Understanding that my therapist actually cares about me.

A little background to a breakthrough in my private therapy. I addition to private therapy, I also take an anger management class.

There was a new member in my anger management class. She talked about her violent rages. Her live-in boyfriend is a counselor of some kind, and took her aside after an incident to talk with her about her feelings. She said he tends to do that regularly, and she finds it annoying or even anger-provoking. I chimed in and said, “He’s talking to you about your feelings because he cares a lot about you.” The phrase sounded so familiar. I was very sincere about it. By the time I got home it sunk in that listening attentively, and responding appropriately and helpfully, is a true indication of one person caring for another.

As the kids today say, “OMG!” As I like to say, “Holy s**t!” That idea finally hit home. My T prods me to talk about my feelings, sympathizes (pretty much) with my pain, and gives me professional, thoughtful, specific help in dealing with my issues. The sessions are often uncomfortable and even painful. That’s what my T does, and has done so for about seven years. All of my stomach-grinding angst, sadness, yearning to know if she really cares about me had just been answered...by me! The concept clicked in my mind. And the answer came from me. She’s not spending all these many hours on me, roughly 300 hours over the last seven years or so, and listening to and acknowledging my many phone messages that I leave almost weekly between sessions, just to receive her small pay. The session fees at the clinic where I see her have gone from $15 to $20 to now $25. And as an intern, at first she didn’t get any of it. It all went to the clinic. A year or so later she got some of the money, but I have no idea how much. Even if she were to get all of it, which she certainly does not, spending 50 minutes a week, and now it’s often twice a week, listening and doing her work in sessions with me, is not something I would do at that fee. Does she do it soley for the credits towards her 3,000 hours of internship required to receive her license? When I suggested that idea to her, she was perhaps offended or irritated, but was genuinely scornful of the thought.

So at long last I believe what she has been trying to get through to me: the very fact that she shows up as per our appointments, has often intense sessions with me, means she cares. She has been trying for years to get me to understand that what she does for me in our discussions is far more intimate, compassionate, and productive than any possible relationship we could have outside of the session room. The major difference is, and this is a big one for me, she does not allow me to get to know her. I already do know a lot more about her than she wishes. I have “crossed boundaries” several times, the most invasive being my looking her up on Facebook.

I just read the specific rules and laws pertaining to therapist/patient interpersonal relations, and I now see where she’s coming from. Some very specific, damaging laws exist on this matter until two years after therapy has terminated. But the two year waiting period specifically refers to sexual relationships. I could not locate anything about a “waiting period” for platonic relationships after therapy termination. I brought this up in my session yesterday (8/7/13), and she told me about the ethical issue of being post-therapy friends. That also tells me that she might like to be my friend one day, if not for the APA ethics issues. At least I hope so. The APA is vague on the subject of post-therapy friendships. They discourage it, but seem to not forbid it. Therapists are not permitted to suggest or discuss having a post-therapy relationship with a client during the time they are the client's therapist. It's not just her personal refusal to discuss it; it is one of the restrictions placed on therapists. Yay!

Jeff, You post is so thoughtful and insightful, I am sure your T loves having you as a client! I can see how amazing it feels to realize that listening is the best way of caring! Your T sounds so lovely and truly caring!

Even if you are not able to be friends with T afterwards, your therapy relationship is so worthwhile and precious, I hope you will always hold her caring in your heart.

Thank you so much and I will be reading your excellent post over and over! Perhaps even share it with my own T!

It's finally starting to sink in, after all these years. It's having an odd effect on me. I'm not much of a crier; much too "manly" for that. But in the last week or so I have felt tearful several times. I am guessing this may be a good thing. I'll post more as events occur.

Hi Jeff, just wanted to say I am thinking of you and I read your posts. Take care and please keep us updated on how things are going.

Here's an update: I told my T about this realization about her caring about me, and she of course made sure to put it in terms of her caring in her professional way, the same way she cares about her other clients.

Odd relational issues. Recently I brought up a few things she said from previous sessions, and she denies having said them, but she won't tell me what she remembers saying, or even that she doesn't remember the conversation at all. She just goes with the idea that I made up her part of conversations to suit my liking. What she does is ask me why I feel it's important to go back over old conversations. She tells me that what I thought I heard her say is the important issue. This has been going on for a few months, and I'm confused and upset. It makes me wonder about my sense of reality. I certainly have a vivid imagination, but I also have a good memory. I don't recall conversations verbatim, who does?, but I certainly remember the gist of conversations.

What do you make of it?

Hi Jeff. I'm new here. I imagine you are more asking people who know you better what to make of this but I had to comment on how frustrating and crazy-making that would feel to me.

I've had experiences like that with therapists in the past, and now I personally wish I would have stuck to my guns and forced them to concede a little more ground to my point of view. Or really got to the bottom of why we saw things so differently, if that was in fact the case.

But that is just me and of course I don't know enough about you to say anything real insightful.

Or it's how you are interrupting what she says? Especially with transference (I've had transference issues) that something said by a therapist to a client can have more meaning to the client, especially the client that is smitten.

I have a very good memory (for good and bad things) and I have brought up things to my therapist that he has said in the past, just to make sure he still feels the same way.

Sometimes therapy is mind numbing...

HiJeff,

I find your posts interesting. I understand exactly what you mean when you say T tries to deny what you heard her say. I take this to mean that T is trying to "alter" your recollection of what she said because she may regret having said it. Not that she didn't mean saying it to you, but that on second thought, she may have realized that she should not have said it to you for professional reasons.

Sorry to say this, but I don't like that sort of treatment one bit. The T is trying to change the past in your mind. I see it as a psychological trick. It is a scary concept but I suppose they believe it works with some clients. I know you are really attached to her but I see this as a sign to make an immediate exit. Or, just call her out on this little game that T's use. She'll probably deny it, ha, ha. Sorry, she's treating you like that Jeff, you sound like a really nice, intelligent man. I was really insulted by such tactics when T used it with me.

Hi Marsdotter, bunnylove45, and Michelle25,

I am glad to see I'm not alone on this "faulty memory" issue. I left a very emotionally charged phone message after our session last week. I will be forcing the point in my session tomorrow, as Marsdotter suggested. I have even considered hiding a small voice recorder in my pocket during our sessions for the sole purpose of giving myself, and her, a reality check.

I keep having the feeling that as part of their training, Ts learn to keep some "tricks up their sleeves" to fulfill an agenda we clients may never understand. I know this sounds like some wacky conspiracy theory, but I don't mean it in any malicious way. Just that it's part of the process that we clients aren't privy to. I have a fantasy that one day she and I can have a heart-to-heart conversation in which she tells me the secrets of the methods she has used during therapy; things that drive me nuts, but may be helpful in the end. That could be more enlightening than anything we talk about in sessions, or so I imagine. When people on this site talk about quitting therapy or switching to another T, I often wonder if there is some final wrap-up that they miss that would otherwise give them some deep insight. But that's probably just me. I have always been agitated when secrets have been withheld from me.

It may be some kind of psychological trick, or regret for having said something that she might view as potentially career endangering, as Michelle suggested. However, playing mind games with a client is strictly forbidden according to the rules of the APA. What would be worse than misspeaking, would be screwing with a client's sense of reality in order to cover up something she might have said that she now regrets. After first talking about my infatuation for her, I made it abundantly clear that I will never do anything to intentionally harm her in any way. In my mind, therapist/client privacy goes in both directions. I didn't want her to feel creepy or in any way endangered by me if she outright rejected me or told me to find another T. She has been very understanding of my feelings, and has never treated me as if talking about my feelings for her is inappropriate. After all, she is a T. I once told her that if she were to bring a gun to a session and shoot me, assuming I survived, I would imagine she must have shot me for a good reason. I know that borders on insanity, but it is how I feel, and illustrates how much I trust her.

I'll post more as this unravels.

I've had more anger towards my T in the past month than in the past 7+ years of therapy combined. I'm angry at her for allowing me to wonder, for over 4 years, if we might try being friends one day, after therapy is over. It angers me enormously that she has denied making statements that I am 90% sure she made, without even trying to come up with an alternate statement she might have made, or just saying she doesn't remember having made such a statement. It makes me doubt my sense of reality. I have started to mistrust her. But then again, I do trust that her motives are in my best interest. She and I have talked about this at some length, and I have concluded that there is no possible reason for her to do or say anything with malicious intent. She has the integrity of a diamond. She works very hard to get me to think about my thoughts, what is under the surface, what is the origin of specific feelings, why are these feelings so all-pervasive, what are these feelings trying to accomplish, etc. etc.? She tries to teach me, in her own way, to be my own therapist.

What have I come up with? Why have I been so agitated by her as of late? Here goes.

In the 7+ years I have been in therapy with her, she has told me many times that I take abstract ideas and insist on turning them into concrete concepts and scenarios. I speak mostly in a cognitive mode, and not from my emotions. Early in therapy she said that although I talk to her about my anger, and the problems my anger causes in my relationships, I have never shown her anything but my caring side. I did not "demonstrate" my anger to her. I was always calm and in control of my emotions in front of her.

Now she is trying none too subtly, to treat me in ways that people in the "real" world treat people. She is probing my mind to see how I handle frustration, interpersonal relationships, anger. She catches me when I try to avoid uncomfortable subjects. Because I have told her how I have dumped friendships and potential friendships when they annoy me, she is intentionally annoying me, I believe. She "takes the steering wheel" as my wife likes to call it, by taking control of a conversation and not allowing me to take it back. That frustrates and sometimes angers me. Sometimes I see a little smile break through on her lovely face, which she quickly squelches. I believe that means what she is doing is working the way she wants it to work. In a nutshell, she is trying to get me to see her as a real person with flaws, annoying qualities, occasional harsh attitudes. She is trying, I think, to remove herself from the pedestal I have held her on for all these years, to get me to understand that what I have in my life is better than any relationship I might possibly have with her after therapy is complete. The fantasy I have of walking off into the sunset with her is just that, a fantasy. Nothing real about it. Why would a friendship with her be any better than any other friendship I've had? Because she understands me better, because I am "special" to her, more than I am to anyone else, because "it will be better with her"? All nonsensical dreams.

What could be more caring than what she is doing towards getting me to take more interest in myself, my wife and kids, my relationships with other people, and to feel better about who I am and what I do? My wife has a very long history of putting up with my crap (and there's been lots of it), of caring for me and about me, of being there for me far more than my T ever could be. What my T is attempting to do, I believe, is take my focus off her and put it back where it belongs: with my life, my wife, my family. Why have I had such strong feelings for her? The old textbook reasons of "she is attentive, talks only about me, does not argue with me, helps me to understand myself". Yes, all very alluring reasons. All make sense. But it ends there, in that little room where we have our sessions. Outside of that room, my life is mine and her life is hers. She doesn't want me to have her as a crutch to lean on when things at home are difficult and the road is rough. She wants me to be strong enough to handle things without her, to be independent of her, to not say to myself, "I can always rely on my T." If for no other reason, that is why she doesn't want to allow me to have hope that we might be friends one day. If I thought we might be friends, I could let my life go to hell because "I will have her to lift me up." I still want her, but the longing is easing up. For now.

That was kind of inspiring, Jeff.

I'm glad it was inspiring. It's taken me years to get to this point. The odd thing is, even though I think that I finally understand what's going on, I still love her, I still want to be with her, and all the stuff I've posted before. Even when I'm frustrated with her, angry at her, I still love her; like a spouse or a child (?).

Maybe you love her as a fellow human, without having to trace it back to some unmet need in your life.

It seems clients who have infatuation/love/admiration/ for their therapist it is said to be rooted from some unmet childhood need.

I happen to think it can be a feeling in the 'here and now' and not attributed to something not formulated in childhood.

But, that is just my opinion as a woman who was attracted to her therapist.

Bunnylove45,

I agree with you, but my T has insisted that my love for her is not about her, but about the need to have unconditional love that I did not get as a child; my mother was very erratic swinging between emotional outbursts of anger, and what she probably thought were her demonstrations of her love. If she were alive today, she would probably be diagnosed as bipolar. There may be some truth to that, but it doesn't feel like the whole truth. And feelings are what therapy is all about.

A few months ago, in the middle of a heated discussion, I brought up the topic of transference and my T said, "Transference hasn't worked for you." At that moment I didn't respond to the comment, figuring she would elaborate on it later, but she didn't. During the following session I asked her what she meant by that comment, and of course she tossed it back to me and asked me what I thought she meant; typical therapist-speak. We went back and forth: "You made the statement. What did you mean by it?" "What's important is what you think I meant. What goes on in your mind is much more important in therapy than what was actually said." Etc. etc. My final comment was, "I think you meant that, unlike transference, I don't love you as a substitute for my mother, but I love you for who I see in front of me, here in this room, and additionally, from the tidbits I have gleaned about you from the Internet." Very much as you just said, Bunnylove. As I recall the exchange, I let her get away with side-stepping what I said. Since I didn't get a definitive answer from her, I will assume that my assertion was correct; I love her for what I see in her, not for what I didn't get from my mother. It would be so much simpler if the mother-substitute idea was "the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

Thanks for reading and responding to my self-absorbed letter writing.

Here's a piece from Recognizing and Managing Erotic and Eroticized Transferences:
“Eroticized transference. Eroticized transference is an intense, vivid, irrational erotic preoccupation with the therapist characterized by overt, seemingly egosyntonic demands for love and sexual fulfillment. The patient is unable to focus on developing appropriate insights and attends the sessions for the opportunity to be close to the therapist, with the hope that the therapist will reciprocate love.” That nails it for me.

Here's something I wrote to my T a few days ago. I believe it illustrates my intense obsessive feelings for her, both good and bad feelings, like one has for a person one cares about greatly:

Please tell me at the time of the occurrence when I am doing or saying something that bothers you. I know if someone was as persistent as I have been to try to get an answer from me that I didn’t want to give, it would annoy or anger me. But you have told me that judging others by my own standards is not helpful in relationships. Until recently, you gave no clues of feeling uncomfortably pressured, so I assumed you were OK with my persistence, and you were dealing with it from a therapist’s professional standpoint. To be told now, after all these years, that you felt uncomfortably pressured, disturbs me. Not telling me how my persistence has made you feel, and then insisting that I somehow should have known, makes me feel intimidated. I feel ashamed and I assume you are correct that “I should have known”. Next, I ask, “How was I to know without your telling me?” You then squash my objections by making statements like, “You just said that you would feel pressured, but you put that aside and assume it’s OK for you to do.” Hostility rises up in me.

You certainly made it known to me that my prying into your life was off limits. However the “can we try being friends some day” question was not addressed in a similar manner. You have told me many times that I do not know what you are thinking or feeling, and anything I assume to know is just created by my own imagination. So why do you think I might suddenly know what you are feeling?

For example, in anger management class Monday night, I made a comment pertaining to something a woman in the class had said, as is typically done in the class. The woman got very angry at my comment, while others in the class told me that my comment was not objectionable. But the woman was outraged that I would “tell [her] what to do,” which apparently is a big anger trigger for her. “Telling her what to do” was not my intention. Now that I know about this trigger, I will be careful to avoid it. But without being told by her, I had no way of knowing.

So please tell me when you object to something I say or do at the moment it occurs. Don’t put me in the position of trying to figure out your preferences. I spend too much time in such endeavors as it is, and you try very hard to keep your thoughts and feelings out of my reach. You have made it clear to me that I am wasting therapy time, as well as time spent in my life outside of therapy, trying to figure you out. You insist that I don’t know you and I don’t know what you think or feel. Why would you then expect me to know what you think or feel? I really do not do well with such mixed messages. In fact I find it quite upsetting and dislikable. If your purpose is to upset me in order to serve an intended therapeutic benefit that I don’t understand, you have succeeded in upsetting me. If you are trying to make yourself distasteful to me by making self righteous contradictory pronouncements, what you are doing is on the right track.

As for my crossing boundaries that you clearly did set regarding my looking for information about you, I am once again asking for your forgiveness. It will be very difficult for me to have therapy sessions with you if you continue to hold a grudge against me. I am not inferring that I am considering quitting therapy. Whether we like it or not, I think we are pretty much stuck with each other. I am certainly not asking you to forget what I have done, I am asking you, as my therapist and as a lovely human being, to understand my motivation and try to forgive me.

Jeff, what gave me insight into what I was doing, feeling romantically towards my t, was imagining a typical Saturday doing chores and shopping together. Not going antiquing or to a college football game ie not a date. Just you two together, not romantic. What do you talk about? Who drives? What do you do? Where do you go? Can you really picture it? The point of this is not to show how hopeless it is, but rather to trigger something in you - a memory, a feeling - a jumping off point for the discussion of transference. For me it brought back memories of Saturday shopping trips with my mom (for clothes - usually hers) and with my dad for groceries. Did I feel valued during those trips etc.

Instead of asking her if you can be friends later, can you talk about what it would mean to you to be friends later? That can be a very hard question.

Perhaps she is also being subsidized by the clinic.

At any rate, it shouldn't matter whether or not she is being paid, we assume that the T is there to do her JOB, and the caring is a by-product of that.

Hi Hankster,

Thank you for your insight. I feel very neurotic even having this obsession, let along writing about it. Yes, what you are talking about are the brass tacks of a normal family relationship, as my T has told me. However, the kind of relationship I imagine is that of a friend, not a wife. When I get together with a friend, it is more like a "date" (playing games, watching a movie, etc.) than doing grocery shopping, although shopping can certainly be part of it. Along with the fantasy of "walking into a sunset on a beach, while holding hands", I see a friendship in which we do some fun things together, but also help each other with sundry chores, etc. Along with that, the concept of "friends with benefits" is certainly there.

My wife and I have been together for 30 years (holy crap!) and aren't seriously talking of getting a divorce, although that comes up. My wife knows about my feelings for my T and has been terrific about it; nicer than my T has been. I have a session with her this evening, and along with the anxiety attack that I just had, which is my first in many years, I will try to talk with her about what being her friend means to me.

I am going through a very difficult time in my life: three kids in college (empty nest), turned 60 in April, make very little income (my wife makes most of our income as a piano teacher), have this obsession with my T which has gone on for over five years, and take medication for depression that I have suffered from most of my life. What I probably need to do is get out more, acquire more friends, get some job that makes me feel good about myself, and find something else, other than my T, to be passionate about. Since I am semi-retired, I have too much time to ruminate.

[QUOTE What I probably need to do is get out more, acquire more friends, get some job that makes me feel good about myself, and find something else, other than my T, to be passionate about. Since I am semi-retired, I have too much time to ruminate.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you've answered your own question!

My therapist thinks I need to get out and commune with people. I lead an isolated life and that in itself presents challenges.

Hi Jeff - your explanation helped a lot! That's exactly what I mean - NOW what? I'm in kinda the same sitch as you are, except I'm an old SWF. I read okcupid ads and it's like dang these guys keep busy - I need a nap after just reading them. Our ts can't give us purpose in our lives, but they can help us find purpose in our lives.

Hi Hankster,

I like your last sentence: "Our ts can't give us purpose in our lives, but they can help us find purpose in our lives." I have this nagging feeling that if my T were part of my "real" life, outside of therapy, then my life would have a purpose. Intellectually I know that's not true, but my emotional attachment says otherwise.

Ooh! Steve Harvey (the comedian) has an afternoon talk show now, and he recommends women "not give up the cookie" until the man has an emotional attachment to you. Now how do I do that? Ie get men to become emotionally attached to me? Or do I have to become a t? Sorry if this is off topic, but honestly I didnt know men even did this sort of thing, now I hear it twice in one week and it's still only Thursday! Quite serious here.

Hankster,

You didn't know men did what sort of thing? I don't follow you.

Jeff