[sarahsweets]

I apologize for the length of this but it requires a lot of detail. I have a situation that has been a thing for years. My brother S is gay. We always knew it and he came out to me when he was about 16.(he is 14 years younger) I think part of making it easier to come out was because my best friend in the whole world is gay and was very open and up front and out and proud about his sexuality. I met my best friend in college. I had returned after having my son and my friend is 3 years younger than me. My son was 2 so I have been friends with him for 21 years. Everyone talks about their best friends being there for them but he truly has been. He is a part of our family. He was there for the birth of my daughter and is her godfather. I know his family. We have both had our ups and downs with things but never a fight where we didnt speak.

So anyway he is what I think helped my brother feel more secure. My brother had been communicating with him on his own.

Possible trigger:

My brother has a brown belt in karate. When he was about 16 and struggling with his sexuality and a terrible father his karate teacher assaulted him. I say assaulted because my brother was a minor, there was a power imbalance and threats to harm his family. I feel honestly that this sick man knew my brother's troubles and struggles and forcibly"coerced" him into a sexual something. I was never told the exact details.

I didn't find out about this right away. He did confide in my friend. About 10 years ago my friend and brother and I were next door at my neighbor's house for a late night get together. They are very, very down to earth, blunt, ball busting friends. We always laugh. When I was not at the table my brother S said that my friend C made references to the situation with the karate teacher. It was implied that he may have suggested the relationship was somehow consensual or that it was common knowledge amongst my neighbors when it was not. My brother left. He didnt say anything to me about this happening until 2 years or so after if had occurred. When he told me I felt terrible. He told me this on the weekend we were having a birthday party for my daughter and my mom and him were coming to dinner. My guess is that he didnt want to speak with my friend and knew he would be there. So the day I was told I had a conversation with my friend. My friend was drinking he smoked some weed and...how do i say this without being offensive or misappropriating.. or invalidating.....

(an aside. my experiences with the gay men in my life have all seemed to involve different "stages" I am not saying this is the case for all gay men or people. When I met my friend he would borrow my flower jeans and barrettes and now he identifies as a bear. In between all that he has fluctuated with different styles and identities)
So drinking, smoking weed and I am sure talking very bluntly (he always said he "played" the "fun gay friend role" with my neighbors and would be outrageous for the sake of it).
When I talked to my friend we had a fight. He said he didnt remember and if he was offensive or hurt my brother he wanted to make it right. All he knew is my brother stopped speaking to him and so did my mom. So this is me trying to address something that is two years past and that I wasn't present for or heard.

I cant exactly remember if or how I explained what my friend said to my brother or mom but my brother dismissed it. He said my friend wasn't that drunk, that it was horrible and not funny. He didnt believe that my friend doesnt remember. Of course it was horrible and not funny. But I know my friend would not deliberately try and hurt my brother. I believe my friend was being outrageous and a **** and made assumptions that were completely inappropriate but he was really inebriated so I can see that he wouldnt remember.

I think my brother felt betrayed yet never really told me what he needed from me to help him feel better. I thought the issue was put away and I just did not speak about my friend to him or mention him or anything. Then a few years later it cropped up again and was causing him anger and my mother had us to her house to hash it out. I repeated what my friend had told me and shared that he too was a victim of molestation and that in no way would he minimize or shame or make light of that... at least not knowingly.( or maybe its his terrible way of de-shaming it?) It seemed like my brother was at least accepting of that conversation. I made sure he knew that I believed him. I do not doubt his assault with that F'd up teacher or that my friend said something. But I do believe my friend made a horrible mistake. But he just doesnt believe that it wasn't intentional. I was/am in a bind because I believe both of them. Again, I thought we had at least come to a better understanding.

So my brother is 30 now and My friend just married his partner in July and our family was honored to be a part of his wedding. So I think I talked in general about it and it must have upset my brother. I think it angers him that my friend is happy and that my kids love him and that he is a part of our lives. Last week I sent him an article about a person we went to school with being arrested for

Possible trigger:

child porn

as a teacher and said "me and C used to be really tight with this guy-disgusting". My brother flipped out and blasted me on text. Telling me that if that it's disgusting so is what my friend did. That I do not stand up for him the way he has for me. That he has "half a mind to say something at my daughters' sweet 16 but he won't ruin her party". Lots of stuff like that.

It blind-sided me and I was crying so bad and on and off the whole day. I sent my mother the message and she didnt have much to say. She always says she doesnt want to get in the middle of things but I have always felt like he was the golden child- just a tiny bit. But she agreed we needed to talk.

I answered him by saying sorry for triggering, sorry for hurting but that I would not have a conversation about this over texting. I wanted to see him in person. He didnt get back to me the whole weekend and then finally did. He said he didnt know what the solution was and I said I didnt know that there had to be a solution but could we see each other.
So we met at my moms and sat out back. He reiterated everything but definitely from a more "mature" stand point and he even thought he needed to see a therapist to get over it. I listened and of course cried(because I am an emotional bipolar mess) and said I was sorry for whatever I did or did not do and explained my position. I asked him what should I have done and he didnt really have an answer.
I usually talk on an on and I did not say as much I tried really hard to listen. The conversation sort of just...peetered out and we both had to leave because it was late.

I am so sorry this is so long....
WTF should I have done or do? Am I a horrible person? (please dont say I am actually horrible, I feel really low) Should I just have blasted my friend, ignored everything he said and blocked him? Like I said none of this was brought to anyone's attention for like two years. And then years in between both conversations.

I am an alcoholic in recovery and I promise you I have said and done horrible things while drinking, some I remember and some I dont. I have had to listen to people tell me what I did and make amends for my behavior even when I dont remember it because I still hurt them. My friend wanted to make whatever happened better or "right" but never could. My brother stopped talking to him and I told him to leave my brother alone.
My brother said he knows he has to find peace. He knows now that its been like 10 years with my friend still a part of my life and family's life we cant go back in time. My brother and I are extremely close and if you buy into astrological signs he is a TRUE Aries. That white hot temper and then in a day better clarity. He gets crazy over people hurting his family and I know he would destroy anyone who hurt me or my kids. I have stuck up for my brother with other things but I do not announce it, or throw it back at him. I do not have that white hot quick temper and am more emotional.

I am not even sure what I am asking for here so I guess I will just ask for support and advice with kindness.
Thanks for letting me get this out.

[Buffy01]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I apologize for the length of this but it requires a lot of detail. I have a situation that has been a thing for years. My brother S is gay. We always knew it and he came out to me when he was about 16.(he is 14 years younger) I think part of making it easier to come out was because my best friend in the whole world is gay and was very open and up front and out and proud about his sexuality. I met my best friend in college. I had returned after having my son and my friend is 3 years younger than me. My son was 2 so I have been friends with him for 21 years. Everyone talks about their best friends being there for them but he truly has been. He is a part of our family. He was there for the birth of my daughter and is her godfather. I know his family. We have both had our ups and downs with things but never a fight where we didnt speak.

So anyway he is what I think helped my brother feel more secure. My brother had been communicating with him on his own.

Possible trigger:

My brother has a brown belt in karate. When he was about 16 and struggling with his sexuality and a terrible father his karate teacher assaulted him. I say assaulted because my brother was a minor, there was a power imbalance and threats to harm his family. I feel honestly that this sick man knew my brother's troubles and struggles and forcibly"coerced" him into a sexual something. I was never told the exact details.

I didn't find out about this right away. He did confide in my friend. About 10 years ago my friend and brother and I were next door at my neighbor's house for a late night get together. They are very, very down to earth, blunt, ball busting friends. We always laugh. When I was not at the table my brother S said that my friend C made references to the situation with the karate teacher. It was implied that he may have suggested the relationship was somehow consensual or that it was common knowledge amongst my neighbors when it was not. My brother left. He didnt say anything to me about this happening until 2 years or so after if had occurred. When he told me I felt terrible. He told me this on the weekend we were having a birthday party for my daughter and my mom and him were coming to dinner. My guess is that he didnt want to speak with my friend and knew he would be there. So the day I was told I had a conversation with my friend. My friend was drinking he smoked some weed and...how do i say this without being offensive or misappropriating.. or invalidating.....

(an aside. my experiences with the gay men in my life have all seemed to involve different "stages" I am not saying this is the case for all gay men or people. When I met my friend he would borrow my flower jeans and barrettes and now he identifies as a bear. In between all that he has fluctuated with different styles and identities)
So drinking, smoking weed and I am sure talking very bluntly (he always said he "played" the "fun gay friend role" with my neighbors and would be outrageous for the sake of it).
When I talked to my friend we had a fight. He said he didnt remember and if he was offensive or hurt my brother he wanted to make it right. All he knew is my brother stopped speaking to him and so did my mom. So this is me trying to address something that is two years past and that I wasn't present for or heard.

I cant exactly remember if or how I explained what my friend said to my brother or mom but my brother dismissed it. He said my friend wasn't that drunk, that it was horrible and not funny. He didnt believe that my friend doesnt remember. Of course it was horrible and not funny. But I know my friend would not deliberately try and hurt my brother. I believe my friend was being outrageous and a **** and made assumptions that were completely inappropriate but he was really inebriated so I can see that he wouldnt remember.

I think my brother felt betrayed yet never really told me what he needed from me to help him feel better. I thought the issue was put away and I just did not speak about my friend to him or mention him or anything. Then a few years later it cropped up again and was causing him anger and my mother had us to her house to hash it out. I repeated what my friend had told me and shared that he too was a victim of molestation and that in no way would he minimize or shame or make light of that... at least not knowingly.( or maybe its his terrible way of de-shaming it?) It seemed like my brother was at least accepting of that conversation. I made sure he knew that I believed him. I do not doubt his assault with that F'd up teacher or that my friend said something. But I do believe my friend made a horrible mistake. But he just doesnt believe that it wasn't intentional. I was/am in a bind because I believe both of them. Again, I thought we had at least come to a better understanding.

So my brother is 30 now and My friend just married his partner in July and our family was honored to be a part of his wedding. So I think I talked in general about it and it must have upset my brother. I think it angers him that my friend is happy and that my kids love him and that he is a part of our lives. Last week I sent him an article about a person we went to school with being arrested for

Possible trigger:

child porn

as a teacher and said "me and C used to be really tight with this guy-disgusting". My brother flipped out and blasted me on text. Telling me that if that it's disgusting so is what my friend did. That I do not stand up for him the way he has for me. That he has "half a mind to say something at my daughters' sweet 16 but he won't ruin her party". Lots of stuff like that.

It blind-sided me and I was crying so bad and on and off the whole day. I sent my mother the message and she didnt have much to say. She always says she doesnt want to get in the middle of things but I have always felt like he was the golden child- just a tiny bit. But she agreed we needed to talk.

I answered him by saying sorry for triggering, sorry for hurting but that I would not have a conversation about this over texting. I wanted to see him in person. He didnt get back to me the whole weekend and then finally did. He said he didnt know what the solution was and I said I didnt know that there had to be a solution but could we see each other.
So we met at my moms and sat out back. He reiterated everything but definitely from a more "mature" stand point and he even thought he needed to see a therapist to get over it. I listened and of course cried(because I am an emotional bipolar mess) and said I was sorry for whatever I did or did not do and explained my position. I asked him what should I have done and he didnt really have an answer.
I usually talk on an on and I did not say as much I tried really hard to listen. The conversation sort of just...peetered out and we both had to leave because it was late.

I am so sorry this is so long....
WTF should I have done or do? Am I a horrible person? (please dont say I am actually horrible, I feel really low) Should I just have blasted my friend, ignored everything he said and blocked him? Like I said none of this was brought to anyone's attention for like two years. And then years in between both conversations.

I am an alcoholic in recovery and I promise you I have said and done horrible things while drinking, some I remember and some I dont. I have had to listen to people tell me what I did and make amends for my behavior even when I dont remember it because I still hurt them. My friend wanted to make whatever happened better or "right" but never could. My brother stopped talking to him and I told him to leave my brother alone.
My brother said he knows he has to find peace. He knows now that its been like 10 years with my friend still a part of my life and family's life we cant go back in time. My brother and I are extremely close and if you buy into astrological signs he is a TRUE Aries. That white hot temper and then in a day better clarity. He gets crazy over people hurting his family and I know he would destroy anyone who hurt me or my kids. I have stuck up for my brother with other things but I do not announce it, or throw it back at him. I do not have that white hot quick temper and am more emotional.

I am not even sure what I am asking for here so I guess I will just ask for support and advice with kindness.
Thanks for letting me get this out.

This was not your fault! You are not the blame for what had happened! Your friend did apologized and had tried to make amends with your brother! I don't think that you should have to end your friendship with your friend. However your brother should have accepted the apology and forgive your friend.

[Chyialee]

Oh damn. This kind of horridness is SO hard!

In my family, we've had similar. Details aren't the point; let's just say that my son and one of my daughters haven't spoken in over a decade -- and won't. I hve had to declare myself Switzerland -- while validating her anger and his hurt and disgust. It's so so hard!

Honestly, your brother's idea of going to a therapist is spot on imo. It's very possible his feelings of being betrayed by his jerk teacher are all mixed up in his persistent feelings of beinig betrayed/unsupported by you and the family friend?

We love who we love -- family and friends included. THey have flaws, some acknowledged -- and some not and possibly never will. It's a tough situation, and I think everyone is eventually gonna face a Great Divide, where two people we care deeply for are angry with each other. If you can, try to validate your brother's feelings -- regardless of what Friend actually said/meant, it had a terrible wounding impact on your brother. At the same time, at his age and presumable maturity level, he is out of line to demand that you should now hate Friend bc he once did/said something ill advised and damaging.

Therapy, yup. And no, you are not a horrible person. Loving someone does not mean you issue a blanket approval automatically for every choice that they ever made.

Best to all of you,

Chyia

[unaluna]

I wonder if there wasnt something between your friend and your brother? This seems like a lot of trouble over something somebody only said, not something that was done. Boys get up to a LOT of trouble. So do girls, but boys brood more, i think

If your brother wants to make a scene at your daughters sweet 16, that kinda says to me that he is expressing anger at his own innocence being violated? And having your friend there - as if nothing happened, when maybe something more than you realize did indeed happen - is triggering him to lash out?

Maybe talk to him, maybe see a family counselor with him to talk about it? Idk what to do if it turns out there was contact between him and your friend. Im glad to hear your brother is considering therapy.

Boy it never rains but it pours, huh?

So sorry that this happened to you, sarah. Your brother put you in the middle (which he was wrong to do), essentially asking you to choose between him and your best friend (which isn't fair to you at all).

Regardless of your gay friend S's actions at that party talking about the karate teacher out of context that upset your brother, the crux of the matter is that your brother chose not to seek help after his karate teacher assaulted him. He didn't tell you or anyone in your family about it but kept it to himself. Yet he expects you to fix his past, which is just not even possible.

You did everything you could, listening to your brother rant about his past. I think he picked a fight with you and your gay friend b/c on some level, he's mad at himself for not reaching out for help sooner, and so he projected that self-anger on to you and your gay friend S because it's easier to be angry at someone else, than to be angry with ourselves. I could be wrong but that's just the feeling I got from reading your post once.

I think your brother needs to see a sexual abuse therapist who has the training to give your brother the coping skills and tools to deal with what his karate teacher did to him. The therapist your brother works with, could teach him self-empowerment and teach him how to reframe his anger, which has been misdirected at your gay friend S and at you via text. https://www.counseling.org/docs/disa...e.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Do not beat yourself up about this sarah. You've been a supportive sister to your brother. There's really nothing more you could have done. He chose not to tell you about the event when it happened, possibly due to shame, embarrassment or guilt or anger or fear which are normal responses to being sexually assaulted. But he is wrong to blame your gay friend S and blame you for not being sensitive or not helping him. He's 30 years old. He needs to go see a therapist who will help him properly process that awful experience he had with his karate teacher, so that he can move forward with his life and resolve his misdirected anger at your gay friend S and at you.

[MickeyCheeky]

I agree with the other wise, wonderful posters, @sarahsweets. You did nothing wrong! In fact you've been a WONDERFUL sister and you've don ALL you could do! Things like this are always hard because it feels like you're forced to pick a side even if that isn't the intention and that's not fair to you. I'm so sorry for what your brother has been through I agree with him that a therapist would be the wisest option. It seems like it took a lot of time for him to speak up about it and that likely made things more complicated. It isn't his fault though. We all process our experiences in our own ways and with our own time. Hopefully he'll be able to work on it. Hopefully he'll also be able to clear things up with your friend but the choice is up to them! Either way, please do NOT blame yourself as you're acting the best possible way, truly. Listening to him, validating his feeling, caring for him and making him understand that you believe him are really all the things you can do. The rest is up to him. Feel free to suggest but the final choice will be ALWAYS up to him. Please don't beat yourself over this. You're kind and sweet. I'm so sorry that you're feeling so bad and I hope things will get cleared up soon! Sending many safe, warm hugs to BOTH you and ALL of your family, sarahsweets!

[divine1966]

I am sorry. It’s painful to be in the middle of this.

My husband’s family often has similar kind of dramas and as much as he tries to keep his distance and to stay out of it, it effects his stress level. All this could effect your mental health and you need to protect yourself. I’d stay out if it and let them deal with it.

Your friend and your brother and the whole party were drunk AND high, unfortunately it’s always a recipe for disaster. For your brother to hold grudges over what someone said intoxicated is unrealistic as he himself was intoxicated and might not recall things correctly.

I don’t drink at all but in my young years I was drunk twice, both times I made a complete and total fool out of myself so as expected your friend and probably your brother made fools of themselves. Plus maybe there is more to the story. You aren’t your brother’s keeper. If my friend deliberately insulted my brother I’d always choose my brother. Family comes first for me. But there is no deliberate insult. And you weren’t there so who knows what happened.

Let them deal with it and stay out of it. You didn’t cause it and you can’t fix it