How could one's Belief be so strong

Hey ((((((((((( sept )))))))))))))

If you remember you replied a while back now to a post I wrote within this thread... it's taken me a long time to reply lol

At the time I didn't really understand what you were saying. You said you could see proof of God in the sunset and things like that. But I've been doing some reading and gone on other forums and can see far more clearly now what you mean .

One more question though (to anybody, if anybody knows/ can suggest an answer)...

I've read arguments which say that God must have made the Universe and Earth because things are so perfect here. We're just the right distance away from the Sun, the living conditions here are just right to sustain life, etc. But then what is the use of the other planets in our Solar System? None of those support life (as far as is known). If God made Earth, then why would He make more planets for which there does not appear to be any apparent use?

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why would He make more planets for which there does not appear to be any apparent use?

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They have their own use, too, Silver Queen. The moon is to give us light by night and that is also part of the stars' job. Early civilization navigated by the position of the stars and marked their calendar by them, they did their agricultural duties by them. Nowadays, when man's compasses and other gizmos fail them, the stars are still there for guidance. The stars are also there for our enjoyment at night. Have you ever been out in the middle of nowhere, without the city lights to dim the stars? It's an awsome tapestry of design and beauty!

The Bible doesn't say it, but the Rev. Billy Graham thinks that these are the mansions that God has prepared for his children. We'll be in a totally different dimension and who's to say that we won't find absolute beauty in those stars and planets?

We won't be bound by our travel limitations then and we'll be able to transport ourselves through that glorious mass of light, from one star to the other, from one planet to the other.

This is one of my most favorite passages in the Bible:

Psalm 19 (Contemporary English Version)

The Wonders of God and the Goodness of His Law

1The heavens keep telling
the wonders of God,
and the skies declare
what he has done.

2Each day informs
the following day;
each night announces
to the next.

3They don't speak a word,
and there is never
the sound of a voice.

4Yet their message reaches
all the earth,
and it travels
around the world.

In the heavens a tent
is set up for the sun.

5It rises like a bridegroom
and gets ready like a hero
eager to run a race.

6It travels all the way
across the sky.
Nothing hides from its heat.

I like that answer Septie. It also made me think about how God created the universe for His enjoyment? How it was created and then he created the perfect garden and Adam... He made all things perfect and wonderful... before mankind kinda ruined it all (and maybe a few fallen angels, but that's another issue )

OK, I have more questions. I hope you can help me.

First, don't think I'm dumb but, until yesterday I did not know the difference between the "old testiment" vs the "new testiment". I was told that the new testiment is from Jesus himself. Is that correct?

Which version are we to believe?

As long as I do the right thing in life, shouldnt GOD know that my intensions were good?Even if other people perceive my actions as the incorrect action?

I have decided to purchase some literature in regards to this subject. My curiousity grows.

I do not know what I am looking for, but eventually I will find it.

The Old Testament and the New Testament together make up the Bible. They go together, and the Old Testament has the history leading up to Jesus's time, from the creation, through various prophets (Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, to name just a few), and the nation of Israel in ancient times. The Old Testament leads up to Christ's birth and ministry. (The same writings as in the Old Testament also appear in the Torah, used in Judaism).

The New Testament is an account of the time when Jesus lived on earth, plus some of the years before his birth and after his death. The first four books of the New Testament cover the time up until Jesus's death, and that is where you will find accounts of his ministry and direct quotes of his teachings.

Jesus didn't sit down and write any of the books himself. The books of the Old and New Testaments were written by prophets, kings, scholars, etc. of those times, who were familiar with the events that they wrote about, some first-hand and others by rote learning or by revelation.

There are many versions and translations of The Bible. I prefer the King James Version, which was a translation into English from the various languages that it was in previously, made at the direction of King James of England (I can't remember which number he was - I want to say King James VI, but correct me if I am wrong). The language is antiquated, but I find that some of the newer translations lose some of the meaning. However, they may be easier to read and understand so it is a trade-off.

If you read languages besides English, you can sometimes find meaning in hearing it a different way that you might otherwise miss. Comparing the various English versions can also bring out points that you might not notice otherwise.

Rap

Jennie, almost any translation of the Bible is good. I especially like the King James Version because, to me, it's "poetic." Some people have trouble with the "thees and thous." There's a New King James Translation that is also good and a bit simpler and clearer to read. The New International Version is also good. I think this one is a study Bible and gives you annotations to reference to. The New Testament will reference you back to the Old Testament so that you can see where things were prophecied or foretold. If I'm correct in the translation, it also has questions at the bottom of each page with answers and references.

Like I suggested before, read the Gospel of John. That book brought Jesus to light for me. The Gospel of Luke has a lot more detail but is more about things that happened and how they happened rather than Jesus himself.

Something of interest is that these apostles didn't do the actual writing of that particular book. The New International Version tells you who is thought to have written that particular gospel and why it was given that name.

For historical facts, the book "Josephus" is good, although I'm told it's a heavy book to read. Josephus was a historian, not an apostle.

If I've flubbed up any of my info, I'm sure Sky will correct it. She's the one with all the "book learnin'".

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SeptemberMorn said:
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why would He make more planets for which there does not appear to be any apparent use?

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They have their own use, too, Silver Queen. The moon is to give us light by night and that is also part of the stars' job. Early civilization navigated by the position of the stars and marked their calendar by them, they did their agricultural duties by them. Nowadays, when man's compasses and other gizmos fail them, the stars are still there for guidance. The stars are also there for our enjoyment at night. Have you ever been out in the middle of nowhere, without the city lights to dim the stars? It's an awsome tapestry of design and beauty!

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I accept that the stars and the moon have their uses, certainly... but what of the other planets? What about Neptune and Jupiter and the others? Neptune is far, far colder than for any kind of life, as far as I know. If God created the Universe then why create just a few more planets? Why not several million of them? The only use for the planets seems to be Holst's beautiful music, 'The Planets', I love that ... Especially Mars... perhaps the planets were created so that our scientists could become obsessed by searching for life on Mars

PSR (metaphysics) Principle of sufficient reason... is something man requires. It appears we have no concept of having something for NO causal reason.

"The explanation of one thing is another thing," Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) It follows that the explanation or cause of the universe's existence, if there is an explanation, would have to be something beyond the universe, something beyond spacetime altogether. According to traditional theism, there is indeed something beyond, and this cause or creator is God.

If you were to ask why God exists that to me is like asking why a plenum is full: asking just shows that you don't understand the concept, either of a plenum or of God.

Theists will claim that there is a bonus in their answer to the question of why anything at all exists. It also answers the question in its other sense or senses, when it is about the meaning of life and the purpose or purposes for which we exist. The meaning and the purpose are contained in God's reasons for creating a universe and the beings in it, reasons that are the subject of divine revelation. (john f post)

I Corinthians 2:1-16 God's wisdom is not man's wisdom.

Silver, Jmo, and whoever is interested,

I'd recommend that you, look into evolutionary biology, and the other sciences if you want to find the real answers, they are so much more wonderous than the concocted fictions and guesses that have been promoted with no evidential backing.

I really don't know how any education system can call it self such without completely answering such questions, I guess the biology I took for many years just made it second nature to me that such answers were self evident all around us, if we looked close enough, that things just were, and with no purpose other than being, and if alive, eating, surviving, reproducing. Plants without uses to humans with only microscopic shadows of a doubt are eaten by something else and or parasitised by something else, while in turn finding nutrients from their environments.
~Down

The stars and planets, as they exist now and not sustaining our life, may very well not be for our use now. Our spirits won't need what our bodies need to sustain us.

Our trips into space have certainly given up an array of technology! Who knows. God works in mysterious ways.

I'm so sorry for you that you think all this happened by accident. Wonderous? Hardly!

Maybe the other planets are for purposes that we don't understand just yet. Who says they will stay where they are and the way they are forever? Maybe they will have a chance to become earths like ours someday too.

I would have to exercise a great deal more faith if I tried to believe that the odds of everything coming together as it did was by chance or accident, or if the process of evolution was true. Indeed, there are such gaps there, my faith would be challenge far beyond what I experience day to day by having faith in a Supreme Being and Purpose... creation by design is much easier to swallow

Thanks for breakin' it down for me Rap.

Downeyfresh,

I continue to keep an open mind about all aspects. In fact, I was watching CSI (Las Vegas), the least likely show to get me thinking about religon, but Jorga Fox (plays Sara Sidle on the show) is a known Athiest. She made a comment on the show...something to the effect of "She beleives that people created the idea of GOD/Jesus so that they wouldn't have to take responsibility for their sins/actions".

When I heard her say that I thought to myself, What if what she said is the truth? It makes sense, right? I think that sometimes people have that need to have everything in black and white. I am one of those people. I prefer facts, and perhaps that is why it is so very difficult for me to wrap my head around the whole GOD subject. But, at the same time, I can not say for sure that he doesn't exist, because I DONT KNOW. I think that is why I am asking and persuing this so actively because I am curious, and because I have to listen to what my body is telling me and right now, and right now, it is leading me in this direction and I owe it to myself to keep an open mind.

I understand so much what you despise, people who preach the word one minute and the very next minute are casting judgment upon everyone. Nothing burns me more then someone like that. That is exactly how my father is. It makes me physically ill to think of how he carries himself like his %#@&#! doesnt stink. That is why I am pretty upfront with people about how far I will go with this subject.

Thank you Down for continuing to share your views with me. I do value your opinion and I always have.

Huggles,

Jen

Why would there be sins if there is no Judge, no One who declared what is moral and what isn't?

There is a very old saying that is also good to ponder, imo.

If there is no God (or Judge) then when we die, we are all fine (those who also believed there was a god.)

If there IS a God, and He requires accepting this, then those who don't believe there is a God have a real problem when they die.

The good part about this, imo, is that once you do accept that there is a Supreme Being, you know (inside)that you made the right decision.

Jenny, I watched CSI last night. What Jorja said was "People invented God so they would have someone to blame their sins on." That means something a little different than how you paraphased it. If anyone is to blame for our sins other than us, it's Satan.

I knew it was something to that effect. That is what I am saying. If you don't believe in GOD, then you don't believe in the Devil. What I interpreted out of what she said was that people use GOD as an excuse for forgivness of the sins they commit. Instead of taking responsibility for their actions or trying to change their behavior.

Sky, You said

"Why would there be sins if there is no Judge, no One who declared what is moral and what isn't?"

I'm a little confused by that. Need more time to think on it.

You also said:

"If there IS a God, and He requires accepting this, then those who don't believe there is a God have a real problem when they die."

I was under the impression that believing in him is not enough, one must have faith in addition to beleif, right? What is the difference?

OK.

Semantics. Here is Merriam-Webster's offering:

Main Entry: 1faith

Etymology: Middle English feith, from Anglo-French feid, fei, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust — more at bide
Date: 13th century
1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions

2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust

Thank you.

Are you sick of the questions yet ?

Nope... when they are sincere, bring 'em on! lol

I was going under the assumption that people who invented God had gone the whole route, inventing Satan, too. Some people do blame God for everything that is wrong in their lives. It's not God who's to blame but themselves and many times Satan.

Im reading Genesis (The fall of Man) in a web site that has the New International Version.

In it it states that GOD commanded Adam not to eat from the tree in the middle of the garden. However, Eve ate from the tree and gave some to Adam. Once Adam told GOD what had happened, he cursed everything.

He did not forgive what they had done he cursed them, and everything around them.

Why did he do that? Why did he not forgive both of them for eating the fruit from the tree? Are we not supposed to forgive? Why did GOD not forgive them?

"Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin."

I'm sorry. I can't accept that right now.

Without death? There is no guilt?

Am I understanding this all wrong?