Trying to get out

This is pretty crazy. I had a session with T2 last night. He saw T1 at a training session this weekend and they talked about me for about 45 minutes, T2 said. T2 said T1 expressed that he is "very remorseful and ashamed" about what happened with me. But that he also said to T2: "she's the one who brought up the feelings first." T2 said he literally sat down with him with the Licensing Board packet and showed him line by line where he violated the rules. He said T1 was extremely scared and worried that T2 was going to report him. T2 said he couldn't report him without my permission which I had not given.

T1 also apparently asked T2: "What should I do?" to which T2 responded: "You should write her an email owning up to everything that you did, take complete responsibility and express your sincerest apology." T1 said: "I'm not going to do that." T2 said: "Because you're covering your ***." T1 said: "Yes."

I've now told T2 I'm putting an end date of today on my release of information for him to talk to T1 because I don't want him to know any more about me.

I'm really upset and angry and sad, but glad that I got this information. I'm glad to know that he's feelings some fear. I've been choking on panic over him for years. I also wondered if perhaps he had completely forgotten that I existed already. Apparently I still am on his mind, although only as a potential liability.

The amazing thing here is that he didn't know enough to be scared until T2 pointed out to him how seriously he broke the rules. It really sounds like he is dangerously clueless.

I know. How is that even POSSIBLE that he's that clueless? Is he just feigning cluelessness to shirk responsibility? But no--maybe not, because he didn't seem worried about me telling other people what was going on with him--he actually ENCOURAGED it. He encouraged me to tell my husband. He said "It's not your fault. You can't control the way you feel about me." He has been practicing for about 10 years I think--licensed with a masters and a PhD--how can he not have ANY idea that this was wrong? I tell people who have never been to therapy in their lives and before I can even get to the really bad parts of the story, they cut me off and say "Oh my God you have to report him."

I am SO at sea over all of this. My stomach is WRECKED and has been for months. I have to take three pills to go to sleep and that barely even works.

I wrote to T2 with some follow up questions about his discussion with T1, asking him to honestly tell me if T1 inquired about my current state of mental health at all. I wrote him yesterday and haven't heard back yet, but I know he's super busy--or maybe he just feels ****** about having to tell me "Nope, T1 didn't ask at all."

I know it takes 7 years to become a master in your field, to get those 10,000 hours in, but maybe it takes longer in medical / human type fields. Like twice or three times as long. Just because it takes that long to come up against all the variables. And the field is constantly growing. Cuz yeah i am pretty appalled.

I got my MSW but didn't pursue a license. That takes 3,000 hours in the field. I just looked it up and it looks like it's 3000 to get your clinical psychologist license as well.

"Just so glad today that I'm free of him. I am so confused still about what happened. I think back on so many times that he seemed to be truly kind to me. I really felt like he cared about me and that I was important to him--then I look at our emails from over the last year and there were times when he was straight up cruel.

I don't understand what happened. Part of me truly does blame myself, because him meanness didn't really show itself until after I revealed my feelings about him.

I wonder if it was just difficulty handling my feelings or something that happened in his personal life that caused him to change. Or did he not change at all, and I was just blind this whole time?"

--
Relating to this today. Still confused. What happened? Why? why me? The last few days I've been stuck ruminating- how far back did this go? When did he decide to see how far he could exploit me? Was he ever trying to help me? Was he just marking time and cashing checks?

To think I absolutely trusted him. My father passed away and I actually asked my mother to postpone the out-of-state funeral so I could see him one more time.

My poor mother- I worried about her after my father died. I even sent her to AbusivePDoc for grief counseling. I spoke glowingly about how he cared. My mother had never ever seen a counselor. The session apparently didn't go how she imagined. She told me later she didn't know what was so great about him. She said he sat there silently throughout the hour. The silence confused her. She had never seen a counselor before and didn't know what to do. He wouldn't talk to her. I really hate him for putting her through that.

Precaryous YES--WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?

Did I mention this already? When T1 saw T2 at a training last weekend, T1 suggested that T2 propose to me that he (T1) come to one of my sessions and that T2 mediate so he could explain himself. Can you ****ING imagine? I've spent FOUR ****ING MONTHS pining for him, fighting the urge to call him every day, struggling and drowning, diarrhea for MONTHS now--I've developed IBS over all of this--and he thinks it would be useful for me to have him waltz into a session that I'M PAYING FOR with the therapist that helped me escape him so that he can try to weasel out of any responsibility?

I told one of my friends who has been supporting me through this a lot that it hurts so much to know that he really doesn't care about me, and she said that he could still simultaneously care about me and also do these things. She's been very supportive of me and was one of the people who really helped me break away and I guess she's just trying to help me see how complicated things are and I guess it REALLY speaks to my naivete, but I can't currently wrap my mind around how you could care about someone--sincerely--and know that they're ready to blow their brains out over you and keep using them for money and to stroke your own ego. I don't get it.

No. I don't remember reading about this!

If you DO chose a mediator, I suggest you do not use T2. The mediator should be someone unrelated to this group of T's or their referring circle or their insurance carrier.

I get that T2 is important and you're still trying to find a marriage counselor...but i hope you find someone else, soon.

PrevT talked to me about a mediator at one point, but she wouldn't be the mediator.
How can T2 be pulling for your best interest but mediate a meeting between you and T1? Maybe I don't understand mediation, but wouldn't the mediator have to be totally objective and not have an iron in the fire? Maybe someone who knows will chime in and explain mediation.

I agree, though, that you shouldn't have to pay for a session where T1 comes in and tries to explain how HE SCREWED UP.

About simultaneously caring about you and doing these things- maybe, just maybe ONE time- people who care about us make mistakes. But not over and over in so many ways...how can he care? When did he start caring? Maybe I'm not the one to be understanding about this, and especially not tonight, so consider the source.

I get stuck on this one too. I guess I know in my head that it started months before i met Ex T, with a local contractor who pushed me in his direction, and then there was train woman who stole my house and car keys. So I know LAHA had the exploitation planned from the outset. I don't really feel that though. Its too overwhelming to contemplate. I try to concentrate on the good experiences I had during this period instead.

There is no WAY I'm going to a session where T1 tries to explain himself. I've fought tooth and nail to stay AWAY from him for four months, and now he wants to waltz into my therapy session that I'm paying for?

I am so SICK over this dude. I think I officially have Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Literally shitting myself since I heard this news that he wants to see me. So SICK over this guy.

I think he wants to gauge what you think about suing or reporting. He would probably want to BS and schmooze you more...

Have you formally prohibited T2 from talking to T1 about you?
I'd get that in writing.

this is anotherHUGE question i have and have had since the beginning and probably will always have. theres no way really to get an answer to it. yes former T could answer it (like id ever ask), but how do i even know its the truth?

i started seeing him when i was 16. it took him 5 years to make a move on me. i often wonder how long he had been thinking of it, was he waiting ever since the beginning til i turned a more socially acceptable age? or did he go thru something in his personal life that caused him to lack judgement?

it was very gradual how it all happened. but it all occurred within a 6 month time period.

first he told me that he found it so much more enjoyable to have a conversation with me now that i was sober (i had spent those 5 years on drugs 24/7, and was recently clean)

then he suggested i wear shorts to our next session

i wore shorts and he came into the waiting room and pretended to fall on the floor...like he was shocked.

and then i got put in the hosptial and we talked on the phone every night. he said some sexual things, like i was telling him a patient was finger-fukking his sandwich. he said i can think of other things one could finger-fukk

he told me to write a list of things i wanted or needed from him. so i did. i wrote that i wanted a hug. we had NEVER TOUCHED before.

i got out of the hospital and we had a session. near the end- he asked me about something else i had written in the list . (i want you to be a mentor to me)

he asked me a mentor for what? i looked away and smiled. i was thinking sexual things. i didnt say anything, and he looked at me and said

"what if i told you i've thought about it too?"

and that was it.

I sent T2 an email stating that I am hereby ending the release of information and asked him to email me back to confirm that he received it and he did so. The first day after this I felt good, because I felt like I got some of my power back--now HE'S the one wanting to connect with me instead of the other way around and HE'S the one who's feeling nervous all the time. I had a good Saturday. Sunday was harder--thinking more about how sick the whole thing is. T2 said he did not specifically inquire about my current state of mental health when they spoke which broke my heart, but said that T1 did express "relief and pleasure" to hear that I was no longer suicidal.

Right--I'm no longer suicidal because I'm not seeing YOU psycho! So your proposal is that I see you again? That I let you invade the safe space I've worked hard to create with T2. He either thinks I'm truly stupid or truly crazy. Either way, T2 relaying this message was a good reminder that T1 in NO WAY has my best interests at heart.

I have wished that I could see him every day since I left. I've fought SO HARD not to call him--I wasn't even sure he'd be WILLING to see me--but he is--so he can manipulate me more. It's so hard for me to accept that he is so OK with using me this way. I felt like he was so kind to me and truly cared about me for such a long time. I wish I could gain some understanding of what's happened.

I'm so glad that I've told my husband. It was a hellish two weeks and we haven't even gone to marriage counseling yet, but I seriously couldn't live with it anymore. Every time I tell a new person what happened, they cut me off before I get 30 seconds into the story--before I've even told them the worst of it yet, and they say "Oh my God, did you report him?" One of my friends was so stunned he said "We have to call the police!"

It's so crazy because I feel validated and supported but at the exact same time I'm like "Oh MY GOD, how can I be the only person on Earth who couldn't see this?" It is so hard.

I find it interesting that psychiatrists from the StudentDoctor forum poke fun at people with crushes on their therapists, yet surprisingly they don't mention anything about those among them who do things like this.

I can see why this is so confusing for you.

Omg, Yellowbuggy! Agree with you!

I don't understand- where is their outrage? Where is their disgust for members of their own profession?

Therapist/client exploitation hurts *both* the therapist and the client. Why aren't they talking about that?

I actually asked T and PrevT recently, don't they learn about this in med school? Don't they have an Ethics class?

Is that thread still going about the student doctor forum. It was so disgusting what they wrote.

It's so hard sometimes, because I felt like so many people on this board really cared about my situation while I was still in it and now that I'm free and dealing with the wreckage that my life turned into no one effing cares. Where did everyone go? It's not a sexy story anymore I guess. Just a sad one with a sad lady. No sexy updates of torrid things that happened between us. People seemed to care so much before and now I feel like I've "expired."

They closed it for comments but left it up after ours was deleted. I think their thread was eventually deleted, too.

I'll bet most care.
Maybe they see you have a plan and are waiting for developments?
I dunno.

Ramona, I have not commented before, but I just read this and I have to say you are amazing and your story has turned "sexy" just now, it is about a strong woman taking control through the most devastating circumstances! xxx

Ramona - I'm still here, and I absolutely care. It's just that I'm going through ex-T moving this past weekend and have just not had the emotional reserve to post much. Mostly I tend to think you're a lot stronger than I am, because ex-T is still in my life... even though I know he probably shouldn't be.

Thanks you guys--I'm embarrassed I wrote that. Was feeling kind of on my own last night and abandoned and had a bit of a meltdown.

Seeing the marriage counselor tomorrow. Trying to come to terms with the fact that while T2 was instrumental in helping me break away from T1, he has too much going on in his own life with a very ill child to handle my very complicated situation.

I have been in touch with T3 again. A couple weeks ago I contacted her asking if I could set up an appointment. She wrote back that I absolutely could but that it was very important that I make the decision of my own accord and not because I was being coerced by my husband or his therapist (both of whom very much want me to go to her.) It really made me think--when am I going to start making decisions for myself, so I delayed in responding to her. She wrote back a week or so later saying that she hoped I didn't take her email as a rebuff. I replied to her that it was the most rational, grounded, and thoughtful response I had heard from a therapist in some time and that I'm hoping to get back to her ASAP. I also told her that I've told my husband and am consulting with a lawyer and some other updates on the case.

She replied that she has a lot to say on all of these issues but will refrain from doing so until if/when I decide to add her to my treatment team, because she doesn't want any more boundaries blurred for me.

I think it's pretty clear she's the right person for me to go to. She is VERY expensive, all the way on the other side of town, and means I'll have to stop seeing T2 for financial reasons. I think it's ultimately the right choice, but it's going to be very hard for me to say goodbye to T2.

Jesus I can't stop thinking about T1 wanting to come to a session with me and T2. I have to admit I'm EXTREMELY curious as to what he would say, but also know it would completely push me off a cliff. It's strange to be the one saying, once again, "I'll never see you again"--knowing that I so desperately want to see him again.