How could one's Belief be so strong

Wow. Some really good posting here.

I always been a firm beleiver in "to each his own", and I beleive the same when it comes to religion. I did ask very specific questions here and I got some great answers and I appreciate all of you for sharing very person stories here.

Rapunzel,

Your post made so much sence to me and I didnt think you were babbling at all. You made alot of interesting points that I never considered. Particularly about the reactions a child receives when they question the faith. I can remember plenty of times that the devil was used as a scare tactic. Or that GOD wouldnt like it if you did this or that. Maybe that is part of my problem.

But I also think, after reading your post, that because my young years I was raised Catholic, that perhaps I am pressuring myself to know the LORD as my family see's him.

This is a subject that I will continue to research on my own, but I really appreciate all that replied and telling us your personal thoughts and experiences. Thank you.

Huggles,

Jen

God always answers prayers- with either yes, no or not now. sometimes we have to be so far down, to realize we can't pick ourselves up, only God can do that. There have been times when i wanted God to answer my prayers NOW. but he didn't. I can't recall the times I prayed for relief and it never seemed to happen. did i stop beliving? not really. i had put me first and not God. therefor i felt nothing was being done to my satisfaction. but when i humbled myself and prayed with my heart, prayers began to be answered. not immediatly though, but i felt his presence and love when i was on my knees. so many times people say " give me proof God exist" well give me proof he does not exist. you can't. anyway i'd rather believe there is a god and die to find there isn't one than not to believe and die and find there is a God.

I'd rather LIVE knowing there is a loving God watching over me, guiding me, helping me when my burden gets too heavy or I'm tired of banging my head against a brick wall and not getting anywhere, than to live without Him. Like the song says:

I’d rather have Jesus than silver or gold;
I’d rather be His than have riches untold;
I’d rather have Jesus than houses or lands;
I’d rather be led by His nail-pierced hand

Refrain:
Than to be the king of a vast domain,
Or be held in sin’s dread sway;
I’d rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today.

I’d rather have Jesus than men’s applause;
I’d rather be faithful to His dear cause;
I’d rather have Jesus than worldwide fame;
I’d rather be true to His holy name
He’s fairer than lilies of rarest bloom;
He’s sweeter than honey from out the comb;
He’s all that my hungering spirit needs;
I’d rather have Jesus and let Him lead

My faith is strong, even though I am weak comparatively.

If I can stop for even a moment when in any situation, and remember that God is in control, then any decision or action that I make, if I make it with good intent and doing my best at the time, He will make it right for His ultimate good. This is my faith in action.

(This isn't directed at Sky, but to anyone... and all the examples are hypothetical)

People say (obviously) that God exists and that the Bible is His word.

I know people have been trying to answer this, but still, how *do* you know that God exists? A person might say, 'Well, I have faith that God is there, and I trust in Him.' But still, how do you know that trust is real? How do you know that that feeling of warmth in your soul is just not imagined because you need support? And how about answers to prayers... people have been saying that God answers their prayers. How do they know that is so? If they hear a voice in their head saying, 'It'll work out for the best' or something similar, how can they be certain that it is God saying that? Might it not be their own mind answering them and reassuring them that they can go on? Imagine that say, a person has a dying friend, and might pray to God that the friend be saved. And the friend does indeed recover. A believer might put this down to God interceding and saving the life of the friend. But perhaps the friend just recovered anyway? How could one know?

Also, people talk about there being a loving, benign God. It's said that God *wants* to love us. If there is such a Being, why should God want to love us? Why should he love everyone? Isn't it enough, if He did so, that He made the Universe? And what is the point of making the Universe anyway? People tend to think that, if God made the Universe, that they are the centre of it and they are also at the centre of God's Will, but isn't that just fulfilling their own need to feel loved and secure in a world which is totally meaningless if there is no cause for them to be there? Why should a God want devotees anyway? Why should he want to create a Universe and have people venerate Him? Isn't it a bit scary to think that a God wishes millions to worship him? The Bible claims that people have free will, but might that not be so that people don't think they are slaves and so rebel?

I know there are a lot of questions and I don't expect them all to be answered, if even they can be... but I have been thinking over them for a while, and answers would be useful, as long as it doesn't start a conflict...

Jen

I am new here so please forgive me if I don't follow the correct protocol.

My daughter had a brain tumor and during her long recovery I doubted that there could be a God. Why would He do such a terrible thing to such a great person. Then I saw my grandson be born and it was so wonderful and so unexplained. In my opinion there has to be a God.

How I keep my sanity is to believe that there is a God but He doesn't have all the power that I originally thought He did. I feel that He guides us, such as getting the best neurosurgen but didn't give my daughter her brain tumor.

Carol

How I know God is real and that He loves me and takes care of me:

Every sunrise, He gives me a fresh start to make of the day the best that I can. He paints the sky a different color ever day for me. One day, it will be bright yellow with the bluest skies and just a gentle breeze. Another day, he'll paint it grey and the clouds will let down rain to nurture plants, trees and animals that don't have someone to look after them. The rain also benefits me in many ways.

At sunset, He brings out his magnificent pallet and repaints the skies for me and if I watch closely, I can see Him constantly at work until the sun goes down beyond the horizon. Oh, yes. And He keeps this sun and this Earth and all the stars in the Heavens in just the right path so that no harm comes to His creatures, including me.

Of course, He paints the trees, the prairies, the oceans and mountains every change of the seasons. He causes the trees and plants to bring forth fruit so that his Creation may eat. Each plant and tree brings forth of it's own kind.

During the day, no matter what color that day may be, He meets my needs. When I was a young single mother trying to raise two kids by myself, I'd run out of money before I ran out of month. I would say to my God, "Lord if anyone owes me any money, it sure would be nice if I would find a check in the mail." Sure enough! The money would arrive just when I thought hope had also run out.

When my mother lay dying in the hospital after several strokes, her suffering and struggle for breath became more than I could handle. I called my minister. He came but before he prayed, he asked me a few questions. One of his questions was, "Will you accept the Lord's will in this, no matter what it is; no matter if he says, 'Wait a bit longer.' " When I responded to the minister that I had no choice, he didn't accept my answer. He said that I had to totally accept God's will with the knowledge that maybe God wasn't done dealing with my mother on a personal lever. If God didn't stop my mother's suffering right away, I had to wait without resentment or anger, but ACCEPT. After some brief thought, I could answer in the affirmative, because God knows better than I what my mother needed. We all prayed around my mother's bed and in 45 minutes, her suffering ended. My response to my mother's last shuddering breath was "How Great Thou Art!"

When my daughter was dating a dangerous man, although I had tried to talk to her and show her where the danger lay, she didn't listen to me. Soon after, I found myself visiting my mother's grave and I prayed. I also prayed for my daughter and I told God, "Father, I'm so afraid for my girl. I've tried everything I know how but she won't listen. I need your intervention in her life, Lord, in Jesus name." That week, my daughter came home to announce that she had broken up with this dangerous man and she felt good about what she had done.

About eight years ago, after having separated from my husband, I found myself almost homeless. My best friend offered me a place to stay until I found a job as well as a place to live. She made sure that I didn't get comfortable. She knows how I feel about "the dark side" as in vampire and witch shows and movies. She took to watching some shows that came on just about the time I got home from work. I couldn't stay in the house when these shows were on. One day, I was walking around outside waiting for the shows to be over and wishing desperately that I had a place of my own. I was working but didn't make enough for rent and groceries. From somewhere down deep inside me I called out "GOD!! OH, GOD!!" A couple of days later my oldest son called me and the long and short of it was that he had found a tiny little mobile home for sale and was going to buy it for me if I approved. It was what I affectionately called "my tin can." It was falling apart but it could be MINE. I approved and my son bought it for me. I had a place to live!

Not too long after, I filed for disability. I had to wait for three years because I had gone about it on my own, doing and saying things I thought were needed. I messed things up. It wasn't until my Welfare worker mentioned disability to me that the ball got rolling. I had most of what I needed as proof, but I had been downplaying my needs rather than being frank. This Welfare worker got in touch with a disability liason that put things in motion. I had an attorney that had helped mess things up. I prayed that God would lead, go before any and every meeting I had to go to. I told him "Lord, you know what I need. YOU handle this for me, put the right words in my mouth and also be with the interviewer." Two weeks before my hearing, I fired my attorney. I had six people go with me to my hearing. When I walked through the door of the office, I prayed, "Lord, you lead." When we were called into the judges chambers and the judge came in, he looked me straight in the eye and said "There will be no hearing today. I've read your records beforehand and know that you are disabled. I will write the necessary letters and you will start receiving your disability check shortly."

When my little tin can finally couldn't take anymore habitation, I found out that the city I live in has a program for disabled, low income people. When I first applied, I was told that the city was restructuring their program and I probably wouldn't qualify. I prayed "Lord, you know my needs. You provide as you see fit." A few weeks later, a man came to my house in a little red pickup with the city logo on it. He was there to inspect my "tin can." After he looked around, he told me, "I came with the intention of refurbishing this place, but now I see it's not worth it. What we can do is offer you a different mobile home." It turns out that some very pesky neighbors were moving out of state and the city was buying their mobile. It was just four doors down from me. The city refurbished that mobile and I was in it for my birthday of that year, something that I had playfully had had thoughts of. God relieved me of two bad headaches at once; the neighbors that were nickel and diming me to death and provided a wonderful new home for me.

There's a lot more stories I can tell but for the sake of shortness, I'll leave them out for now.

God IS love. He created us for His pleasure. Why wouldn't He loves us? In fact, He loves us so much that He sent his only Son to die to redeem us back from Satan and his will. God has a purpose for every single one of us, if we only listen. God only wants us to love him in return. He's our Heavenly Father and wants His childrens love in return. He created us with free will precisely because He wants us to love Him back because we WANT to, not because He makes us. He wants to know that what He's done for us is appreciated.

I know what my life was before I turned it over to God and I know what it's like since I turned it over to Him. I wouldn't go back for all the riches of Earth.

Firstly, I wish to ask all to be aware that applying anthropological terms to God might be the best we can do, but it doesn't begin to really describe God, imo. He just doesn't compare to mankind.

The Bible answers all the questions, imo. If all I had to do was to find the references and explain them more fully, I would do so. I hope that I will get a break from IRL stuff to begin to do this for us here.

Some of the questioning returns us to the fact that the sin of the father passes down to the children. After Adam and Eve went against God's wishes, there was sin in the world. True, God sent His Son to pay for those sins so we may enter heaven, but it doesn't change how the sin has changed our lives and bodies. Before the "fall" we had perfect bodies and lives... made in the image of God himself (being triune, perfect etc) But God gave Adam and Eve freewill. He could have prevented them from eating of the tree of good and evil. But what would that have given him? Only more "animals" to obey him without question, without love, merely rotely. God wanted more than that from us... and He still does. His solution to preventing Adam and Eve (and the generations to follow) from being forever/permanently stuck in that sinful state was to remove them from the tree of life. He removed them from that garden. Life is hard because of the original sin, and our subsequent sinning. No way around this.

In the scope of things, our life here, in fact all of life so far has been but a very short time in God's "mind." For a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. This is more understandable when you study quantum physics... it was not even approachable before that I think... with a few exceptions imo. (well, Einstein for sure...)

He sent His Son to cover the mistakes and sins, so we didn't have to be eternally damned. But, again, the evidence of sin - the original sin in our body- still causes the disease and problems. I am NOT saying that someone is ill because of some personal sin and if they give it up they will be healed. This is all in the general scope of things in God's plans....

We were created to Worship God. We are here to praise and adore Him. Now, I know that's a tough thing to accept when someone isn't even believing in Him, or when they find He isn't the center of their life. But the reason we ARE is for Him. He created us for Him.

...there's more... later

plain and simple, most ppl say if ya can't see God how can he be real, I have never seen you all and I know your real, faith and belief is whats needed
Angie

Yes indeed. Scripture says, Have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ ...(with respect of persons)
It isn't our faith, it's not our faith but His. We receive this when we receive Him.

Scripture also says, For the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him. Neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned.

You have to know the Son before you can understand the spirituals things.

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Firstly, I wish to ask all to be aware that applying anthropological terms to God might be the best we can do, but it doesn't begin to really describe God, imo.

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Explain, please.

Sure thing. It's taking human characteristics and applying them to God, in this case. Using terms we would normally use for humans. (We all do this for animals/pets and such )

Such as asking, Does God change His mind? Well, of course the only "mind" we have reference to is our own, human mind. But the Mind of God is much more than what we can imagine, right? But how else can we portray what we are discussing in that sense without using the word "mind?"

Ok, I gotcha! So... we can't know God's "Mind" because He is omnicient; all knowing. He knows the beginning and He knows the end... always has, always will. It's pure, all-encompassing knowledge.

I was just wondering if you had found a flaw with something I had posted.

jmo,

Another good site I just found related to the question, Dawkins' offical site.
http://richarddawkins.net/

~Down

Jen, have you ever asked "God" your questions? I think of lots of things I believe in but don't understand or have proof of. Do you know how electricity works? But it does, doesn't it :-) Think the sun is going to come up tomorrow? Why do you believe that so strongly?

I believe in God because I've asked the Universe my questions and asked to "see" and got answers I understood and could believe were true, for me. I gave up on the hodgepodge I was taught as a child, some of it was very good as "background" but I believe God is larger than our background teachings. I feel God is kind of like "death" in that what we think about Him/Her isn't going to affect the Truth of the matter so being afraid of punishment if we badmouth or don't believe (do you want to believe in that sort of god anyway?) isn't helpful.

A "personal" relationship/experience with God is all that will effect belief, I believe :-) so one has to start with trying to get that relationship if one wants one. It's a bit like starting a relationship with one's Self, you have to individually, on your own, reach inside and say, "Hey, You here inside! Hello?" :-) My relationship with God worked the same way, "Hey, Mr. Universe, you there?" Relationships start with good conversations between the two people. It can feel silly talking to the Universe but hey, They (male/female "pair" :-) can handle it and who else is gonna know?

One thing is for sure, I've had my moments of doubt about the existence of God or sometimes referred to as a higher power. And for each of those times filled with doubt, there have been many more times that have left me feeling completely and utterly certain that God does exist.

AMEN!!

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silver_queen said:
(This isn't directed at Sky, but to anyone... and all the examples are hypothetical)

People say (obviously) that God exists and that the Bible is His word.

I know people have been trying to answer this, but still, how *do* you know that God exists? A person might say, 'Well, I have faith that God is there, and I trust in Him.' But still, how do you know that trust is real? How do you know that that feeling of warmth in your soul is just not imagined because you need support? And how about answers to prayers... people have been saying that God answers their prayers. How do they know that is so? If they hear a voice in their head saying, 'It'll work out for the best' or something similar, how can they be certain that it is God saying that? Might it not be their own mind answering them and reassuring them that they can go on? Imagine that say, a person has a dying friend, and might pray to God that the friend be saved. And the friend does indeed recover. A believer might put this down to God interceding and saving the life of the friend. But perhaps the friend just recovered anyway? How could one know?

Also, people talk about there being a loving, benign God. It's said that God *wants* to love us. If there is such a Being, why should God want to love us? Why should he love everyone? Isn't it enough, if He did so, that He made the Universe? And what is the point of making the Universe anyway? People tend to think that, if God made the Universe, that they are the centre of it and they are also at the centre of God's Will, but isn't that just fulfilling their own need to feel loved and secure in a world which is totally meaningless if there is no cause for them to be there? Why should a God want devotees anyway? Why should he want to create a Universe and have people venerate Him? Isn't it a bit scary to think that a God wishes millions to worship him? The Bible claims that people have free will, but might that not be so that people don't think they are slaves and so rebel?

I know there are a lot of questions and I don't expect them all to be answered, if even they can be... but I have been thinking over them for a while, and answers would be useful, as long as it doesn't start a conflict...

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This is why I love this place so much. This is exactly what I am trying to say. Thank you Silver.

Thank you Carol for sharing your story with us and with me.

I suppose this discussion can go on and on. I will continue to search for myself. I am so tired of beleiving what everone else beleives with out actually knowing it for myself. I spent most of my life doing that, I wont continue to do that in my adulthood.

Thank you all for continuing to share because I do beleive this is a very important topic that deserves exploring.

For me God wants to love us...He doesn't need our love, He is love...for me he is safety, a high tower in the time of trouble..to some I may be foolish, trusting by faith in the unseen...but my faith gives me hope, gives me peace, joy, and a trust that all things will work out ok...I have decided to believe in, rely on those things of my faith...I would rather believe, than live my life not having hope nor trusting in a higher belief...before, I was alone in my own understanding...I had noone to whom I could give everything that hurts...some may say that I am delusional or trusting in myths, in something that is not real, but my belief gives me hope...when my life is said and done, I will be glad that I believed in what I have...it has been a good thing for me, not bad, no confusion nor dependence upon my very own knowledge...Do I foolishly trust in something other than myself, yes, I do...It gives me a safety net, and I need that...just my humble opinion...

There is evidence of a universe by "Design" rather than from chaos on it's own. Do you wish information from this aspect, or...

How about the empty tomb? Christ, the Son, is the only "great prophet" that claimed to have risen from the dead. Would that be enough to convince you of a higher power, whom I call God?

The Roman practice was to leave the victim of crucifixion hanging on the cross to become the prey of birds and beasts. The Jewish practice was the burial of the condemned. (Jewish Law.)

There are post-resurrection appearances which assured His followers that He had actually risen form the dead. The empty tomb stood as a historical fact. The guard's narrative attempted to account for the fact as a fraudulent transaction, but this Jewish accusation against the Apostles takes for GRANTED that the grave was empty. The other anti Christian propaganda all begin with the tomb as being empty, with suggestions as to why it was so. No one denies that he was crucified and buried to begin with, and that the tomb is empty.

Are you familiar with the whole situation? From the grave clothes, to the stone and seal, to the Roman guard and all the consequences thereby?

It was written that over 500 people saw Christ alive after the burial. It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus. Think about the factions then, Jewish all... some followed Christ and some not.

The Roman guard would not have let anyone take his body... they were under the order of death should such a thing happen. And there were too many guards for all of them to have simply gone along with any such a thing, also. Don't you think they searched everywhere for His body? And how would anyone have rolled such a massive stone away while the soldiers watched? For it was also penalty of death to sleep on your watch. These were Romans, not Jews, remember.

there's more...if you want it

_Sky,

I am always interested in hearing more. As I said before, I appreciate those who share their experiences and knowledge with me. I suppose that is how we all broaden our minds, whatever the subject may be.

Thank You.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jen}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

poopiedust as long as God believes in us , thats what really counts
Wise-in-himer

(((((((((((((((Mama)))))))))))))))))

(((((((((((Wise-n-himer)))))))))))