Mutual attraction with therapist

I am already crying in anticipation of leaving my current T and maybe seeing him for the last time this week, but it's probably for the better

SoAn,

I’m sorry..this must be very difficult for you. But I feel you are doing a good job looking out for yourself and creating/maintaining healthy boundaries. The sessions are supposed to be about taking care of your needs.

I had something similar happen to me and, unfortunately, I did not question the relationship early enough. The sessions became all about our *relationship* and therapy actually stopped even though I was still paying him. It’s stunning to realize I was paying *him* so that he could get his sexual ‘needs’ met!

I paid HIM!

You are feeling hurt now but you’re also saving yourself from a lot of future grief and added issues.

If I can ask, what did the supervisor say?

Hope you can become established with an ethical female T who can help you work through this grieving plus the concerns that brought you to therapy in the first place.

Hi @precaryous , thank you for commenting, and I'm sorry that you went through that. Your comments help me a in feeling a little bit better about leaving him now, even though I can't really be sure what the right decision is.

As to the supervisor: The first thing I told the supervisor was that I wanted to go back to therapy with him. He was taken aback and apparently had not expected this, despite me having told my current T this 3 weeks earlier (but perhaps that got lost somewhere, that's not necessarily important). We talked about different things, and came to the conclusion that going back to this T was not a good idea, because I did not feel comfortable with him, either.

The supervisor said:
- it is normal for attraction to arise especially between young people, also in a therapeutic context;
- he himself could also feel 'all kinds of things' sometimes, if a female client had a certain laugh, or glance, and that he also experienced this with young women even though he is 60+ (of course, I understand that people are like this - but the explicitness is what makes it uncomfortable for me here);
- he told me that once, he had said something to a client which immediately after saying, he wholeheartedly regretted because he realised it was out of line. He said it was not something inappropriate in itself, but that still within the therapeutic relationship it was not the cleverest comment. I think that perhaps, what he was also trying to tell me here, is that my T possibly had a similar experience and had not intended to tell me what he told me;
- we talked about me being uncomfortable with the situation, and he said, 'So you don't want to experience that in the 'old man version' ', which I found funny (I don't know if this comes across properly in writing);
- we talked about a previous experience I had with a secondary school teacher who made a comment on my body which at the time felt very uncomfortable to me, and that now, I had the same sense of discomfort and unsafety.

This T recommended I talk this through with my current T one more time, and that I could meet the female therapist of the practice. In that sense, I feel that he is sensitive to my needs. The thing I am disappointed about is that as a person, I really like talking to him, I like the way he responds, I like his personality. But as soon as the man-woman dimension comes into play, it makes me uncomfortable and I feel like I am not at the same level / that I am not an equal anymore / that there is a vibe I don't want to join into or a role I don't want to play. This is probably all worth exploring - but not with him, haha. Sadly! Even in this session, I left with a new insight into how I feel about relationships with men, which I won't go further into here. So I really think he's good, but I don't think I can overcome this sense of discomfort enough to be able to work through it with him.

@SoAn Glad your meeting with the supervisor seemed to go well. I agree with the supervisor that attraction between ‘young people’ can happen. The therapist is human, after all. It is my hope your T learns it’s questionable judgement for a T to reveal his attraction of a client *to* the client. Does it benefit the client? Yes, I understand slips happen. Maybe he just made a mistake mentioning it. It happens.

Want to wish you luck if you meet with the male T one more time for closure. Hope you make notes of questions or issues you want to address with him ahead of time.

I have a question about the female T. Is it necessary that you see the female T in their therapy group? I don’t know how your system works where you live. You might be better served if you’re able to find a female T outside of their group. I’m not sure a female T from within their group can be totally objective or totally have your best interest at heart.

This is probably my issue but I would wonder if a female T from their group would also be protective of and feel a loyalty to ‘her therapy group’ when her protection and loyalty should be aimed at you.

Good work, though. I know change is difficult especially when you’ve developed a rapport with this male T.

SoAn, i just wanted to say, you show very good insight into the issues, per your discussion with the supervisor. I have an almost lifelong commitment to feminism and equality (i probably wasnt aware of these issues as an infant, altho they were already affecting me then!), and i have always brought that awareness into my therapy. That doesnt stop a person from having feelings or prejudices or from making mistakes, but i think all we can do is talk about these feelings as needed and decide where to go from there.

I think attraction by itself is not necessarily negative or potentially dangerous. I am also someone who experienced mutual attraction with a good number of (often older) males in school, work, and other professional contexts, including doctors and a therapist. I actually tend to enjoy it a lot and never had an issue with it, it can be very energizing and pleasant, enhance the interactions and productivity. It does not need to be acted out at all and I've learned from my experiences that it's better to just keep the sexual tension and no action, because the action most often turned out disappointing. The feelings themselves though were usually very informative and positive for me. Usually mutual because I tend to lose my interest/attraction quickly if the other person does not feel the same way, if there is no reinforcement.

If the attraction makes someone uncomfortable and/or it negatively interferes with the relationship and efficacy, that's an entirely different thing. I definitely would not want to prolong such a situation and would not enjoy it.

When is your session with him SoAn?

From what you've said, it sounds more like he made a mistake in revealing his attraction to you and maybe he realised that after the event. He's in training after all. But it sounds like you have made a decision to end therapy with him, based on your instincts and this is probably a good thing. Maybe he's not ready as a therapist to go through this with you or perhaps you don't feel ready yourself. What sort of therapy does he practice?

I have a similar experience and decided to stay with the same therapist to see it through. I'm happy to chat over PM if you would like.

Hey @TeaVicar? , I would like that, thanks for offering! My appointment with him is in 8 hours , but I hope it's not suddenly going to be the last session, b/c I am having mixed emotions, at this point. He practices psychodynamic therapy. I will PM you later so we can talk ! It's nighttime where I am now. See you later

Short update:

I have mixed feelings about the session today. My T asked me to be clear to him about what I wanted - fair enough - and when I said what I wanted (see the female therapist and leave him), I thought I noticed in his response that he was unhappy/annoyed with me, so I asked him about that. He said that he felt a variety of emotions, naturally, but that that maybe also has to do with the dynamics that I create. I wasn't sure what he meant by that, and he said that 'for the past year, I have been 'holding him at gunpoint' and 'keeping him in suspense' (the word he used was 'uncertainty'), making sure he knew I could leave at any moment (it's hard to translate true to the feeling - hope it comes across well). I was annoyed by this and told him that that was the only thing I could have done, talk about my doubts, what else could I do.

Then we talked about the reasons why I stayed with him so long despite my doubts, which I thought made sense again and was relevant. The thing that struck me was the wording he chose, to me it sounded like this is a personal matter to him, rather than a professional matter. Perhaps it was just a clumsy word choice on his part - but that was the feeling I got.

I am going to meet the female therapist of their practice when she has time, but not break off right now with this one, because I want to talk about this properly (not very long though), and not leave with this icky feeling of unfriendliness between us.

I'm sorry to hear about what he said. That seems incredibly unfair to you. Almost like a passive aggressive power play to make you feel bad.

Our T's are very different to be sure, but I imagine my T would have expressed the unhappy emotion, but more with the focus of showing he cares. He always backs down on his personal feelings when mine are more important. For example, he will show me parts of his feelings when I need to be supported or have some direction, but if it's going to negatively influence me (make me feel guilty or something) he completely leaves his stuff out of the picture and only shows warm unconditional love.

He would be more likely to say, "I can see this is upsetting you a lot. I care about you and want the best for you. I've noticed that you have been holding me at arms length and keeping the door open to bail and it seems like you are ready to do that now. I'm here for you if you want to try to work on this, you can be honest with me about what's going on and I will give you all the room you need to express your feelings. I also support you if you want to leave, I will do whatever I can to support you."

I'm really sorry that your T seemed annoyed and then pinned it on you. It's like he didn't rise to the occasion here when you needed him. Instead he got stuck in his own feelings.

I wasn't there and only you can decide how you feel about it, but if you want to change therapists go for it! You don't need to close things up with him unless you really want to. He had a chance to be a good T and kinda blew it. Maybe the new T will have some insight or be able to mediate a closure session?

Also it may be worth examining your desire to close things with him so there is no "icky unfriendlyness".

What's that about? Is that a pattern? How have romantic relationships typically ended for you? Is it a way to give him one more one last chance to be what you need? Do he deserve that? Do you feel guilty? Are you the one who needs to clear up the unfriendliness?

Those are just questions to make you think! Some or none of them may be relevant, but it might help you to broaden this out a little and see if any part of this is a pattern or perhaps an attempt to correct a prior pattern or experience.

Just an idea! Lots of hugs for you and you will do what is best for you!

He’s making this all your fault?

I understand he may have slipped when he acknowledged an attraction for you (which he may or may not regret) and not meant any harm.

Did he seem to take any responsibility at all?

This is my stuff but I don’t think I would be comfortable seeing another T within his practice or referring circle.

Those are really good questions to think about, that's helpful and right on the spot. They made me think about perhaps not going back, because I do not see how this can improve, actually.

I do think I feel some guilt somewhere yes, that if I break it off now, I am doing something wrong. And yes, I do hope that in a subsequent session, he would be different. Also, worried that perhaps it is a misunderstanding due to me not explaining something properly. Also: what is a proper way to end therapy over e-mail? (How to phrase that without being too vague, but also without sounding accusing? I don't want to write an e-mail to his supervisor blaming him either, etc.)

It's not how I would have wanted it to end. I have a bad feeling after last session, but I also have good feelings about therapy with him, I gained insights. I'm pretty confused now. (I went to therapy with a small potted plant in my bag as a goodbye present to thank him, but it didn't feel good having this be the last session and I never mentioned it (plant or last session), went back home with the plant lol - but the atmosphere is now totally unfit for even gifting him anything, that's so sad).

Just wanted to get that off my chest, and also, thanks to everyone who has been chiming in! It's really appreciated and helpful

Yeah, that reply sounds much better and more balanced. Come to realize, perhaps in a way I also kind of like that he reacted this way, because it feels more personal and close, except not in a good way (and it's not professional and appropriate). And altogether it doesn't make me feel good at all, and I don't know what's a good way to end it. I don't even dare to ask for such a closure session with a new T present, think he'd say no and also that it would be awkward, I would feel like I would be accusing him, I think I would feel uncomfortable. Under other circumstances, perhaps it would have been a good option.
Maybe I'll ask him if we can do a short phone call, it feels strange to write my reasons in an e-mail.

I think email is a good way to express yourself and not have to hear his reaction. Then again, it's also opening the possibility of being let down due to lack of reaction. Maybe spend the weekend agreeing with yourself to not make a decision? Just let the thoughts and questions rest and go with your gut next week.

I agree that it isn't a great atmosphere for gift giving. I wouldn't feel obligated either. He certainly isn't expecting one.

About gift giving-
Some T’s accept gifts (I’ve learned) and some don’t.
I’m glad you didn’t give him the opportunity to refuse it.

Brought a gift to an outpatient Christmas gathering/party as part of this hospital’s aftercare program. I wanted to give it to the T I’d had as an inpatient.

He refused to accept the gift. I think he explained he didn’t accept gifts from clients. It was a gift I had put some thought into and I thought it would make him laugh. So I said, ‘ok, don’t accept the gift but would you open it?’ He said , ‘No.’

I was upset (being very new to therapy, never expecting this would happen). Then he said something like, ‘Just pretend I died.’ In front of everyone...at a Christmas gathering! I was pretty angry about it. Devastated.

Oh gosh, that's awful Precaryous, how insensitive and unkind. I'm shocked that a therapist could say such a thing.

That was an awful response from your T. I would have been devastated too.

Such a common narrative. Client arrives in therapy looking for help with some problems. Ends up in bizarre relationship quagmire with therapist and exits with new set of problems.

I had strong feelings for one therapist. I said so. The therapist claimed not to have any mutual feelings. Though some signs indicated otherwise. It was degrading and pointless and stupid to go thru this.

What good can come of this? If you reveal ANY sort of feelings for the therapist you are bound to get back something awful:
- reciprocal feelings, which cannot be acted upon
- unrequited feelings, likely to be humiliating possibly damaging, but which are supposed to be tolerated for purpose of "analyzing" the feelings
- ambiguity and evasion
- a bunch of psychobabble and a "diagnosis"

If it becomes intolerable, you run to a new therapist.. Perhaps the new therapist is a matronly type, and you fall into a surrogate mother fixation. Same dilemma... disclose this and face humiliation/rejection/weirdness, keep it a secret (healthy!), bail to yet another therapist. Repeat for next 10+ years.

Hello SoAn, I have to agree with your friends-I do not think this will be therapeutic for you. In fact, I think the opposite is true. I found myself in the same scenario you described. The therapist I was seeing told me that he had sexual and loving feelings for me, that if not for the fact that we were in therapy, he could see us in a relationship. I was in therapy due to struggles with PTSD, including depression, anxiety and suicidal ideation. When the discussion of our feelings became a topic, it was one of the most discussed subjects. His inability to deal with his described feelings for me became yet another problem for me to deal with. I won't go into all the details of what transpired but I will say that I agree with what BudFox said, in the above comment. Therapy is difficult enough without having romantic feelings a part of the mix as well.

I wish you all the best. Sending you hugs.

That's awful, I can hardly think of a less thoughtful way to respond, I'm so sorry about that.
And yes, fair point, perhaps he wouldn't even have accepted.

@BudFox and @CrimsonBlues : yes, makes sense. I still somewhere see how it is related to the issues I'm there for, then again, there is also the side you mention. No easy decisions here.

Sorry you went through that, CrimsonBlues. I assume you left this therapist? Hugs to you too.

Small update:

I e-mailed my therapist, explaining I decided not to return to therapy anymore, giving only a minor explanation of why I was leaving (simply that I had found the last session too uncomfortable), and thanking him for the sessions we have had.
He replied that he would find it a pity if we would end therapy like this, that he hoped I would reconsider my decision to terminate in this way, and whatever I decided, that he wished me the best and good luck with X Y Z. I thought that was a friendly and professional reply, and in a way was happy that he went against my decision (I had anticipated a shorter, businesslike response, just saying goodbye).

It's a couple of days later, and I have not made up my mind yet. I also don't like terminating like this, but I did not arrive at that decision on a whim, either. I will give it some time . Hugs to all of you, it's awesome to be able to share thoughts about this with you.

Big hugs. That can't have been easy.

Thank you, it helps hearing that. I just replied to this e-mail, saying that I want to stick to my decision. I really don't like this way of ending at all, and I wanted to write that to him, but that doesn't make sense to me to write if at the same time I am also still ending it (I feel like that would be rubbing it in his face how bad I felt after last session. I think that's clear enough by my decision anyway).

If we could have said goodbye in a session, there were quite some things I would have wanted to share with him which have been good for me during therapy with him. I experienced feeling accepted (and even liked) while also just having been snappy, which was a first for me. He also has a way of making me aware of the mechanisms in my mind in a mildly ironic way, which was nice, safe, and fun. In some of those moments, I felt most connected to him, because I felt like he saw through me, but also brought up the issue in a way that I felt good about. And all the times that we laughed because we had a good time for a large part of the sessions. We did have a good chemistry in a way. It is sad that we cannot keep working on what we have worked on and built on in the past year. I am going to miss his focused gaze when he was concentrated on listening or talking. I am also going to miss the sweet gaze of sometimes. I am going to think about his chuckle a few more times.