Trying to get out

These are the things he's said to me:

"I would never lie to you or be careless with your heart. I'll hold it tenderly in my hands."

"We can be together mentally, emotionally, and spiritually."

"Would you like to hold hands right now?"

(From a poem he read me three times after I told him my feelings): "You do not have to be good. You do not have to walk through the desert for a hundred miles on your knees repenting. You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves."

"You should watch this Brene Brown video on the power of vulnerability."

"I'm not rejecting you. If it wasn't for the boundaries of psychotherapy we'd be having wild passionate sex right now. I'd be all for it."

"Your fantasies sound very appealing."

"I'm not rejecting you. I find you very beautiful and attractive and desirable."

"OK, fine. You're right. I'm rejecting you. This time here in the office to talk about your feelings is all I can offer you."

(After telling him my friends say I'm addicted to him) "Are you saying all addictions are bad? You can be addicted to being kind!"

After sending him an email saying I'm suffering badly and this is nothing like an addiction to being kind: "I hear that you're feeling in pain. If it's too much to bear, I suggest you make an extra appointment."

After asking him what's the point in still coming to see him. "We discussed this. There's value in mourning the loss of the relationship we're not going to have."

I must have sucker written all over my face. I have given this guy SO much money.

Ramona, this last post with quotes from your T really reminded me of another story I read on here, from a member called nicoleflynn, maybe try to find it. She had an older thread where she shared things her T said to her over time. Yours sound more benign now, but maybe just the beginning...

I just found it:
https://forums.psychcentral.com/roma...another-t.html

Mine sound benign? Maybe I'm overreacting. He's definitely not grooming me. He has clearly stated he won't be with me. I wish that they WERE just the beginning, but I don't think they are. He does not want me and when I asked him to flat out reject me he did. I think I might just be an ugly loser. Thanks for clarifying!

BYE EVERYBODY!

No, you are definitely not overreacting. I wasn't clear when I said "more benign", I just meant that not that explicitly sexually provocative and intrusive. But equally disturbing given the impact on you. I don't think interactions and relationships like these are fun for any client.

I'm sorry if my last post was hurtful, very definitely did not meant it to be! Just wanted to show you something that seemed similar to me and what it ended up over time. Please don't leave

Aside from your job a few years ago, is this the first time anybody has said no to you? I cant figure out where you are coming from.

Eta - like you say, i want this. He says, that cant happen, but we can look at it. But you dont really look at it, you take that to mean, ask him again and maybe he will change his mind. But that is not what he is saying. Hes saying, lets look at what it MEEEEEEEANS. Which is why im asking, do you usually get your way?

This line jumped out at me:

"I'm not rejecting you. If it wasn't for the boundaries of psychotherapy we'd be having wild passionate sex right now. I'd be all for it."

Because it's very explicit. I don't just mean sexually explicit. But the fact that he's saying, if it wasn't for the ethics of his profession, he'd sleep with you (even though both of you are married--right, he's married, too?) That statement crossed a line. Some of the others didn't, or are subject to interpretation. But that one, there's no questions...

When do you see T2 again? Hugs...

i have found this article to be incredibly helpful at providing me with the insight and courage to finally leave my T of many years, who, although was not sexually abusive to me, i feel was quite emotionally abusive throughout much of our therapy together. please try to have a look at this: Why We Stay: How Childhood Loss, Abandonment and Neglect Can Make It Hard to Leave an Abusive Therapist ? Surviving Therapist Abuse

He's terrible. Absolutely terrible

I have read that it is not a good idea to let a client know of the t's attraction to them; it is confusing. My t led me on for years. If you would like to know what he said and did, yu can pm me.

A few of the many leading comments my t made: If I were not married I would probably go for it. You are in my heart and in my head.

Hey, I don't think that's what Xyn was getting at.

Your therapists behavior is clearly confusing and inappropriate. I assume he struggles with it as well which is why you're getting these mixed messages of "I would have sex with you" and "i am rejecting you"

I hope you don't stop posting here for support

Your T's behaviour is not benign. I understand why the suggestion would upset you. Trust me when I say it is not benign. In fact, it is highly dangerous.

I have felt the overwhelmingly painful LONGING you write about. It is a need far more painful than can be described in words, and those who have not experienced it cannot begin to understand it. I was obsessed with thoughts of my T that drove me to the brink of insanity. Thankfully, my T handled it the right way - by talking about it openly, honestly, and keeping himself out of the room. He knew that my feelings about him were not really about him (as much as I thought it was, it wasn't - and I suspect it is the same for you). I can't imagine how damaging it would have been for him to admit his feelings for me. It's his job to keep that **** out of the room. Therapy is supposed to help you, not harm you, and by gaslighting you in this way he is harming you.

JunkDNA said it best when she advised you to get away from him. Trust her, she knows.

I suspect he's telling you to speak to others about it because he's trying to make it appear insignificant. By encouraging you to tell others he's building a case to defend himself. See how you're questioning reality because of that gesture? You know the truth, hold tight to it in the face of his inconsistency. He may not have intended to harm you, but he should have known that igniting the flames of your passion for him would do just that.

I think you need to get away from him. Start seeing T2 exclusively. You will feel a strong desire to return to T1 to "make sense of what happened", but it will be counterproductive. This is often what causes people to return to abusive relationships or to reenact past traumas. He will not help you make sense of it, in fact he will only make it worse.

Stop seeing him entirely. It will hurt immensely, but it will get easier in time. Work it through with T2. He recognizes that T1 is not good for you. You are not crazy, you are simply confused - for good reason! Let T2 help you work out what happened with T1. Personally, I think T1 allowed himself into the room as a result of his own issues. He may not have meant to cause you harm, but he did, and his attempt to backtrack will only harm you further.

Please get out. You deserve peace.

Una, I understand what your saying.
But whatever this guy is doing she clearly isn't understanding. And he must see the distress she is under so it's his responsibility to see he is doing harm, intentionally or not and fix it.
His current methodology sucks.
It's not up to the client to try and translate what he means, when it's clear she doesn't or isn't able to understand.

The guy is an ***, his wording has been clumsy at best and utterly inept at it's worst.I also agree with whoever said that often Drs and the like get moved up to senior positions when their bedside manners stink. Or there have been "issue's".

((RaRo)) if your still around Hon. Just remember that if you found your sexuality once, you CAN do it again without him.
Do you remember me mentioning my drug habbit, not only does all addiction suck, cos it is dependency on an outside force.
But too much of even the best thing can be bad for you.
This guy is an ***.
Talk to your other T explicitly about just how severe your discomfort is. This is way above a little bit of ET. Maybe she can recommend something to ground you or bring you down.

Please take care

yes!

You've got me all wrong. No, this is not the first time anyone has said no to me. I've been beaten down and rejected for most of my life. No, I do not usually get my way. I keep getting hopeful that I'll get the things I want. I work hard. I try to be open. I get kicked in the face over and over and over again. I find people who don't care if I get run over by a truck, mistake them for trustworthy people, give them my time and money, and then end up devastated when I realize I am nothing to them. That's how things are for me.

So if you could get him to say yes to you, what would that MEAN? Follow the fantasy and you can find the issue(s). Thats how i do.

That or drop him and work with t2. T1 and you are not a good therapeutic match. We need someone who can get close but keep their distance. T1 has that backwards somehow. My prev t was like that. Personal closeness, professional distance - bad. Professional closeness, personal distance - good; you feel you can trust them and yourself. Your inner child needs to feel safe, no matter what is happening to the outer woman!

Eta - my prev t was like, if youre not smart enough to make me stop hurting you, then i will keep hurting you and taking your money, why not? I think your t1 is doing this.

What it would mean if he finally said yes would be that I am truly desirable and attractive--so much so that he wouldn't care about the rules. I want to feel THAT desirable and attractive that he just can't help himself.

But clearly he CAN help himself because he won't have a physical relationship with me. He's bad at therapy with me. It's just the way that he LOOKS at me and tells me that I fill him with desire and that he'd absolutely have wild passionate sex with me if it weren't against the rules that keeps me going back. I want to hear it over and over and over again. It makes me feel desirable and I have always felt undesirable. Even though my husband loves me and tells me I'm beautiful and sexy, I have an intense need to hear it from THIS MAN. THAT'S what I'm handing over all of my money and sanity for.

Would it help at all to think he's protecting you by not having a physical relationship with you? I mean, he's already not acting ethically right now, in what he has said to you. And that's negatively affecting you.

For him to actually have physical relations with you would really cross a line. And it sounds like it's pretty much always damaging to clients, no matter how much the client think they would want it.

Spend some more time talking with T2 and do your best to avoid seeing T1. That's the best thing you can do for yourself. Because you just sound tortured right now...

Ramona, you have a need to hit bottom. Nobody is going to stop you from going there. If i remember correctly, you are replaying your relationship with your father. You really want your father to see you as good, as special. Thats why t1 is so compelling. As skies said earlier, its not about sex per se. Its that WANTING to change their mind, to change how the story comes out, to change the ending, to make it come out right - thats what keeps us stuck. Usually we get stuck having bad relationships, getting involved with the same type of guy over and over. But getting stuck with a t shortens and quickens the loop, more money faster.

This is all correct. I've been wondering what bottom looks like for a very long time now. I'm just like "how much lower can I go?" I was browsing gun websites online a few weeks ago and looking up state waiting period laws because I thought blowing my brains out would be preferable to how much it was hurting. I feel like that should have been bottom, right? I started talking to T2 about it at that point and I told three friends and I've felt different since then but also intermittently suicidal. I'm pretty freaking out to learn what bottom actually looks like.

Hitting bottom can be a good thing. I was in my mothers attic and was like, if i ever get out of here, let me remember THIS.

Seeing him Friday.

Did you tell him these^ exact things?

Does he actually still reinforce it verbally?

I'm not actually sure there is necessarily a "bottom" with this. You can keep seeing him for many more years this way, spending all the money, time and mental energy. I don't know... but after a while I imagine it might not have the same effect on you except more frustration with the limitations and feeling trapped.

Ramona, you don't want to hit bottom. You might not get back up. I see you wanting to test your therapists limits as well as your own. I sincerely wish you could break away from this man. He is causing you pain and torment. Think about how much worse that would be if sex actually occurred.

There is ZERO danger of sex occurring. He won't have me.

Now I'm going for two reasons: 1. The way he looks at me when I talk about my sexual fantasies with him, and 2. To express my anger at him for ****ing up my head so badly.

Seeing T2 tonight.

Well, regardless, I meant that I wish you could realize that having sex with him will not make anything better. It's not going to be a magic.cure. whether or not he wants you, I think it's important to explore this within yourself or maybe even with your other, ethical therapist...because this type of pattern is one that will likely emerge in your life repeatedly