Question & Food for Thought

Rhap, i really am confused because you said

P.S.
"Please everyone let us not argue over God, but rather support this question of concern.
I am seeking proof beyond any words written in a book, that God is indeed REAL, to me and to others. "

Im really sure your original question did not have this rider. Its just that you posed the question and I answered it.

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allthegirls6 said:
Rhap, i really am confused because you said

P.S.
"Please everyone let us not argue over God, but rather support this question of concern.
I am seeking proof beyond any words written in a book, that God is indeed REAL, to me and to others. "

I'm really sure your original question did not have this rider. Its just that you posed the question and I answered it.

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YES..... I did post that statement, but it was not meant to displace anyone from posting to my question.... it was meant for us not to argue over God, but rather to agree to let everyone have their say in this matter, and not to have any one attacked for their belief or for the lack of belief in God.

When I posted my question - I was not looking to prove or disprove, for as I stated I am a Christian (therefor i must believe), but as time passes and as others around you begin to question Gods existence then even that of a Christian may start to wonder............... hence my questions.

I am looking for proof that does not fit into a book or come from the platform of a church, so in essence I guess someone could give me proof that disproves... IS GOD REAL?


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

The story of God is the story of Christ... This makes me think of a sermon I delivered, I will see if I can find it.... I don't even know if I've kept it. Have you ever read the book, "the divine romance" by Gene Edwards? That will give you a better answer to this question and maybe help you to explain it to others. I read the book in a day, I couldn't put it down and by the end I was crying so hard... I really, really think you should read it...

It seems to me that this question has an evolution all of its own.

It has became something rather different than it was at its inception.

However, it would be interesting to know what the proof is that god is real, that might then be a starting place to offer you the proof you seek to say god is not real.

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allthegirls6 said:
It seems to me that this question has an evolution all of its own.

It has became something rather different than it was at its inception.

However, it would be interesting to know what the proof is that god is real, that might then be a starting place to offer you the proof you seek to say god is not real.

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I agree.............

And - in all honestly one cannot ask IS GOD REAL with out hearing from both sides of the fence.

Its All Good... when done with love and support of another in mind, true acceptance no matter the out come.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Im all for that

(Like my former post in this thread, I am using Quick Reply and not addressing anyone in particular. I apologize if anyone thought that they were being singled out - that certainly was not my intention).

Although I believe in God, I don't think that we will find proof that He exists, or proof that He doesn't either. Every person has to find out for themselves. I have prayed and have felt an answer, and that is good enough for me. I don't expect anybody to take my word for it, although they could also pray and listen for an answer. Answers don't even come in the same way for everyone. It could be words in your mind, or a good feeling in your heart. To describe it would be like trying to explain what salt tastes like to a person who has no sense of taste. Or the color blue to a blind person. If we had proof, we would have no need for faith, and I believe that we are here to learn to have faith, among other things.

What is the point in debating? Those who want to know must find out for themselves. Rhapsody I would advise your friend to pray and ask for his or her own experience. You could pray with them also. On any point of belief, if you want to know whether it is true, it is best to go to the source and ask.

Rap

Knowledge. Learn what the Bible really says - not what you were taught it says...if this applies to you.

Just my opinion.

Altered State

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TYMBERWOLV said:
hmmmm must be sad not to be able to believe in anything above our own senses . I believe that there is a creator and that we are not here by the product of the "Big Bang Theory "

Because you every want or wish is not met at your time and place does not state that there is not a God .. You can choose you God if ya want it to be a cabbage so be it .. But I truly believe that there is one I am a product of knowing what faith is regardless of what challenges that life can throw at me

Tymber

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Wow, well said.

RF

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God is real to me. I longed to find Him, to fill the void within. Once someone told me how to believe there is a God is well and good, but until I accepted His redemption (from the Son's work on the cross) I wouldn't really KNOW God. How true this was! The void inside was filled.

Faith? Sure. But faith IS the substance.... I show God is real to me through being able to help others, to care about them and love them even though some of unlovely. Ordinary ppl can't do that without God's love and understanding, imo. It just doesn't come naturally. It's a supernatural thing.

I do have stories of God revealing His work in my life, of His protection... nearly 40 years of them!

I don't know that there is or there isn't.

But I do know there is too much order, too much intelligence, too much beauty... for there not to be some force at work. And that is good enough for me.

And remember, some days we are the 'doubting Thomas' of the bible; he is there to let us know it is okay to have those times of doubt. Sometimes my times of doubt come when there is so much pain evident in the world. Or when someone states they escaped death or disaster because God was looking out for him/her; does that mean God was not looking out for the less fortunate in that circumstance? I don't know. I can't know. And I can't spend my life trying to prove somethng I can't prove (or disprove).

So some days I have faith and some days I don't. That is just the way it goes for me. For those that can sustain hope and faith, I am happy for them!

ECHOES

Faith without works is dead.

Yes, you have to act on what you believe, and put it into practice. Use it or lose it definitely applies, I think.

My reality of God is my own testimony..a reality that noone can take from me..I know that God is real because he healed my daughter's cleft palate..when we were told that she would never speak correctly, without surgery, due to her cleft palate(a hole in the roof of her mouth where it did not fused together)we prayed and trusted that she would be healed..her speech therapist said that her speaking correctly, was slim to none, because she was already 4 yrs. old..we prayed and her speech was corrected in less than 6 months..then her plastic surgeon did an intense x-ray which showed that her cleft palate was healed..His report said that "barring a miracle from heaven, there is no explanation of why this condition has disappeared." I smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day for over 10 years..I had severe health problems because of it..I wanted to quit, but could not..I prayed that I could stop..For three days I felt a washing over me..I cannot explain this in words...but on the third day, I was set free from smoking.. no desire, no need..my 3 sisters were totally amazed because out of all of us, I smoked the most...I have not had or desired a cigarette since,and it has been 20 years..Faith is unseen...and so is hope...these are only a couple of the miracles that I have seen in my life..and yet, they can be seen as something else...my mind, and control of it caused these things to come to pass...we can all have "miracles in our lives, things that have no truly worldly explanations". Someone can say that I created these things to come to pass, by my own power..
For me, to prove that there is a God, is to walk in Love..to cherish and respect those who have been broken..because of the sin of man, and the free will that a benevolent God has given us, many have been abused and broken...and broken by the ones who should have loved us the most..for me Jesus is the representative of what is good...He was broken, abused, and abandoned...Personally, I was abuse in every way as a child..and hated that life,yet I married someone who abused me and our children..In my own intellect I knew better, yet submitted to it...because I walked in my own understanding..free will was given to me..and I failed...not because I am a failure, but I come from a place of abuse..I can share my many experiences and miracles with God, but more importantly to me is to share what I believe He is...there is always a natural explanation to a miracle...But to love someone with the love that has been shown to us..A love that passes all understanding...a love that does not judge, that allows the person to be whom they want to be, that does not criticize, nor is haughty, prideful in what we want, a love that considers the welfare of the other person, not what we want, a love that is safe and secure, that believes the best in the other person and never loses hope, a love that respects the wishes and desires of the other person, and does not force their own motives, a love that is freeing, and truly liberating, a love that is strong and bears the other person up, a love that conquers all...a love that never lets go...it does not quench the spirit of the other person, nor seeks it's own way...this is a perfect love to me and the love of God...

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Rapunzel said:
Faith without works is dead.

Yes, you have to act on what you believe, and put it into practice.
Use it or lose it definitely applies, I think.

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Very Good Post................ and can be used by all religious stand points / faith.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

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_Sky said:
Faith? Sure. But faith IS the substance.... I show God is real to me through being able to help others, to care about them and love them even though some of unlovely. Ordinary ppl can't do that without God's love and understanding, imo. It just doesn't come naturally. It's a supernatural thing.

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YES... I too believe your statement (shown above) to be true, for it is my belief in a higher spiritual power than enables me to do the same with in my life and with people of all kinds.

....... I guess it is up to each person to define what or who their "higher spiritual power" is.

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs )))

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climbingkit said:
I can share my many experiences and miracles with God, but more importantly to me is to share what I believe He is...there is always a natural explanation to a miracle...But to love someone with the love that has been shown to us..A love that passes all understanding...a love that does not judge, that allows the person to be whom they want to be, that does not criticize, nor is haughty, prideful in what we want, a love that considers the welfare of the other person, not what we want, a love that is safe and secure, that believes the best in the other person and never loses hope, a love that respects the wishes and desires of the other person, and does not force their own motives, a love that is freeing, and truly liberating, a love that is strong and bears the other person up, a love that conquers all...a love that never lets go...it does not quench the spirit of the other person, nor seeks it's own way...this is a perfect love to me and the love of God...

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I understand your POV, but what about those who have not experienced God in such a way? - what about the one that is saved by believing and yet they have never felt His presence or hope?

What do you tell them so that they too may believe in the saving grace of Christ & the ever reasuring presence and love of God? (keeping in mind that they are seeking some thing more than what is spoken, preached or talked about from the bible {a mere book to them} - they seek some thing that is real to the human eye & mind)

....... I have yet to hear any one state an explanation of Gods existence that has not been talked or preached about over the years, hence why so many people might believe it to be true... similar to brain washing in a way - wouldn't you say?
....... I state what I did above for the person I am trying to help has said the same thing concerning why many people believe in God, and I am lost to find a better explanation, for I too have ben told the same things since I was a child.

....... What real life experience does any one actually have - spiritual or physical?

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

"For the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, for they are Spiritually discerned."

You are asking someone to understand a concept they cannot! I KNOW God and yet cannot prove Him to you or anyone directly.

HE will prove Himself to a person when they "believe that He IS and HE is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him."

They must ask God to reveal Himself to them, and He will (if they ask in earnest.)

I guess to the cynic yes, anything that has been preached, regardless if it is true, is fodder for brainwashing.

I'm not going to continue to post on this thread, as I sense that it's ultimate intent is not for support for you, Rhapsody, but some other argument?

I am confused to say the least...as you came to PC very strong in faith, and yet between 2 threads you've begun... they both appear to be egging ppl on in debate. I can be wrong, and hope I am, but I can't continue in this vein for now. TC!

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_Sky said:
I'm not going to continue to post on this thread, as I sense that it's ultimate intent is not for support for you, Rhapsody, but some other argument?

I am confused to say the least...as you came to PC very strong in faith, and yet between 2 threads you've begun... they both appear to be egging ppl on in debate. I can be wrong, and hope I am, but I can't continue in this vein for now. TC!

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I am sorry that YOU feel this way, for just because someone is asking a question that needs to be answered for them and for a friend does not mean that they are trying to start a debate, but that is what does seem to come from any question being asked on here - for when the question takes place in an open forum you are sure to get opinions from both sides..... and that just might help the one asking the question to find the answer they seek.

BTW - Would a true Christian turn their back on a person asking this very same question in church? Would a believer not ever think that even a Christian might start to doubt as the years pass by, therefore, they too seek an answer while honestly trying to help a friend?

.... Why does it often seem that no one can ask a question or go against the tides of the majority with out it taking a turn back against the poster?

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

I am here to learn and to grow.... not to cause trouble or to destroy - no matter what another may interpret as my intentions. I am here to HEAL and if I doubt, then I must ask.... for me and for others.

I have written about the few things that I have personally experienced from God...for me these are real...there are no words that I can give to those who are struggling with believing in a god who is safe....honestly, this world sucks...a benevolent God has given us free will to live as we will...and what breaks my heart is that those who have been entrusted with our safety and health, have abused and or forsaken us...For me,to tell someone about my faith in an invisible God, is to share that I believe, He is love..He is everything that I never received from mortal man...He IS loving, kind, gentle, long-suffering, merciful, and full of grace...On this planet we have full reign..that is the freedom we have received from Him..which really stinks at times...because we have been abused, rejected, down trodden, and at times left alone...but that is the way of earth, not heaven..I was horribly abuse as a child, and yet I married an abusive husband who terrorized and abused me and our 5 children..I should have known better...am a horrible person, no, abolutely not...We all have a free will...for me, to share with my friends who God truly is, is to love them with all of my heart and soul, to not judge them, nor put them down, to think of their welfare before my own, to love unconditionally, to know that when they are hurting, they may probably hurt me whether with words or actions, to consider myself not above them, but with them, to never reject or condemn them, to stand with them and for them, My heart breaks for those who feel that god is quiet or absent..that he left us all alone...these are my thoughts and opinions and if you do not agree that is ok..I really do understand..

and questions are ok too..

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_Sky said:
I'm not going to continue to post on this thread, as I sense that it's ultimate intent is not for support for you, Rhapsody, but some other argument?

I am confused to say the least...as you came to PC very strong in faith, and yet between 2 threads you've begun... they both appear to be egging ppl on in debate. I can be wrong, and hope I am, but I can't continue in this vein for now. TC!

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One more Thought.......

What I can say, but.................. that with the doubt toward God of a person that I truly look up to I have lately began to wonder... as I have done before, so now I seek advice and guidance, not division with my question.

I some times wonder if this GOD we speak of or believe in is REAL or NOT.... is He merely made up from stories told over time, is He the one and only God that truly rules over us all, or is He the spiritual part within us all that we now seek to return to.... but without all the fear that many have made him out to hold...... I do believe in a higher power - I just wonder ? ? ? ? (as many others do)


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Honestly, when I saw a new forum for "A sanctuary for spiritual support" I first thought, oh no, there will be strife here...And quite frankly, seeing my words written in blue, being put up again, has caused me to leave this forum...My faith is important to me, but not to make someone else belive what I do..Support to me, is someone hearing me, and acknowledging what my heart has to say...NOT debating what I believe...I have my own personal beliefs and would never push them on someone else..I feel that this thread has not supported me nor encouraged me..RIght now I need to be able to be safe to express my own personal faith truths without having to justify them..This forum is not safe..Safety is expressing what you hold to your very heart to be true, and having someone here say, "don't understand, don't get it, but get you" I am leaving this forum tonight...and leaving this site..Due to my own weakness and insecurity I cannot see my own words put up before me as if in an attack...know that is my own business...wishing you all of the best...take gentle care you all...

Rhapsody, you putting my words up in blue has made me literally sick..leaving here, and leaving condemnation..

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JonB said:
This isn't exactly coming from a Christian perspective, but personally, I believe that God is real because God is me and you are God and so is everyone else. Perfect beings on a path of perfection, continuing to be perfect as we are stuck along the path of realizing our perfection and the perfection of others. A perfect paradox - like work without doing. It drives the mind in the most perfect way I think - for me anyway.

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Thank YOU very much for this reply (sorry that i missed it and did not respond to it sooner)..... your reply has been the closet response to how I have been feeling / thinking off and on for the last two years.
... May I ask how YOU came by this belief?

And.... that is probably why I have asked is God Real? - meaning is it God or is it just the name God that we have given to our spiritual being, that which we all are?

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

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climbingkit said:
Rhapsody, you putting my words up in blue has made me literally sick..leaving here, and leaving condemnation..

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I am SORRY - I do not know what YOU mean.... I have condemn no one.... I place the words in quote form so that who ever reads it will know what I am replying to.

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs )))