Is psychological abuse in the eye of the beholder?

Thank you for the calmness of your answer.

He is a bit of OCD, and I realize that he has unresolved issues that he's not even aware of.

I will do my best to keep myself calm, and approach our conversation as a way for him to better understand.

It is a very interesting thought about depression being a form of anxiety.

I'm so hopeful and yet so scared...

Thank you. I'll try to be strong, but you just voiced my biggest fear about the talk.

But as much as I fear his answers and responses , I have to talk to him.

I feel that emotional rollercoaster and realization about abusive behavior have suspended me in a limbo - I don't know how to behave with him. I need answers and understanding of where I stand
So scared ...

Now, this is GOOD Zaza, much better than jumping to conclusions. Human beings are very complex and while most would like to have things be black and white, that's not how things actually are.

Actually, often individuals pick each other as a mate for reasons they don't even realize too. Often the reason a person with OCD challenges picks a person that is more laid back, is that they find it has a "calming" affect on them.

When someone experiences "stress" it can rev them up, or weight them down. This can have an affect on the brain that they are learning can even change the brain too. One of the ways to help the brain is "learning and gathering information" which is exactly what you are doing (good job Zaza).

It can be a challenge to live with someone that has "high energy" behaviors. I think of not only OCD, but also ADHD. AWARENESS is very important when it comes to this, otherwise a person can go down a road that totally misses the REALITY and it ends up causing more harm than good. It's not healthy at all to PROJECT a problem that simply may not even the THE problem at all.

Now, I have a therapist who's wife has both ADHD and she also struggles with depression. She is far from stupid, actually she has a genuis IQ. By UNDERSTANDING her challenges, he has been able to build a relationship that WORKS for them. THEY LOVE EACH OTHER and the have found out the way THEY work as human beings. So they work on managing their relationship around their personal idosyncrasies.

When you DO sit and talk to your husband, he may respond best if you are not only calm, but limit how LONG your conversation is. Sometimes it isn't that someone doesn't care to listen, often it's more due to how much information they can sit and take in without getting overwhelmed.

Actually, there is a good movie about this. It stars Jack Nicholson and he does a good job in this role he plays. The movie is called "As good as it gets". The character he plays does have OCD. (lol my favorite character is the dog). LOL, there is a part where the woman in the story says, "Why can't I have a NORMAL boyfriend?". Her mother pops her head out and says "Everyone wants that dear, IT DOESN'T EXIST".

Well, if you have not seen this movie, FIND IT and watch it. It may make you laugh and it's a good movie and does offer some food for thought too. I like this movie because it shows some important GRAY when it comes to relationships.

There is no such thing as the perfect man, just as is mentioned in that movie. It's a waste of time to expect some ideal and end up going down the wrong road when instead you can LEARN what to appreciate about each other despite what isn't and never will be PERFECT.

I think it would really help YOU Zaza because you don't deserve to feel "not good enough" and have that stress build up in you where you get weighted down by feeling depressed.

I live with a man that has both ADHD and Dysexia, he gets impatient, can only listen a bit then gets frustrated, he is not laid back nore is he a deep thinker like I am either. There was a lot that came with him that I did not understand, it's like getting something that doesn't have directions with it which would be so much easier to operate if it came with directions.

So with all this in mind, think about a conversation that may HELP both of you instead of looking for something that isn't there and may be the wrong road to take you to where you want to go.

Try not to jump on the fear wagon, instead take some time to LEARN instead. Knowledge is power, and can help reduce stress.

What are you scared of? Yes, it’s difficult to swallow the truth about being abused. Very difficult.

Bottom line is: if you feel frequently criticized, put down, controlled, berated, yelled at, belittled, and demeaned then you are being abused. Once that reality is faced, you have a choice and can leave if you want to no longer be mistreated.

Open Eyes, thank you from the bottom of my heart.


Yes, I know and live that movie It's on my "I can watch it over and over again" list. Maybe we'll watch it this weekend.


OCD, ADHD, Dyslexia... yep, that's his challenges.


Low esteem, depression, and confrontations are my challenges.


I have a plan in my head. Don't want to jinx it. But will keep it short and focused. Will not go into specifics and blame.


I'm feeling so hopeful and elevated... it scares me so much! The better I feel now, the worse it will feel if he doesn't respond positively.

Oh (((ZaZa)) that is what I deal with in my husband too, and my daughter. It's SO important to learn how to interact with these individuals. They DO get overwhelmed if you expect them to listen too long.

YES, they can be a challenge to interact with. THEY have to learn to understand THEIR challenges too.

They DO tend to fill the room with their presence. It's just how they are, the kind of brain they have.

My therapist and I talk about this because both his wife and his young son struggle with ADHD. KNOWLEDGE is power for you with this ZaZa.

Don't you just love that little dog in that movie? He is SO CUTE!!

Remember, "Everyone wants the perfect man dear, it doesn't exist!".

If you love each other and want to stay together, then it can take time to slowly learn what works best. It's simply not black and white, that's for sure.

From one Helen Hunt to another, I get it, it's a challenge, I hear you.

And actually ZaZa, how you titled your thread here is very much what that movie is all about.

What was so touching in that movie is when he said to her how he would watch her in that restaurant and could see how incredibly amazing she was that so many did not see. He said that because HE could see it, it made him feel good about HIMSELF.

Such a good movie!! Like you, I like to watch it a lot myself.

ADHD does not cause someone to be abusive, nor does it excuse someone from being abusive. They are either abusive or they are not. If he is controlling of you in many different ways, and if he is giving you an extensive list of ways to "improve" yourself, that is very demeaning towards you as well as controlling, and it's putting you down, which is abuse. It says that you're not good enough for him as you are now, which is a put down. It helps you much more to recognize the signs of abuse, and to not excuse his abusive behaviors as ADHD symptoms. There's a difference.

The ONLY issue I see here is emotional regulation and outbursts, in this list of ADHD symptoms that can cause relationship issues. I see nothing about control or otherwise abusive behaviors:

Symptoms of ADHD that can cause relationship problems

Trouble paying attention. If you have ADHD, you may zone out during conversations, which can make your partner feel ignored and devalued. You may also miss important details or mindlessly agree to something you don’t remember later, which can be frustrating to your loved one.

Forgetfulness. Even when someone with ADHD is paying attention, they may later forget what was promised or discussed. When it’s your spouse’s birthday or the formula you said you’d pick up, your partner may start to feel like you don’t care or that you’re unreliable.

Poor organizational skills. This can lead to difficulty finishing tasks as well as general household chaos. Partners may feel like they’re always cleaning up after the person with ADHD and shouldering a disproportionate amount of the family duties.

Impulsivity. If you have ADHD, you may blurt things out without thinking, which can cause hurt feelings. This impulsivity can also lead to irresponsible and even reckless behavior (for example, making a big purchase that isn’t in the budget, leading to fights over finances).

Emotional outbursts. Many people with ADHD have trouble moderating their emotions. You may lose your temper easily and have trouble discussing issues calmly. Your partner may feel like they have to walk on eggshells to avoid blowups.

Adult ADHD and Relationships - HelpGuide.org

Zaza, you are not just dealing with ADHD, but also Dyslexia and some OCD from what you have shared. If you go down the "he is abusing me road" your interactions with him can become a shaming contest instead of actually working things out where both of you can understand each other and work together on things.

There is actually a difference between a person that looks up one thing (that anyone can do) and another person who has had to learn how to interact with both their husband and daughter that have these challenges guided by PROFESSIONAL HELP from individuals who specialize in these challenges.

Just saying....

That being said, once you get the right information which can make a difference you can communicate with better understanding. If you get to a point where you feel this is too challenging for you as it's not as though this is your child like what I myself had to learn to understand and even ADVOCATE for, you may decide this is not a relationship you can handle.

I find that MOST people prefer to learn about what they are dealing with and make up THEIR OWN MIND about if they want to work on the relationship or if they can work around the challenge.

This is a support site, the individuals interacting here are NOT professionals. You will get different opinions based on different member's experiences and challenges they have dealt with.

We here at Psych Central try to provide a "safe" place for all kinds of people with all kinds of challenges to interact and share. These members are not professional therapists or psychiatrists.

I just want to add that given you are in Canada, I am not sure what they have in terms of access to individuals who actually specialize in these challenges and helping couples work on the areas that they feel constantly challenged by. It would be very helpful if both you and your husband could work with a therapist that understands this challenge that can help you communicate with each other so neither of you walk away feeling you just experienced yet another round of shaming each other.

Personally, I did not JUST deal with ADHD, but also Dyslexia and some OCD. I found that with my husband if he has a bad day it can actually help if I leave dirty dishes around so he can go in the kitchen and bang around and clean (that's his OCD) because it seems to calm him down. They DO struggle with anger, so it's not YOU but often their own frustation. Knowing how to "help" them calm down which can mean actually leaving them alone so they can slowly calm down can make a difference. I found that was what I often had to do with my daughter.

Understanding what you are actually dealing with can make all the difference in the world. Often when individuals are ill informed and undiagnosed ADHD the environment can turn into witnessing the ADHD individual yelling at others and lots of screaming matches and anger.

Also, I noticed you talked about struggling with depression and staying organized, have you ever explored if you yourself may have some ADD or ADHD challenges? It's actually not unusual for a person to not find out until they are an adult. It's actually not unusual for someone struggling with ADHD to experience depression.

The above quote is from the link Have Hope posted. It is exactly what I have been explaining. It's not something anyone should be labeling as YOU ARE BEING ABUSED. KNOWLEDGE is power as often it's not intentional behavior. The WHY in someone's behavior IS important. You do actually have some important parts in your picture ADHD, Dyslexia, and OCD that you "both" can learn about and work around in your relationship.

I think there's a lot to be said that he has cared enough about you to want you to be better and helped you get therapy. Do you two do couples counseling?

Also, he might have had to be the one to kind of be in control while you got therapy and now you are feeling more in control of your depression, or least an understanding of it, so his "help" that he's used to giving is less helpful.

Have you two done any couples counseling? He sounds like he's open to therapy.

The problem with labeling him an abuser is that it makes him the villain and enemy, and there's nothing left to do but leave. If you want your relationship to be healthy, you both together have to tackle the problem as a team. Realize you both want each other to feel good about yourself and each other. If you both can sit and talk without placing blame about the things that affect you in the relationship, you could work together to create solutions that make you both feel happier and healthier.

On the other hand, if he truly is being controlling and it's causing you to be sicker, then you may need to separate. I'm not sure if he's just outright controlling. It sounds like there are multiple factors here. It does sound like he has that sort of take charge personality, but it also sounds like you like that about him, mostly. Sometimes the things that attracted us to someone also have a not so pleasant side that we also have to deal with. But you cannot have one without the other.

No one is perfect. Hopefully he loves you enough to want you to feel happy and healthy and would be willing to adjust how he communicates with you.

Just a note, my dad has ADHD and he gets VERY irritable if things are disorganized. He will have a temper tantrum (caused by adhd related anxiety) if we, for example, switch around how utensils are organized in the utensil drawer, or there is too much junk on the dining room table. The clutter and junk make it difficult for him to focus and give him anxiety. Sometimes he has little outbursts about it. And yes, yelling can feel abusive, but because I know it's about him and what's happening in his brain, I don't take offense. I just help him solve the problem once he's calmed down.

Your husband's controlling ways could be very similar to my dad's. It's not an intentional way to be cruel, he's doing it to keep order in his own head. Understanding that about him, I'm able to have compassion and also find solutions that work for the whole family. We also know that he's human and sometimes humans just have outbursts.

Humans also get defensive. I wonder if he sort of ignores it when you bring it up because he doesn't want to admit what really bothered him? He may not really understand his need to control, and therefore wants to deny it. Again, it's not to hurt you but keep his own brain on track and not suffer the cognitive disconnect from his need to have things in order be wrong.

Now, is this behavior affecting you? Yes. Is it intentionally abusive? I'm not there so I dont know. But I see some key things in what you say to make me think you two have a shot at better understanding and relationship, if you are willing to not have to be right (either of you) and work together.

Zaza, I found this article and thought I would post it. Don't know if reading it can help, just was thinking about your depression and what you decribed about yourself.

When Depression Is Really Untreated ADHD

I re-read this thread with only your comments, ZaZa, so as not to be influenced by anyone else’s POV. It sounds like you are pretty happy with him, except that he is being too critical of you. Do you feel that you want to change the things he put on the list? My mate making a list of all my flaws, if I agreed that they are flaws or not, would really bother me. How do you want to handle that and where will it end?

Your thread got me thinking about my own relationship issues. I’ve always thought I have ADHD, OCD, and probably dyslexia, although it was never diagnosed. In some ways I meet the description and in some ways I don’t. I have problems with emotional regulation and it could be ADHD and not other diagnoses that have been called into question.

People say you are supposed to love and accept your mate for who they are and don’t try to change them, warts and all. Doesn’t everybody find some fault with each other?

Still, his list would really bother me.

Maybe I’d make a list of all his faults. Fault 1 would be that he made a list of my faults, lol.

It doesn’t sound like you should run or that you want to end this. You sound fearful that if you rock the boat, he will end it. Well, you matter. Don’t let anyone make you feel small, especially one who says they love you. How is nit picking love?

@ZazaJ, I hope you're not feeling overwhelmed by all the people weighing in on your thread and by all the various opinions. None of us can diagnose, and none of us are doctors or therapists. That being said, you initially stated that you felt like you are being abused.

Do you care to expand on that with more specifics so that we can help you better? Like, how do you feel he is being abusive? What does he do specifically besides what you have already told us?

Wow! What an amazing bunch of caring human beings is gathered here. I feel like I got hugs from all of you.


Yes, it is overwhelming. I need to process all this information And it provokes a lot of thoughts...

In short, we had a very focused talk last night and im pleased with outcome.


I'll provide more details as it settles down.


Hugs to all

@TishaBuv It's not unusual for someone to have these challenges that go undiagnosed. Everyone focuses on the behaviors, and while that is important it REALLY helps to know the whys too. Quite honestly, people have said nasty things to me, SHAMED me for choosing to stay in my relationship with my husband that struggles the way this woman has shared. My child also struggled and as her parent I had to learn how to be patient and help her on her journey to understand herself and how to manage her challenges better. People get punished and shamed for their challenge when what they really need is caring and support instead. Yes, one of the symptoms happens to be difficulty regulating emotions. This is something I had to help my daughter with and even now all these years later when she gets overwhelmed she calls me. Being informed can really help so that a person doesn't just end up repeating the same arguements and shaming each other and doing the silent treatment games etc.

In thinking about dealing with someone that has these challenges is how they can get SO UPSET if things don't go THEIR WAY. Often my husband will come home in a bad mood because he needed others to do things HIS way and they wanted to do things their way and now it ruined his day or how he expected to enjoy an outing or something. I have had to keep reminding him that he needs to learn to let go of his need for control like that and learn to have a good time even when others don't do things HIS way.

If a person is undiagnosed and untreated they can have problems and NEED to put the blame on others too much. Once they finally get HELP and GUIDANCE to see how this is a problem for them they need to work on, things can begin to improve and they slowly learn how to better manage their emotional challenges they experience from their ADHD/Dyslexia/OCD issue.

At least NOW there is more understanding how an individual with these challenges "brains" are wired that presents these challenges for them. In the past that did not exist which was very hard for these individuals and their partners.

Hi TishaBuv,


LOL, yes the list is something else. Now I realize that's his OCD coming through. He makes lists for everything!


It's scary to challange the status quo, but I know it's absolutely necessary if things are to change... and I want our interaction to improve.


Thank you for your thoughts. I found it very supportive.

Lists, that has been constant with both my husband and my daughter. They learned they had to do check lists so they did not forget something. It's important to understand their needs and what they need to function because of how their brain is wired.

Hi Everyone,


Today feels so much lighter! I cannot thank you all enough for your thoughts. All your replies with such different points of view and yet supporting helped me to get some clarity about my situation.


For the last year, it felt like both of us were wrapped up in their own cloak of misery. Yesterday, we took those cloaks off.


I gave him heads up that I wanted to talk after dinner. We set right next to each other so we are not facing/confronting each other. And I told him that I don't want to go into any specifics, and want only have a level-set chat. I chose my words very very carefully to ensure that I get my message across. I talked about not understanding the reasons for his desire to change me (I left he controlling piece for another time). We talked about difficulty of truly understanding another person. Then we talked about how both of us have challenges and about need to learn about each other's struggles. And that we need to be kinder to each other. I was so anxious and scared that I hardly remember the conversation.


I know that one chat will not resolve all our issues, but it gave me hope. Hope that I'm not going crazy. Hope that we can make our relationship and our life better.


He's already found and seen a therapist today (I suggested that a few weeks ago). And he asked if I feel comfortable to meet with his therapist for a couple session. Of course I am.


I know we have a lot of work ahead of us, but it's worth it. We'll have bad days. We'll have fights. It's like we have to relearn how to be with each other.

Hopefully this has been uplifting for you too ((Zaz)) so you can at least feel empowered instead of feeling YOU are the failure.

Also, try to think of things in that movie. For example, when Helen Hunt says "When I first saw you I thought you were handsome, but then ofcourse you opened your mouth". Use that to lighten up your mind when you feel yourself being dragged down. You will experience ups and downs as you continue to work on this with him. Patience with him, Patience with yourself.

My little winnings: He said "I know you are counting calories, so I don't think you should be eating so many sweets especially at night". Usually, to me it translates into "He's trying to control what I eat". I'm not giving him the control. Instead, I said "Honey, what you just said is a trigger for me and it sounds like you are trying to control what/how I eat". He apologized and said that he'll work on not saying things like that.

This brings me to the title of this thread... Communication 101: a message always get processed and decoded based on our personal experiences, bias, beliefs, etc. So sometimes a simple, "this shirt doesn't look good" gets translated into "you are fat" (hypothetical scenario). The way I experience and perceive my husband's behavior is abusive and controlling. It has to change. But I also understand where it's coming from. That's a first step for me... for us.... Wish us luck and lots of patience.


P.S. Can't wait to hear what my therapist will have to say about all of this...