My ex came to the house

It's amazing how much I question myself after my interactions with her.

There are so many things that are plausible, or possible, and maybe I said something wrong, maybe I misunderstood something that she said, or whatever.

I feel guilty now for any assumptions I may have made about her intentions.

That’s called cognitive dissonance. That’s what happens when experiencing an ongoing toxic relationship.

Also self blaming can bring on a sense of control.

I think you told me that before about self blame.

Thank you for reminding me.

Disordered people love vague/indirect communication. There's so much power in it. It's quite often how they get others to doubt themselves.

Even something as simple as deciding to order a pizza- you felt that they were on board, only to spend the next few days hearing about what a terrible experience it was, they didn't want it, and the ongoing misery is all your fault.

Codependency recovery focuses a lot on learning/relearning direct, polite, and tactful communication just for your own sake of sanity. It boggles the mind how often you ask a simple question and get an answer that's vague and indirect- or one that just plain runs off into the weeds. I've learned to ask very specific questions AND expect very direct answers in return. Repeat as necessary until the answer is direct. Harder than you can imagine for some disordered people.

“Word salad”

If you experience it, you know.

My wife told me she needed to talk one time and made a long, drawn out apology. I tried to speak several times but she instructed me to listen.

It was about nothing. Nothing I’d ever had an issue with, nothing that mattered, and despite having the right tone and inflections, no content.

It was like if someone from a completely different culture or language acted out an apology.

When she was done she wanted my feedback. So I said, That’s not it at all. Nothing of what you said is what I’ve been talking about. Which just blew her mind.

I didn’t even know it was a thing with a term until about six months ago

A lot of people don’t know the term until
They see examples and learn that it’s mostly a person making statements that are just filling space and don’t really make sense. You walk away confused which exactly what is wanted.

It’s a form of escape that toxic people use. Yes it’s confusing.

I once worked with a guy who was not the brightest bulb, right?, but i didnt know. I asked him a question, and he gave me 30 minutes of word salad and absolutely would not let me leave. Boy i learned my lesson never to ask him a question again!

They exist in the tower of Babble.

I met up with a good friend for lunch today.

He told me about seeing my wife out on a date recently. He and his sister were having a meal at the same restaurant

He said, “Our age, and obviously accomplished by how he carried himself and the way he was dressed. Very put together, very classy, very expensive.”

And that just hurt to hear.

Being discarded and replaced by someone you never gave up on hurts. And I expect she traded up for someone with a higher level of success. I turned down job opportunities over the years because of responsibilities at home; jobs more than twice my current salary.

And she’s selling intimacy to have this person. That hurts too. I’ve always been an extremely monogamous person. My “body count” is very small because I always dated to find someone long term. That was something she appreciated about me, and I about her, or so I thought.

So that all really really hurts and sucks.

But, I also had a very attractive woman we used to know that lives in another state call me yesterday. We lived near each other for eight years. She told me she and her husband co parent the kids and are married on paper, but he’s been in an apartment attached to the house for seven years. She heard we’re separated and wanted to connect. She told me how she always saw me as “this very solid guy who provided for and protected his family.” We talked for 1.5 hours. So that attention and validation was nice. But… That’s all that’s going to happen there. That’s a dicey situation.

Her being on a date doesn’t mean anything. Doesn’t mean she replaced anyone with anything. It’s a date. Her dare being well put together doesn’t mean anything either. It’s easy to get a date. And people looking well off doesn’t mean anything. I’d try to ignore it. I know it hurts though. I understand.

People claiming that their marriage is only on paper lie probably 9 out of 10 times. I do not buy it. And her all of a sudden calling old neighbor when she finds out he’s single. Please.

When my husband was going through divorce and after his divorce, he got messages from some old neighbors and high school classmates who all of a sudden were suggesting some “fun” times. My husband isn’t the type that women chase and they barely even knew him, he’s not Mr. Popular so the fact they were lusting over him because he was newly single was just desperate and embarrassing.

I had similar situations although I was much younger. During and shortly after my divorce from my first husband, I was getting phone calls from old classmates and old acquaintances (and mutual friends) wanting to reconnect.

All of a sudden they were “kind of single” Well one’s wife was actually pregnant (as I found out later) when e kept calling and saying that he just cannot forget me. And one of MY old friends was shamelessly contacting my ex minute after we filed for divorce. Both I and my ex were embarrassed on behalf of these people. Gross

THANK YOU!

That was ALL extremely well said and a good dose of reality.

Like I said, we had a long conversation and she was a very physically attractive woman (haven’t seen her in years). I was flattered by the attention but also thought…. “Uh. This seems off.”

The dose of reality about the date was good too.

Thank you!!

I tried to hug you at the bottom of your message but it messed up!

Nope!

It worked

I’m still thinking about everything you said.

I am SO freaking innocent and clueless about this stuff.

I had not an inkling that this was a “thing”. That people from your past come out of the woodwork after a separation.

I am not saying it always happens, but it seems to be awfully common! I heard it from several people.

Hugs back! Hang in there

20, 30 years ago, the widowed italian ladies were advised to change their phone number (in the phone books) because old italian guys would call, looking for new wives / cooks / housekeepers!

But nobody ever called MY mom when my dad passed. I guess her reputation preceded her?

So its good you were called!

🤣🤣🤣🤣hahahahaha

In my case they weren’t even looking for someone to cook lol just for some good times. And a woman who kept calling my ex wanted him to fix her car. He kept telling her he’s not a car mechanic! She never asked him when we were married. 🤣

I’m feel embarrassed for having said that stuff yesterday.

I’m not made for this….

RDM

You have nothing to be embarrassed about! We are all in the same boat. Most on here were divorce or broken up at some point. We’ve been there. It’s not a picnic.

ITA. Your feelings and thoughts are completely understandable and normal.

What stood out to me in your posts yesterday was that you got some very positive attention from a female friend, but listened to your instincts that something seemed off. You have standards that you didn't compromise. It's good to have strong standards for the people, situations, and relationships you allow into your life.

Your friends should not have said anything to you about seeing your wife. Also, just because a man is well dressed doesn’t mean he is better. Also he may be a user that ends up just using your wife and dumping her. I question if these so called friends are people you should consider as friends. A true friend would not want to tell you things that only serve to upset you. Your wife is hoping they will report to you so you feel bad. That is what toxic people enjoy doing and get an ego boost from “ hurting others”.

Your wife is a user and anyone she is with will be used. You are better off without her. She is not and never will be the person you created in your mind that is a good person or healthy for you to have in your life.

@Open Eyes

You're right. You're completely right.

I look at the people in my life right now. There are so many good people; deeply good people that command no attention at all. It's easy to see the surface.

I think it was right for my friend to tell me that about my wife. It hurt a LOT, but all these things continue to solidify in my mind that she's not who I thought she was at all.

This may sound crazy, but I actually thought..... IF I loved her so much, and IF that was because she was merely playing a role and reflecting me back to me, THEN I bet I'll really enjoy my own company.

Like I said to a friend, I go through these periods of depression and feeling overwhelmed, then when I come out the other side, it's like I'm at a new stage in my recovery. Each new stage is fragile and needs time to develop and take root. Right now, I'm not where I was two weeks ago. And comparing this to where I was in August is a big difference, because a lot has suddenly happened and it's forced change and growth. I'm lucky I can change and grow.

I've talked before about deeply enjoying the peace and quiet here. Enjoying the complete dark and silence of the house at night, and not even wanting music on. Just craving the peace. Then that changed. There's music on much more often again. I still enjoy the peace, but the deep profound longing I used to feel during it is waning.

I think I'm someone who feels deeply, and I don't defend myself very much. I'm not a good "cognitive first" thinker. I'm more of an "emotions first" thinker. I'm working on that.

My kids are SO healthy and doing SO well. They've gone off-roading for the afternoon and I'm working at home. Yesterday we were all at a baby shower for a young couple my son has known since kindergarten. Afterwards two of them went to visit friends, and me and daughter went riding dirt bikes.

My son is taking some vacation and tonight we're watching scary movies together. The big fella is taking his kid sister to Spirit Halloween to look for costumes later today too.

My daughter's therapist called me last week just to tell me my daughter is doing, so, so much better, and to tell me how profoundly my daughter loves me.

These things are blessings.

I'm scared of court. I'm scared of being financially ruined, but I also go through periods of being hopeful. Right now, I am far more mentally prepared to see her in court than I was a few weeks ago. I'm scared I won't be as genuine in my version of things because I've had some time to heal.

Anyway. I'm OK.

Quote:

I'm scared I won't be as genuine in my version of things because I've had some time to heal.

you will be better because you are stronger & have processed what has happened & it is much clearer to you now

I genuinely feared her.

I could never understand how to explain that or why it was so extreme.

I think it was because of the extreme gaslighting, and the conditioning to just take her anger and bitterness defenselessly.

And, I'm thankful to my current therapist for pointing out that I was physically abused. Long term sleep deprivation is physical abuse. Dr Ramani talks about that as physical abuse as well. She incited panic in me by bursting into the room repeatedly to say all these heinous things to me then leaving.

I hope I'll be able to speak from a genuine place and an honest place. I'm actually scared to heal too much before I have to speak about this in court because I'm scared if I'm too calm it will reduce the legitimacy of what we experienced.

It won’t kill the legitimacy in court. You can tell the facts and give a couple of strong examples of the abuse to support the facts. Say that you were and are afraid of her. Be prepared. Your lawyer should be prepping you for that.