public abuse

The father of my children did this; he treated me atrociously in public. In private it was even worse.

We were treated this weekend camping to a public display of terrible emotional and verbal abuse. Lots of swearing at the wife and family and belittling them for all the campground to see and hear. All I thought about was if this was how this husband and father treated his family in public, how much worse did he do so in private?

It was agonising hearing this. My husband wanted to march into the campsite to tell the man to stop but, with him being half the size of the other I begged him not to do so.

I feel very badly though for just sitting by and doing nothing while his family cowered beneath his threats. Even the dog got it. I don't know what I could have done differently.

Was it anything that warranted calling law enforcement? Look up his license plate and call child protective services?not sure what else? Confronting him yourself would be too dangerous. It’s terrible. Abusers do like to do such things in public on purpose to humiliate their victims. What an awful person.

you can call pd , campground management, or lodge a complaint with child services. to do nothing except being upset does not help the situation...if you get a chance & the wife is alone, grab a chance to speak to her and ask if there is anything she needs...any help, is she ok? does she need a ride? each state, county etc, offers safe homes for women & children in abusive situations. there are actions that be done to stop the abuse.

and like I mentions, call police. if it is bad they will arrest him & hold him until he is sober (if that's an issue) or until family is safe. some states require a hold once a call is made regardless of what family says. if offers a period of space to make some plans and breathing room. there are options for victims of domestic abuse, all it takes is someone to start the ball rolling...by not watching and doing nothing

I'm not sure how the cops work in cases like these, but I think this would at least be a "disturbing the peace" issue. I can see how one might have reservations about calling them, though. They'd probably tell the husband to settle down, and he might've quieted down in public, only to save all his pent up anger for his family in private.

Alternatively, you could've distracted the husband, and then slipped the wife a number for a DV shelter. Then she would have the chance to get herself and the kids and the dog to safety before the cops were called.

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to do nothing except being upset does not help the situation...

Since when is it her job to do something about the situation? She is upset because she can see and hear a terrible family fight. Calling campground security or the rangers or cops is a good idea if that is how volatile the situation was. People that get that rageful in public will not take kindly to bystanders getting involved and bystanders shouldnt. Do you know that the most dangerous calls to respond to as a cop are domestic violence/dispute/altercations? There is a great chance of violence and even more rage. Now imagine a couple that is camping trying to diffuse this?

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all it takes is someone to start the ball rolling...by not watching and doing nothing

I totally get your passion in this matter but she and her husband are not the ones to intervene. They have no training and compassion will not save you from getting a beat-down or worse. Getting the authorities involved is a must but IMO that is all. Watch from a distance because then you are a witness.

it is her job to do something if she writes here that she is upset and bothered by it. no where did I say jump right into the middle of the incident and break it up. by all means be smart and be safe. when she is alone is a time to approach if possible.

I feel also that is you see a situation that you feel is dangerous and volatile then by all means rather then sitting and watching it escalate and later after perhaps there is great injury or death saying "gee I wish I could have done something" you did.

if you saw someone harming a child would you watch, or act? pray it got better? here's a tidbit...it doesn't. take it from an ex cop. I did not say for them to physically intervene in the middle of the episode, I said when the wife was alone and safe, or to contact local pd or campground staff.

and yes as a federal law enforcement officer for over 18 years I am very aware of the dangers presented by domestic abuse calls. been there, many many times. but thank you for that information.

OP posted and said/asked (maybe rhetorically) what could she do. So the discussion started in what could be done/what’s safer ways/what can’t be done and so on. No one says it’s her job. And no one says she should go and fight them. But do you not want people to respond at all?

I appreciate your sense of justice but it’s becoming stressful to even post anything out of fear of being reprimanded for posting answering the OP.

I have been treated horribly in public by my older sister and no one stopped her but instead was intimidated by her.

It's interesting reading the advice of not saying anything. I wish someone had when I experienced it, at least made a note of it somewhere so I would be able to have written proof instead of people too afraid to say anything leaving me basically alone to deal with it which continued to occur to me that continued to be toxic.

In my experience when someone behaves badly like this people are too afraid to say anything or even choose to blame the victim instead of the person who is acting out so badly.

First of all divine I am so sorry if I make you feel this way. I truly am. I’ll write more in a bit.

This. It's quite a bit different when one is actually in the situation and expected to take action. And it isn't merely fear of one's own safety, but also a general feeling of powerlessness and self-doubt. What if I made the wrong call? What if I approached the wife, and then the husband found out, got angry, and took his anger out on his wife? What if the cops only gave him a "stern talking to," and it provoked his wrath?

When I was in high school, there were two DV calls to the house next door, one of which my parents made. My mom and a couple of other people have tried talking to the wife, offering her advice or help. The wife never left, and jail time only seemed to anger the husband.

I'm not saying one shouldn't try to help, but it's a delicate matter and should be handled with care.

kitty Genovese.

In the early hours of March 13, 1964, 28-year-old Kitty Genovese was stabbed outside the apartment building across the street from where she lived in an apartment above a row of shops on Austin street in Kew Gardens, Queens, a borough of New York City. Two weeks after the murder, The New York Times[4] published an article claiming that 38 witnesses saw or heard the attack, but none of them called the police or came to her aid.[5]
The incident prompted inquiries into what became known as the bystander effect or "Genovese syndrome",[6] and the murder became a staple of American psychology textbooks for the next four decades.

see something , do nothing....really?
you see an incident of danger to a minor, or woman and do nothing figuring maybe someone else will act, or you don't want to get involved but like you no one else does anything. should have, would have , could have. can't fix something if you don't act.

no one is saying jump in and break it up. go to the office and make a complaint. call 911.
people get hurt and if it is bad enough in a campground you can bet it is much worse at home. and it will be if no one reacts.

The Kitty Genovese story is mostly a work of fiction. The murder was true, but the accounts of nearly 40 eye-witnesses sitting by and doing nothing was completely made up. Psychology's tall tales

Let me put it this way: Domestic violence is a complex and dangerous situation for everyone involved, and yes, something should be done, but you could very easily make the situation worse if you have no idea what you're doing.

You're a cop, so you should be able to enlighten us on this matter. OP stated that the situation was only swearing and shouting. There was no evidence of physical violence. Could anything have been done legally? What if the wife didn't press charges?

In the case of my neighbor, there was evidence of physical violence, but the police couldn't do anything because she refused to press charges. What does one do in that case?

years ago I lived in a rough area. My neighbor was screaming at his wife’s grandma in the yard. Grandma ran inside and he followed. He wasn’t physically violent.

I called the police and when they arrived After the trial his wife thanked me for not saying nothing nasty about him beyond what I saw. Jeez. He was a good neighbor and always nice to me. I was afraid if he ever gets out of prison he’ll come after me. But we have moved overseas few years after. Who knows if he ever got out.

I call the police every time I hear or see domestic violence. Maybe they won’t press charges but maybe someone won’t be found dead because I call.

I am also mandated reporter. If I can’t confront there if it’s too dangerous or police doesn’t seem right I call CPS. I have many stories of kids saved from situations etc physical violence etc just because I or someone else had a gut feeling that things aren’t right.

Brutal. Yeah, it's a good thing you called in that case.

I never really knew when to call the cops and when not to, unless the victim straight-up asked me to call. The few times I've consulted the police, however, they haven't done jack ****, so maybe I'm a little biased (personality disorder notwithstanding).

yes plenty could have been done...was there drinking? was he sober? if officers on scene found people to be at risk then the situation changes. in some states once law enforcement is called the antagonist spends time overnight at least. period. end of story.....if nothing else they read the riot axct to those involved and can remove him to some place else.

kitty Genovese reaction story may not have been totally true (it was considered such for years and is still used as a response reaction) but the situation and actions ring true. it did here...there was a situation and nothing was done. people freeze and don't act because they don't want to get involved..and then they worry about the situation. see something. do something. period. pd can't fix something they don't know anything about.

no harm in calling. better to call. would rather have responded and have it be a small situation easily remedied then respond to a death call later.

don't wait fort a victim to tell you to call..that may not happen...you be the call.

All right, I'll call next time and see what happens.

Or I'll make someone else do it.

When I first called, they said it’s a domestic dispute and grandma should call herself and they refused to come. I had to call again because I had a bad feeling, then they finally come. If they came faster, they’d likely save grandpa

If one is not sure what to do, the best is to call and ask what police thinks is the best course of action. Same with CPS. Just call and ask

Okay, I know this is veering off topic, but I seriously have a deeply ingrained hatred for the cops. A friend of mine in college went to the cops after she had been at a party where there were multiple witnesses. The other partiers were actually the ones to pull him off. The cops took her to the station, blamed her for getting drunk, and then talked her out of pressing charges because they didn't want to get the poor expelled.

And worse, the guy found out about her going to the cops, and then he threatened her. She was too afraid to go to the cops again since they didn't do anything the first time.

Now, to be clear, I'm sure there are good officers of the law who will do their jobs to the best of their abilities. But this hasn't been my experience.

I agree. Don't confront but call the authorities if that's what you would want others to do if you were in the same situation. It's better to be safe than sorry and regret not calling for the rest of your life.

I would like to apologize to @resurgam and @Divine. Resurgam: I think what happened was I missed your point. I thought you were chastizing the OP about not doing something as if it was her fault and I missed the point about her wanting suggestions. In fact I think I glossed over the part about her wanting suggestions and went right to my gut and shot from the hip so I am truly sorry. Divine: I am really sorry I made you feel this way and I certainly do not want you to think I would go off on you for posting whatever you want. I think somehow I was triggered and I will have to self examine about why that happened. @resurgam: You are right. I would say something. In fact I would be the dummy who would say something and get involved before getting the authorities so I do not know why I acted the way I did. I have gotten involved before and had someone threaten me and maybe thats why I reacted that way. @Divine, I hope you accept my apology.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr I’m sending hugs

no harm, no foul, no problem! thank you for the apology!

theoretical, I am sorry you have had a bad experience with law enforcement. you are right not all cops are bad ones, most in fact are honest , hard working officers who want the most safest, positive response to their calls. not all would respond the way those officers did..

police officers take an oath to protect and serve. it's a shame you don't have faith in them, someday you might need to call for help and I would like to think in doing so the response team you get will be on top of their game.

I wonder when that incident happened...if it was recently or years back. I find it hard to believe that given the rape laws now any department would respond in that manner...a college police force years ago, maybe. (there are plenty of "urban myths" like that..NOT saying your friends incident was).

no one should ever feel they can not report an assault . no one. ever. it should be professionally handled and investigated to the fullest.

Not saying that the person who said that police encouraged her not to press charges was lying, but if no one was there who really knows what was said. Sounds fishy to me. But I wasn’t there so I don’t know. I had some strange things said to me by the police but that wasn’t in
North America. I never had a single issue with US law enforcement.

There are lots of people who hate teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers etc Usually helping professions. Government/state/county professions. Most of the time not because they had bad experience themselves but because of made up or exaggerated stories they heard or incorrect assumptions. Not saying anyone on here does that, but irl people do.

It’s a shame if people don’t report crime because they distrust authorities.

It was five years back. I'm not sure how quickly police departments change their policies, nor how quickly police officers change their perspectives on rape victims, but memories don't fade that easily. But hey, maybe *counts fingers* ... sixth time will be the charm?

To be clear, that's five different times I've had dealings with the cops of my own volition for various different reasons, one of which involved a rape, and two of which were the DV calls on my neighbors that I mentioned previously. I don't necessarily blame the cops in the DV case because there's nothing they really could've done short of making sure he didn't kill her that night. It isn't their job to play therapist to some belligerent loser. Nonetheless, the husband still shortly after getting out of jail, and nothing really changed. Eventually, people stopped calling, knowing it would only make it worse in the long run.

I think, like with divine's case, the cops are a useful tool to stop the worst case scenario (or punish the perp after the fact). But I think subtlety is preferred when it hasn't quite reached that level. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, one could provide information on DV shelters or CPS to the wife while the husband isn't looking. That puts the power in her hands and allows her the chance to exit with the kids safely and quietly.