


You need to stop blaming yourself, mistakes happen, we all are flawed and none of us is perfect in everything. Stop blaming yourself. Those people had a bad mentality and you were accidentally a part of their worthless FB group, that's it.

I am also an aspiring writer. Sometimes I think about writing but it'd be equally foolish to be a writer because I'd be a failure at becoming a scientist because of my malformed brain. So I'd write and nobody'd read because of my disability. Anyway, I praise you for efforts to be a writer, your wording does tell your hard work here. Even I am not that formal while writing here.

[seesaw]

That was sarcasm, Tisha. Obviously it wasn't fun.

It's a group about service dogs. Therapy dogs are a completely different thing.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I take it this group was about therapy dogs, as you mention breeds (and I doubt it was white supremacy, jk). You are passionate about the cause and innocently joined the group, IMHO.

But you say it’s fun how they wrongly put you down. That’s never fun for me. Why did you find that fun? Maybe having a fight is giving you adrenaline that feeds something in a negative way that you don’t even realize.

I suggest you don’t report them and just learn and move on. Disengage from toxic drama.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Oh they can’t work due to disability, my bad, I didn’t realize that but it doesn’t mean it’s ok for them to bully people. They might have cognitive disabilities and don’t fully comprehend meanings of some words but again it isn’t ok to bully others. Not sure what kind of group this is but someone might have to be alerted about what’s going on.

Don’t beat yourself up though as none of it is your fault and you weren’t the one bullying others.

Cognitive disability still doesn't change what words mean. However, no, most of them do not.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by TheLonelyChemist

There is a lot of crap going on the internet that is very immature. I do have an idea about how immature that group may be, but I believe there are even more websites out there like Encyclopedia Dramatica (which I was a part of...) I am younger than even the 'immature age group' you mentioned (not to say I am normal) but I have a fair bit of maturity. People can come from all sorts of psychological background, yes.


You need to stop blaming yourself, mistakes happen, we all are flawed and none of us is perfect in everything. Stop blaming yourself. Those people had a bad mentality and you were accidentally a part of their worthless FB group, that's it.

I am also an aspiring writer. Sometimes I think about writing but it'd be equally foolish to be a writer because I'd be a failure at becoming a scientist because of my malformed brain. So I'd write and nobody'd read because of my disability. Anyway, I praise you for efforts to be a writer, your wording does tell your hard work here. Even I am not that formal while writing here.

Thanks, Lonely. I would rephrase though...it's not my efforts to be a writer. I am a professional writer and editor, have a long career as such. So I'm not trying to be a writer. I am a professional writer.

Certainly, as I suspect you do, I aspire to continue to always improve my skills. But my point is, I'm not just starting out. I'm published, and I mentor and train/teach other writers in my field.

I agree that age is not really the issue. The internet just seems to be a place where people can be immature and bully others.

I'm not super beating myself up about joining the group. I'm just doing some introspection about why this didn't set off my ******** and bullying meter sooner.

I think it's really sad to think how much wasted energy goes into this group, when these people could probably spend that energy doing actual good for their cause.

Oh well...

Good for you for exiting the toxic drama from your FB group. No need for that, as you already know and recognize. I'm proud of you for disengaging from the crap you don't need. That's very healthy.

Originally Posted by seesaw

Thanks, Lonely. I would rephrase though...it's not my efforts to be a writer. I am a professional writer and editor, have a long career as such. So I'm not trying to be a writer. I am a professional writer.

Certainly, as I suspect you do, I aspire to continue to always improve my skills. But my point is, I'm not just starting out. I'm published, and I mentor and train/teach other writers in my field.

I agree that age is not really the issue. The internet just seems to be a place where people can be immature and bully others.

I'm not super beating myself up about joining the group. I'm just doing some introspection about why this didn't set off my ******** and bullying meter sooner.

I think it's really sad to think how much wasted energy goes into this group, when these people could probably spend that energy doing actual good for their cause.

Oh well...

Ah, so I am seeing myself in everyone lol.

I am glad that you're a successful writer. What is your field?

[divine1966]

A friend of mine has a therapy dog and is very involved with organization. It’s her pet peeve how people are confused on difference between service or therapy or emotional support dogs. Not the same thing but it’s ok to be confused. The issue is that people argue about it like they know. It always baffles her. Annoying.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by divine1966

A friend of mine has a therapy dog and is very involved with organization. It’s her pet peeve how people are confused on difference between service or therapy or emotional support dogs. Not the same thing but it’s ok to be confused. The issue is that people argue about it like they know. It always baffles her. Annoying.

Oh yes, I don't mind that people are not aware of the difference, it's when they try and argue that they are right, and have never actually read the law or owned one, etc.

It also does differ from country to country. So in other countries, they can be referred to by different names. But here in the US, what I said earlier is the definition.

[eskielover]

I grew up around a dad who would argue about things he knew nothing about & never even read anything about & his arguments were based only on his WRONG opinions. Even as a young kid I realized this & it embarrassed me so badly I learned from that never to discuss opinions as facts & it kept me from even discussing anything for most of my growing up years....(I just listened a lot) But it also kept my parents from having any REAL friends or socializing because no one wanted to include them unless they absolutely had to.

I honestly thought it was caused by my dad's lack of education when I was growing up until I ended up marrying an EDUCATED version of my dad. After spending 54 years if my life around that, I now refuse to even engage with people like though it can take some time to realize that is actually the way they are. Sometimes it is more obvious than others. Even though I have made sure I have educated myself & am now capable if engaging in normal conversations without the fear I had of sounding like my dad or my almost-X H I am still VERY careful.

It is difficult not engaging with someone you know is wrong because there seems to be an instinctual desire to educate with the facts no matter how incapable they are of learning or comprehending or even desiring to know those facts. When I realized this was when I learned it was a waste of time & energy to even engage with people like that but learning the control to disengage can be tricky too especially if we were used to engaging with people like that throughout our lives.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I grew up around a dad who would argue about things he knew nothing about & never even read anything about & his arguments were based only on his WRONG opinions. Even as a young kid I realized this & it embarrassed me so badly I learned from that never to discuss opinions as facts & it kept me from even discussing anything for most of my growing up years....(I just listened a lot) But it also kept my parents from having any REAL friends or socializing because no one wanted to include them unless they absolutely had to.

I honestly thought it was caused by my dad's lack of education when I was growing up until I ended up marrying an EDUCATED version of my dad. After spending 54 years if my life around that, I now refuse to even engage with people like though it can take some time to realize that is actually the way they are. Sometimes it is more obvious than others. Even though I have made sure I have educated myself & am now capable if engaging in normal conversations without the fear I had of sounding like my dad or my almost-X H I am still VERY careful.

It is difficult not engaging with someone you know is wrong because there seems to be an instinctual desire to educate with the facts no matter how incapable they are of learning or comprehending or even desiring to know those facts. When I realized this was when I learned it was a waste of time & energy to even engage with people like that but learning the control to disengage can be tricky too especially if we were used to engaging with people like that throughout our lives.

Definitely an excellent insight, Eskie. IN this case, it wasn't about fact vs. opinion or anything, it was just discussion. And because we disagreed, it had be nasty...I don't get that. Why must we be nasty because we disagree? You do you, I'll do me. That's fine.

[Marielle]

Originally Posted by seesaw

I guess I would just encourage others to remove themselves from friendships or groups that are set up just to tear others down and make sure they invest their time in relationships and communities that are their to build each other up, and resolve issues, versus feeding on the toxicity and drama.

Well said! This is what I am trying to do at my job, which is chock full of drama. There are a lot of large but fragile egos,l and a lot of catty behaviors, and more than once I have likened working there with working in a high school girls' locker room.

Breathe...

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by seesaw

Definitely an excellent insight, Eskie. IN this case, it wasn't about fact vs. opinion or anything, it was just discussion. And because we disagreed, it had be nasty...I don't get that. Why must we be nasty because we disagree? You do you, I'll do me. That's fine.

Sometimes even discussions have fact verses opinion involved in them & even in discussions some people feel that their point of view is the only one that is right & get very defensive (nasty) about it when they are disagreed with.

Lol....one time our hot water heater went out & I had called my mom about it because we weren't in a good place financially to deal with it. Discussing hot water heaters. My mom got wierd & hung up on me. We ended up going to Lowe's & buying the cheapest water heater & paid for it over time (no interest)...my mom got over herself & called back a few days later & said...."I've been thinking about the water heater....." I nicely said we already took care or it.....end if discussion. But I learned growing up that even in discussions fact vs opinion can be goinf on under the discussion & can still be a cause of discussion problems especially when there is one side of the discussion that has a serious need to be right & becomes defensive about it.

Definitely better not to be a part of discussions lime that as you have found out....experiences like this will help you become aware if situations like this earlier on & avoid them sooner....it is a learning process because many times we iften think "what can it hurt to just hang around without really getting involved (until the one time we get sucked into involvement). Sometimes experiences ars the best way to learn.

[chrissyh23]

I think we all allow ourselves to be incorporated in some type of drama for different reasons. It's definitely uplifting when decide to free ourselves from it.
Having a discussion with an individual or group should be educational not nasty. There are too many people who see things in only black and white. They never acknowledge the many many shades if grey around them. They are sometimes ignorant to someone else's opinion or view on something because it isn't theirs. I find that very sad. It stunts their ability to grow an individual's. While I have my own opinions and views on things I definitely welcome someone's that is I'm like my own. It makes me think from another point of view and at least appreciate another's perspective. It's truly sad that we all can't appreciate someone else's stance on something. To me it just shows a person's true arrogance and ignorance towards life and people.