[Albatross2008]

"Relationships" seems to be the place to put this, although I'm being general. It's about whether gender differences are or aren't stereotypes. I'm hoping the discussion will be lively and civil. If I say something that is inaccurate, I hope to be corrected rather than yelled at. I'd be glad for the education.

This came up in my Facebook feed. I commented where it was posted, and also on my home page, and nobody's touched it. I hope that doesn't mean they're afraid of the topic.


I replied, "Beautiful cat. But this does bring up another stereotype, and being a hopeless nerd, I'll address it. Why does 'manly' have to mean looking angry?"

I've seen it before, this supposed connection between masculinity and anger. Even when I was a child drawing for fun, I usually drew women. If I wanted to draw a man, I drew him with a scowling face and heavy browlines to show that it wasn't a woman. I was only around ten years old at the time, so I hope you'll give me a break.

I don't think I'm alone in that thinking. Compare this stylized drawing of a bull


with this stylized drawing of a cow.


Doesn't the bull look inherently angry? I tried to choose two drawings in as close to the same style as possible. Bulls in art are often portrayed as being angry and aggressive. Even when they're smiling, as shown here:


Where did the idea come from that masculinity equals aggression?

[mote.of.soul]

Maybe it comes from the idea that down through the ages masculinity is related to being the warrior, the fighter? Physically competitive? For which, I assume, a certain level of angry energy is required. The caveman mentality. Ready to knock anybody over the head with a club. Like in that Kenny Rogers song where he says, "Sometimes you gotta fight when you're a man" - which isn't really about being the sensitive intellectual type, but more about being masculine = angry, violent! Haha.

It's a good question...

[divine1966]

According to some studies (and I post a link below to one of the articles) men and women are angry just the same (and some would say women are actually angrier!) , but men are more aggressive (outwardly expressing anger).

Some of if likely due to men historically having to fight for things/compete/defend themselves/present themselves certain way. And some of is just biology/hormones etc Even though of course there are ton of stereotyping re gender differences, there are gender differences biologically speaking

Also there is a difference between anger as feeling and aggression as expression of it. And there might be a stereotype at play. Angry woman might not appear so to public as she’d try to adhere to stereotype of having to appear feminine. Angry man would often demonstrate his anger in aggressive manner as there is no problem for a man to appear angry.

As about bulls and cows lol bulls actually are often very aggressive. Cows could be as well but not as often.

Are Men Angrier than Women? | Psychology Today

[sarahsweets]

Why does is seem like women who take back their power, or empower themselves they are angry?

[s4ndm4n2006]

I honestly don't think the guy's expression in the picture is in any way supposed to imply masculinity. In fact if I saw that pic myself without the post it wouldn't have even crossed my mind.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Why does is seem like women who take back their power, or empower themselves they are angry?

Who does it seem to? Lots of people get angry but it’s nothing to do with empowerment. I am empowered, but when I get angry over random stuff, it isn’t related to my empowerment

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

I honestly don't think the guy's expression in the picture is in any way supposed to imply masculinity. In fact if I saw that pic myself without the post it wouldn't have even crossed my mind.

I think he makes exaggerated (funny) angry face because he is angry that someone said having a cat makes him less masculine

Cats are freaking awesome IDGAF how unmanly people think I am for liking them.

If anybody has a problem with me liking cats I would show them my masculinity with my actions

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Who does it seem to? Lots of people get angry but it’s nothing to do with empowerment. I am empowered, but when I get angry over random stuff, it isn’t related to my empowerment

I needed to edit this. I meant why do "people" (not me) see women as angry when they are maybe really empowering themselves?

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I needed to edit this. I meant why do "people" (not me) see women as angry when they are maybe really empowering themselves?

because there are many women who under the guise of empowerment are very aggressive and filled with anger. Now take note I did not say women who empower themselves. That can be done without the anger. The thing is there is a number of so called "empowered" women who call themselves empowered and use this as an excuse to show their anger which it really is. Whether justified anger or not, they typically are very outspoken about their beliefs.

Not that people should assume this is what an empowered female is like, but the tendency is the loudest and most outspoken are the ones that people will associate with a certain behavior, type of person, group, etc.

They are noticed because they are loud and outspoken while the many silently strong women out there aren't.

[Quarter life]

Real Men wear Pink...and have pet rabbits named PawPaw.
Real Women Fly Jets....and drink Full Strength Beer.

And Vice Versa

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I needed to edit this. I meant why do "people" (not me) see women as angry when they are maybe really empowering themselves?

Who are these people though who think that? Yes some women are just empowering themselves and might appear angry and some are just plain angry. And some are empowered yet aren’t angry. I’d not generalize.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

because there are many women who under the guise of empowerment are very aggressive and filled with anger. Now take note I did not say women who empower themselves. That can be done without the anger. The thing is there is a number of so called "empowered" women who call themselves empowered and use this as an excuse to show their anger which it really is. Whether justified anger or not, they typically are very outspoken about their beliefs.

Not that people should assume this is what an empowered female is like, but the tendency is the loudest and most outspoken are the ones that people will associate with a certain behavior, type of person, group, etc.

They are noticed because they are loud and outspoken while the many silently strong women out there aren't.

I actually know a very angry woman who claims to be “empowered”. She didn’t work a day in her life and never accomplished anything, lives off food stamps and spousal support after years of abusing her ex-husband. Her own kids have nothing to do with her. She spends her days smoking pot and getting into fights with people, verbal and physical (she physically assaulted her daughter before the estrangement). She posts all over the internet how she is “empowered woman” and some other bizarre stuff. No kidding.

Originally Posted by divine1966

I actually know a very angry woman who claims to be “empowered”. She didn’t work a day in her life and never accomplished anything, lives off food stamps and spousal support after years of abusing her ex-husband. Her own kids have nothing to do with her. She spends her days smoking pot and getting into fights with people, verbal and physical (she physically assaulted her daughter before the estrangement). She posts all over the internet how she is “empowered woman” and some other bizarre stuff. No kidding.

Dang lol sounds kinda like my mother before she passed away. Once her health started declining, none of her "friends" wanted anything to do with her. Imagine that.

But yeah, if somebody is truly empowered, they wouldn't need to be so angry and aggressive all the time. This goes for both women and men.

[Albatross2008]

I appreciate the responses so far.

My husband is a definite cat lover. There is nothing he won't do to help a cat. Me, I love dogs and cats equally, but he prefers cats, so that's what we have.

He says he does hear that stereotype now and then. Not only being a cat lover, but also that he likes to cook and couldn't care less about watching sports. All of these things are somehow supposed to make him less manly. But he's the last person to give a hoot what other people think of him.

As for the anger, it's been my experience, growing up mostly in the Southern US during the 1960's and 1970's, that men are *allowed* to get angry while women are expected to be "ladylike," whatever that is. Another stereotyped image comes to my mind. Picture a child or teenager who has done wrong, and is being confronted by his/her parents. In this (fictional yet common) scenario, typically the father is going to be speaking sternly, and the mother is going to be speaking in a more gentle, pleading tone. If the roles were reversed, if the mother were speaking harshly while the father is quiet, then she's going to be seen as a shrew, and he's being more reasonable.

Originally Posted by Arbie

I appreciate the responses so far.

My husband is a definite cat lover. There is nothing he won't do to help a cat. Me, I love dogs and cats equally, but he prefers cats, so that's what we have.

Same here. Prefer cats and find watching sports boring. I'm also not much of a car person. Prefer playing video games and reading over sports and partying.

I get a lot of crap for being this way in the southern U.S myself but I've learned to deal with being a societal outcast at this point.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Who are these people though who think that? Yes some women are just empowering themselves and might appear angry and some are just plain angry. And some are empowered yet aren’t angry. I’d not generalize.

I guess I was too general or not general enough? I guess what I mean is "people" not specific, more like...society? Or maybe to go out on a limb patriarchy? Its so hard to explain myself. There is a subset of women who are really angry and make it really different to hear their message(which they say is about empowering women) because they are so angry. Then there are women who one day decide they have had enough with the harassment they have at work and report it-only to have coworkers (male) act like they are just another bitter angry woman who is upset she didnt get a promotion or something like that. There is a situation here in NJ with our new Governer. One of his staffers or campaign workers was raped during the campaign. She decided to talk to the campaign heads, and then when that didnt work she went up the chain. She chose not to report it I think because of the sensitive nature of it and because she was maybe protecting the campaign. Turns out that her reports never made it past the first people, the Governer was never told and the guy who did it received a high level promotion in the Governers's staff. She talked to the police and they found her story credible and she has moved forward. Now the ***** hit the fan and its public. Yesterday the news stated she had filed a notice that she was going to sue. After that rumors and crap going around are making her out to be this bitter, angry, ungrateful woman. Ignoring the fact that she kept quiet and didnt even involve the police(i personally would have started with them). Ignoring the fact that she tried going through the chain of command, didnt immediately lawyer up, tried to deal with it behind the scenes. I am not saying she should have gone that way but after all that only now are people treating her like crap. So when I said "people " it was more of a general label, but this is just one example of what I was trying to infer.