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  #51  
Old Mar 22, 2024, 06:47 PM
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seesaw seesaw is offline
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
"A person gets to an age where they don’t want to go back over their past. It is often too stressful for mind and body and can also bring up emotions that can damage whatever relationship they have now"



So....



Dad will go into extreme detail about all he endured while mom was drinking; on the phone, in person, and on email. Unprompted.


Simply saying, "I was there too. Do you want to hear it from my perspective? Have you ever once, ever, asked what it was like for anyone else?"


Gets a response of, "Why do you have to keep dragging up the past? Why can't you let anything go?", and a follow-up call from mom saying, "RD darling why can't you just move on and let bygones be bygones? Why can't we have peace?"


..... ????...... All about a past I never brought up or asked to revisit.


Holy geez.


True story. Happened last month.
This reminds me of when my narcissistic ex client/friend was bad mouthing and gossiping about this woman we had hired bc she was just totally failing and didn't have the skills to do the job.

I mentioned a few things, including that dumping this all (her work) on me while my dog was dying (yes, I was taking him to be put to sleep that week) was upsetting me. I was agreeing with my ex client that the woman's incompetence was annoying and angering.

And my client did a 180 and started calling me unprofessional for talking about the woman and said I was damaging our professional relationship.

You kind of get whiplash from how fast they do a 180 when you're literally just talking about what they were talking about.

It's like turning the corner and seeing a rattlesnake.

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What if I fall? Oh, my dear, but what if you fly?

Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder
Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia.

Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
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  #52  
Old Mar 22, 2024, 06:57 PM
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ArmorPlate108 ArmorPlate108 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
Dad will go into extreme detail about all he endured while mom was drinking; on the phone, in person, and on email. Unprompted.

Simply saying, "I was there too. Do you want to hear it from my perspective? Have you ever once, ever, asked what it was like for anyone else?"

Gets a response of, "Why do you have to keep dragging up the past? Why can't you let anything go?", and a follow-up call from mom saying, "RD darling why can't you just move on and let bygones be bygones? Why can't we have peace?"
Classic narcissist behavior... As soon as it's not all about him, and him alone, he's done. SMH.


Last edited by ArmorPlate108; Mar 22, 2024 at 07:29 PM.
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  #53  
Old Mar 22, 2024, 07:54 PM
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Open Eyes Open Eyes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
"A person gets to an age where they don’t want to go back over their past. It is often too stressful for mind and body and can also bring up emotions that can damage whatever relationship they have now"

So....

Dad will go into extreme detail about all he endured while mom was drinking; on the phone, in person, and on email. Unprompted.

Simply saying, "I was there too. Do you want to hear it from my perspective? Have you ever once, ever, asked what it was like for anyone else?"

Gets a response of, "Why do you have to keep dragging up the past? Why can't you let anything go?", and a follow-up call from mom saying, "RD darling why can't you just move on and let bygones be bygones? Why can't we have peace?"

..... ????...... All about a past I never brought up or asked to revisit.

Holy geez.

True story. Happened last month.
This is showing you that he can’t validate how your mother’s drinking and how that created conflict in their relationship affected you (his children). Instead he is looking for validations and comfort. And your mother just wants it to go away because she can’t see her way to seeing things from anyone’s point of view but her own. Your father is looking for a big that a boy because he paid the bills and kept the marriage together despite how hard it was for him.

Unfortunately, this happens a lot in relationships where there is alcohol or drug abuse in the mix. Alcohol abuse is a very narcissistic disorder and hurts all involved with the person. And the person engages in covert acts of denial and play the victim.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Mar 22, 2024 at 08:36 PM.
  #54  
Old Mar 22, 2024, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmorPlate108 View Post
Classic narcissist behavior... As soon as it's not all about him, and him alone, he's done. SMH.

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What if I fall? Oh, my dear, but what if you fly?

Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder
Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia.

Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
  #55  
Old Mar 22, 2024, 10:48 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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"And your mother just wants it to go away because she can’t see her way to seeing things from anyone’s point of view but her own"

You won't hear me say anything against Mom. She was always a wonderful person. I don't know why she turned to alcohol, but I believe she was emotionally lonely. She has always been immensely kind, thoughtful and careful with our emotions. She committed fully to stopping drinking and she did. She's a very compassionate and emotionally intelligent person.


Today I got overwhelmed and talked to one of my Dad's sisters.

She said....

In case no one's told you, your father has some, maybe a lot, of narcissistic traits. But he's not a bad person. If you're expecting him to feel what you're feeling, he can't and he doesn't understand it. He will always think he's right. We just let him. Who cares. If you accept this as a mental illness, or a mental inability, you'll start having more peace. The stuff you're expecting is confusing and distressful to him. He's very giving in HIS way. Just let it be that.

Holy. Moley.

I need time to adjust to this, but I think.... I think she hit it.
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  #56  
Old Mar 23, 2024, 08:45 AM
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ArmorPlate108 ArmorPlate108 is offline
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Obviously I don't know the details of your family, but just wanted to say that many people with substance problems are the victims of other forms of abuse, including narcissistic. If one's never learned good processing/coping mechanisms, the anxiety, cognitive dissonance, guilt, shame, etc is often dealt with through substances. Some narcissists are addicts, but hardly all addicts are narcissists.

And sometimes having an addict on hand benefits the narcissist. Easy target or scapegoat, or someone to prove just how wonderful they are, trying to care for, and help, this unfortunate person.

That's a trip that your family member spoke openly about how the they accept his ways and just do their own thing. That, sadly, really is about all you can do with a narc. But I'll add to that, you do need strong boundaries in place. Boundaries don't set the other person straight, or change the other person directly. Boundaries are a civil way of you finding the edges of yourself, living into and liking who YOU are, and not allowing another person to overstep where they're not invited.

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  #57  
Old Mar 23, 2024, 09:57 AM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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"Boundaries are a civil way of you finding the edges of yourself"

That's beautiful.

Thank you
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  #58  
Old Mar 23, 2024, 10:13 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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Just saying...

It's the weekend.

My oldest and I made dinner together Friday evening. Youngest went to a friend's for a sleepover.

After dinner, we all went to the neighbors' for dessert and a visit.

Youngest came home after lunch. We did laundry and worked on cars and cleaned all day.

This evening the kids friends and girlfriends came over, and the parents of one of the kids.

We all had pizza, garlic fingers, and shrimp. The big kids hung out in the basement with the stereo just bumping. Then all eight of us hung out and played board games and card games all night.

The kitchen table is still full with kids and adults playing games...

This is so easy and so good.

RDM
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  #59  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 01:14 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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I had something happen at work recently where I verbally shut someone down.

Yesterday I had an hour long meeting with my way up the ladder boss. I was told that this is what has held me back over the years. I have more knowledge, education, ability, technical ability, and a broader skill set than anyone else in my organization, and I have contributed to more projects and initiaves that have remained part of our organization for in excess of ten years in some cases, but once in a while, "happens less than 5% of the time" I "school" someone.

I was told that even though the things I say may be valid, my sudden ability to shut someone down makes it hard to work with me.

I was told, there has never been a complaint about my conduct from a female colleague. I was told my female colleagues speak well of me and feel supported. I have a history of out producing my contemporaries, and a history of supporting new hires, and supporting the organization by ensuring a smooth transition of work flow from me to other staff anytime responsibilities or portfolios have changed, thereby ensuring there is no lost production or backward steps in the organization.

But sometimes I shut people down.

I said I know I have done that. I said I am overflowing with frustration and lost progress in things I have contributed to. That there have been projects I have contributed to, in some cases for years, and the work has been lost..... truly... Digital files that another team member lost, and then lost again. I told my boss, "You don't know how frustrating that is, and how foolish we look on the front line to a client."

Boss said, "I understand that."

I said, "No you don't. It's really bad and extremely frustrating. We lost our way as an organization for several years, and we re-doing years worth of work, again."

Boss said, "See? That is a perfect example of the issue with you. You just corrected me. You schooled me."

I said "Do you have an understanding of what this is like dealing with this on a daily basis?"

Boss: "Well... No.... But you can't make people feel like that. You snap people to attention and school them. Because of that, I can't make you part of a cohesive team anywhere in the organization, so there really isn't a way to advance you."

Wow.



The thing is.... This mirrors my personal life so much.

I'm so tired of being "the angry and difficult" one.


RDMercer
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  #60  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 02:14 PM
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I tend to be like you. If someone is doing something wrong they need to learn it is not ok & I am usually the one to clue them in.

Think your company is a reflection on society.....let the wrong go unschooled because we don't want to hurt their feelings or make them feel wrong even though they are (hurting the company in this case) or hurting others. Lack of accountability stinks
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Leo my soulmate will live in my heart FOREVER Nov 1, 2002 - Dec 16, 2018
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  #61  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 03:57 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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You know what Eskie?

I figured I'd hear from you.

Thank you
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  #62  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
I had something happen at work recently where I verbally shut someone down.


Yesterday I had an hour long meeting with my way up the ladder boss. I was told that this is what has held me back over the years. I have more knowledge, education, ability, technical ability, and a broader skill set than anyone else in my organization, and I have contributed to more projects and initiaves that have remained part of our organization for in excess of ten years in some cases, but once in a while, "happens less than 5% of the time" I "school" someone.


I was told that even though the things I say may be valid, my sudden ability to shut someone down makes it hard to work with me.


I was told, there has never been a complaint about my conduct from a female colleague. I was told my female colleagues speak well of me and feel supported. I have a history of out producing my contemporaries, and a history of supporting new hires, and supporting the organization by ensuring a smooth transition of work flow from me to other staff anytime responsibilities or portfolios have changed, thereby ensuring there is no lost production or backward steps in the organization.


But sometimes I shut people down.


I said I know I have done that. I said I am overflowing with frustration and lost progress in things I have contributed to. That there have been projects I have contributed to, in some cases for years, and the work has been lost..... truly... Digital files that another team member lost, and then lost again. I told my boss, "You don't know how frustrating that is, and how foolish we look on the front line to a client."


Boss said, "I understand that."


I said, "No you don't. It's really bad and extremely frustrating. We lost our way as an organization for several years, and we re-doing years worth of work, again."


Boss said, "See? That is a perfect example of the issue with you. You just corrected me. You schooled me."


I said "Do you have an understanding of what this is like dealing with this on a daily basis?"


Boss: "Well... No.... But you can't make people feel like that. You snap people to attention and school them. Because of that, I can't make you part of a cohesive team anywhere in the organization, so there really isn't a way to advance you."



Wow.






The thing is.... This mirrors my personal life so much.


I'm so tired of being "the angry and difficult" one.





RDMercer
It's hard to be a truth teller. It's why I'm not longer employable. However, I excel as a consultant/contractor, and my clients love when I give them the truth and take them to task.

When you're good at something and others are just mediocre, it can be hard to get along. Because your "just enough" will always be 20x better than their "just enough", and so you will always feel like you do more.

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What if I fall? Oh, my dear, but what if you fly?

Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder
Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia.

Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
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  #63  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 06:27 PM
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eskielover eskielover is offline
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
You know what Eskie?

I figured I'd hear from you.

Thank you
Lol.....I just couldn't resist.

I have experienced this so many times in my career & in my marriage. Lol.....11 years after I left he said he hated it cause I was always right but he fought me anyway cause he hated being wrong. We had one college grad who was smart but all the other engineers saw him as lazy. I actually taught him our hardware degugging system & he ended up excelling. Had a section manager who thought he knew it all & screwed up an update to a data link program I wrote because he refused to talk to me about how it was designed. A engineer who was a friend of mine took it over & worked with me to fix it. Attitude is everything. Some are willing to learn from others some just want to be the know it all & mess it up instead of asking

It is hard being better at things & not willing to settle for not even ok in silence.
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  #64  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 07:18 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
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  #65  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 07:56 PM
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Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
What awesome validation
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Leo my soulmate will live in my heart FOREVER Nov 1, 2002 - Dec 16, 2018
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  #66  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 08:03 PM
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seesaw seesaw is offline
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
Exactly. Managers aren't leaders. They're babysitters. Leaders inspire people. They motivate people. And sometimes they shut people down when they're being stupid.
__________________


What if I fall? Oh, my dear, but what if you fly?

Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder
Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia.

Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
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  #67  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 08:20 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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Thanks

BTW, @seesaw...

After that meeting, my boss told me essentially they were counting on me remaining in my current role, but advising on upcoming projects.

I said...

You realize I'm the most experienced person in our organization by 5 years. If I leave, you'll be hiring a consultant. A consultant is worth 5x my salary.

Well... Yes.

Then I'll be planning my transition out to become an entrepreneur.

"Well.... This was not the conversation I expected to have today."

"I understand, But it's been really informative for me and gives me some targets."

RDMercer
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  #68  
Old Mar 29, 2024, 10:10 PM
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Open Eyes Open Eyes is offline
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
This is my thinking as well. This upper boss even admitted you can do better than him. Sounds like he is a bit intimidated by you.

This is how my father was, always knowing more than his commanders when he served in WWII. When it came time for his ship that he was on to go back out on another tour I of duty the commander would not have my father go on that tour.

It ended up saving his life because that ship was hit by a torpedo and all the men in his unit were killed. Had he gone he would have also lost his life. I would not exist to write this post.

Nothing wrong with improving your behaviors. Yet you can change the lacks in others.
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  #69  
Old Mar 30, 2024, 06:28 AM
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These conversations can give you an idea of where you are. However, it’s important to give it thought before deciding to make any changes. Also don’t react with “then I am leaving” as that can push things in a direction that’s not helpful at all. Instead it’s better to make a move when you have a plan so you can cover your expenses of your mortgage etc.
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  #70  
Old Mar 30, 2024, 07:35 AM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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My actual response was less direct.

It was something like,

Then it's time for me to plan my transition out of here in the next two years. It might be time to look at entrepreneurial opportunities.
  #71  
Old Mar 30, 2024, 11:11 AM
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Why don’t you look into being a consultant? See what is available in the job market.
  #72  
Old Apr 02, 2024, 08:26 AM
Molinit Molinit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
I had something happen at work recently where I verbally shut someone down.

But sometimes I shut people down.

I said I know I have done that. I said I am overflowing with frustration and lost progress in things I have contributed to. That there have been projects I have contributed to, in some cases for years, and the work has been lost..... truly... Digital files that another team member lost, and then lost again. I told my boss, "You don't know how frustrating that is, and how foolish we look on the front line to a client."

Boss said, "I understand that."

I said, "No you don't. It's really bad and extremely frustrating. We lost our way as an organization for several years, and we re-doing years worth of work, again."

Boss said, "See? That is a perfect example of the issue with you. You just corrected me. You schooled me."

I said "Do you have an understanding of what this is like dealing with this on a daily basis?"

Boss: "Well... No.... But you can't make people feel like that. You snap people to attention and school them. Because of that, I can't make you part of a cohesive team anywhere in the organization, so there really isn't a way to advance you."

Wow.

RDMercer
Not to be critical, but only to offer a data point on this issue.

I have attempted in the past to point out that you seem "stuck" or stagnant in moving out of your marriage and ruminate over events that occurred in the past.

Your responses to me were that I don't understand how fill-in-the-blank it is for you, your wife is a covert narcissist, etc. Then you have lectured me about covert narcissism and loop back to how unless I can understand YOU, I have nothing of importance for you to consider.

After a few tries in getting you unstuck, I no longer offer my observations because it is too difficult. You will always respond with how I cannot possibly understand due to fill-in-the-blank.

Life does not require that people understand you. If you want to work collaboratively and as part of a team and perhaps progress in your career as a result of that, it actually requires that you put your nose to the grindstone and do the work, without blaming others for not understanding YOU.

My experience in observing your posts over the years is that you will only respond favorably to posts enabling your current behavior or taking "your" side on an issue. The responses after you described the work encounter testify to that as well. There are a couple of people who will always explain away any difficulty you have with others by saying the other person is intimidated/narcissistic/alcoholic/unreasonable and you will always gravitate to those responses almost immediately and use them to justify your position.
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  #73  
Old Apr 02, 2024, 09:11 AM
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eskielover eskielover is offline
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Quote:
After a few tries in getting you unstuck
Sticking my nose in here....from my own personal experience, NO ONE can get anyone else unstuck. That is a "fixer" mentality. A person has to go through & process what has happened in their own life & figure out how they will move on. Sometimes that takes more time than others & venting in posts here helps that processing more than any of the replies do. That is exactly why, no one actually understands & the responses are not accurate because no one can actually understand what a person is going through or how they are going through it. We are not STUCK.....we are just in the process of processing what happened & how we will handle it.

Quote:
Life does not require that people understand you. If you want to work collaboratively and as part of a team and perhaps progress in your career as a result of that, it actually requires that you put your nose to the grindstone and do the work, without blaming others for not understanding YOU.
From reading his post , this isn't about not doing the work....it is about correcting those doing the work with him so he doesn't end up having to do their work over on top of his. Big difference.

Quote:
There are a couple of people who will always explain away any difficulty you have with others by saying the other person is
There are often people in our lives that do CAUSE the difficulties in our lives (unless we get rid of them from our lives before it gets to that point). If not it is at that point we have to figure out how to deal with them & figure out a new direction in our life. Neither of those things can be done in a blink of an eye & take time to figure out & like correcting the direction of a boat, it takes numerous adapting with the rudder to get out of a messy situation. It doesn't just magically happen with one thought or someone else telling you what to do.
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Leo my soulmate will live in my heart FOREVER Nov 1, 2002 - Dec 16, 2018
Thanks for this!
Open Eyes
  #74  
Old Apr 02, 2024, 10:57 AM
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Open Eyes Open Eyes is offline
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Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,265
^^^^

Thank you eskie! I was sitting here wanting to respond and your post reflects my own sentiments. I think RD has been making progress. It simply doesn’t happen overnight, you are correct on that.
Hugs from:
eskielover
Thanks for this!
eskielover
  #75  
Old Apr 06, 2024, 05:00 PM
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Open Eyes Open Eyes is offline
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Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,265
@RDMercer checking in to see how you are doing.
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