Non-Religious Spirituality and Mental Health

You will all find out when it is time.
I hope you find out today

Here's a clue:
Love is greater than me and you.

(As "they" say, "Love will find a way")

To Love yourself, you must love others first.

You may have heard it said, "Love others as yourself."

This means that you must understand that we all are one.
Everything we think and do affects all of us.

When we love others, we give without wanting anything for ourselves.
THE AMAZING THING IS THAT: WHEN WE LOVE OTHERS WE ARE LOVING OURSELVES.

Why is that?
Because others are ourselves!

We All are One



(p.s. Whoever said and believes that you must love yourself before you can love others is wrong)

Pardon me y'all for complicating something simple.
Really all we have to do is value ourselves (ourselves meaning: all of us collectively) and take care of ourselves as best as we can. If we fall short, we figure out what we could have done better, then do better.

We need to value and take care of our environment and all the critters too.
That's all I will say.
Y'all have a nice day

I wouldn't say you've complicated anything Indie, but, attempting to unravel the answers to the question you've brought out, and it's fine that you did, even a very good thing, is both simple, and complicated.

Yes, you are right, that love is the answer. You are right to go on to attempt to define what love is. It seems rational that would be the very next step. Love is very simple, you're right about that too. What isn't always so simple for everyone, I think, is putting love into action.

I think part of the reason people haven't unified in love globally is because there isn't a complete sense of urgency about it in the present. We could have a little fun with this if you wanted.

Imagine if suddenly a large space fleet of extra-terrestrial beings appeared above Earth and they commanded to us that we had 10 years to become a peaceful, loving planet, or, due to our violent and careless ways, they'd see no option but to destroy us and everything on the planet. 10 years? We've got plenty of time, right? What if it was five years? One year? One month? One day? Or even, think about this, one hour? Changes the urgency, doesn't it?

I think one of the first steps, after we've decided we can't blow them out of the sky, would be for all of us, each of us, countries, armies, and people, would be to lay down our arms. How simple would that be? But, you know something? I bet there'd be people who resisted.

I am not concerned about what others do or don't do.
I'm not saying that I don't care. I care very much.

I just realize that I have no control over what others think or do.
I am very aware what is going on with others. I understand why they think what they think and do what they do.
I just do what I do and I realize that all things and events are orchestrated by a higher omnipotent loving power for our good. I do not believe this. I know this.
I have no worries. I am safe. I know that everybody is safe.
I just say, "Carry on, there will be peace when you are done"

<3

Relevant to a non-religious spirituality -

"Q: Maybe I'm the suggestible type but I easily fall under the
influence of people who urge me to adopt their religious beliefs
or their social practices. I find it hard to say no.

A: Remember what I am about to tell you and it will be easy to
say no. When people urge you to live as they do they are really
inviting you to be as miserable as they are. "

Vernon Howard - Treasury of Positive Answers, # 143

That is actually a false statement. I know many people who share their lifestyles and/or religion who are quite happy.
To be honest, I question the intelligence of people who quote others to make a point.

If V. Howard had wisdom instead of an agenda, he would have told that poor suggestible soul that they needed to think for themselves and test all things. The placement of the quote in question in this thread was nothing more than a passive aggressive attempt at religion bashing. (It was also an attempt at bashing a person or persons as well)
As more than one person stated with wisdom earlier in this forum: We are all right according to our own understanding and everyone and their beliefs deserve respect.
Quotes like the above by V. Howard serve to only alienate people.

imo Vernon Howard was one of the last great spiritual teachers America had.

An Appeal to Authority is a FALLACY with the following form: Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. Person A makes claim C about subject S. Therefore, C is true.

Basically people who appeal to authority are not capable of forming intelligent opinions for themselves.
They are more concerned with following personalities who can articulate whatever emotionally based opinion they happen to subscribe to, than actually researching facts and evidence for themselves.
They are of the "sheep" mentality and will typically bash other sheep who hold opposing opinions.

They can read many books and accumulate much information, but they cannot intelligently interpret real meaning.

My POV about the quote is that, it probably isn't the most positive thing a person could say about another person or group, HOWEVER, it is worth considering what motivates those who are attempting to gather recruits to their way of thinking.

As for using, or reading quotes, there was a period in my life that I really could not think. I didn't understand what had happened to my thinking ability, it was there one day, and then gone. These were days, and this was a place, where we didn't have an internet and psychiatrists were privately paid for, so, being a teen, and trying to hide what was going on with me, I had no access to any real help aside from the local library, or, any books I could afford. I kept hoping my thinking ability would just return by itself someday, but, it didn't happen that way. One of the things I did was buy a book of quotes. There seemed to be so many wise sayings inside it and they were these little nuggets of what seemed like pure wisdom to me and after reading one, I could think about what it meant, and how it applied in life. It was one of my favorite things to do. It got me thinking again.

I won't say this was one of V. Howards' most optimistic quotes, but, I won't say it doesn't give us something to think about, because, obviously, it did.

Here is another:

You need only choose... then keep choosing as many times as necessary. That is all you need do. And it is certainly something you can do. Then as you continue to choose, everything is yours.

Vernon Howard

I'm glad this came up. There have been a few quotes that I believed completely when I was younger, that I've since decided weren't entirely true. I can't think of a good example right now, but, it makes me think of some of the bumper sticker slogans I've read on the back of peoples cars. One that comes to mind is:

Why take life so seriously? No one gets out alive anyway.

I appreciate peace making attempts.
The problem is that intolerance and bashing is not worthy of consideration. My point to all is that there is no difference between those who believe things because the Bible tells them so; the Koran tells them so; the Buddha tells them so, Lao-Tzu tells them so; Zoroaster tells them so; Fox News tells them so; Thomas Jefferson tells them so or Vernon Howard tells them so etc...
There comes a point that in order to co-exist we need to agree to disagree and attempt to come together on some common ground.

It was just a random quote in my in-box - Interesting reaction to it.

i don't incidentally follow any specific path/religion/person/practise & have no intention of doing so.

What was said the other day? Only fools argue with fools?

Who has genuine love in their heart? It's Not many, although many profess to it.

I am still grateful this issue rose. It is very relevant to mental health. I respect the sharpness of your perception Indie. You make a very valid point about 'bashing'. I have a very hard time tolerating it myself. I think we need to really think about what's being said here.

First, I don't believe it was Apotheoisis intent, or, even V. Howards' intent, and, its' not my intent, to bash. But, I think it should never be forgotten the way that some people have used the concept of love to draw people into very unhealthy situations. For all we know, V. Howard had in mind the social atmosphere of pre Nazi Germany when he replied to the person in the quote Apotheosis made. When I said 'recruit', you can't know for sure if I meant North Korean, South Korean, Russian, Chinese, American, or Vietnamese military recruits. I specifically left out any reference to religion and said 'their way of thinking', and, I said it was' worth considering what motivates'. I think it is important to question others motivations so we can learn from the mistakes of the past.

Thank you for helping to keep the thread clear of any potential anti-religious vibe. I know I would appreciate someone doing that in a reversed situation.

Finally, I think what you oppose, is not Apotheosis or myself, but you oppose the idea of what you think we have presented. Fair enough. I respect that. I oppose the idea of bashing and intolerance as well, I'm certain Apotheosis does too.

It's all me. I just realized I am manic. I am sorry Apotheosis.

I am going away to get better. Take care everybody and thank you.

Feel no shame for having emotion. Emotion is our Spirit.

Today's quote from Vernon seems apt as well -

"Make this your battle cry of internal independence as follows,
'I am tired of apologizing my way through life and I am not going
to do it anymore. My life has been one weak apology and explanation
to everyone and everything that comes along and I now have a very
faint but very clear understanding that it was always wrong for me
to be in that condition.'

And remember now, you hearing this talk have joined this declaration
of independence. Let the liberty bell ring long and hard: 'I have
sensed how unnatural it is for me to always be on the defensive and
I'm not going to be on the defensive anymore, Which does not mean
that I'm going to be on the offensive either because I understand
that the two go together.'"

from a talk given 1/6/1989
Vernon Howard's Higher World - MP3 CD Volume 25, talk 614, track 10

I 'm back and I'm better. You guys helped me realize that I am manic and I am grateful.
Just realizing it makes me better. I should have known it was coming. I got about 9 hours sleep in the last 5 days. I have been awake with but a short catnap for 2 days.
I sincerely apologize for attacking you, Apotheosis. I hope you know not to take what others say and do personally. As the saying goes, "It's none of my business what you think of me"

Anyways I learned some valuable lessons and I am sorry to all for being irritable and offensive.
I will be away for a while, Carry on

Get some rest. Hope you feel better soon.

Glad you had a bit of rest & hope you feel better.

i'm very used to being attacked for my views. Don't worry about it. i do find a lot of the personal attack difficult to deal with at times, on-line, & in my life - But that's how it is, & the way of this World.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have much difficulty thinking and expressing myself and was beginning to feel like I should never try to share anything in this group for fear of being judged for my inability to say what I mean without being thought of as ignorant.

You're fine Indie. I know I've lost sleep in thinking about some of these thngs and I don't consider that an illness, but, it's an indication of how much we care.

Today's quote from Vernon seems apt as well -

"Make this your battle cry of internal independence as follows,
'I am tired of apologizing my way through life and I am not going
to do it anymore. My life has been one weak apology and explanation
to everyone and everything that comes along and I now have a very
faint but very clear understanding that it was always wrong for me
to be in that condition.'

And remember now, you hearing this talk have joined this declaration
of independence. Let the liberty bell ring long and hard: 'I have
sensed how unnatural it is for me to always be on the defensive and
I'm not going to be on the defensive anymore, Which does not mean
that I'm going to be on the offensive either because I understand
that the two go together.'"

from a talk given 1/6/1989
Vernon Howard's Higher World - MP3 CD Volume 25, talk 614, track 10

Thats positively beautiful.

i'm very used to being attacked for my views. Don't worry about it. i do find a lot of the personal attack difficult to deal with at times, on-line, & in my life - But that's how it is, & the way of this World.

We expose ourselves by daring to be different. It threatens people. That always amazes me because peace is what I desire most. What a world we live in when the idea of peace is perceived as a threat.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have much difficulty thinking and expressing myself and was beginning to feel like I should never try to share anything in this group for fear of being judged for my inability to say what I mean without being thought of as ignorant.

Thank you for this. I can remember now, when my thoughts were frozen, It was fear that shut me down. Fear of not being understood. I assumed my thoughts would be attacked and there never seemed to be anything safe to say. I hope you feel safe with us.

Religion is the Means; Spirituality is the End

Religion is simply the way a person pursues and practices their spirituality.
The theory methods and practices that each of us use as we seek spirituality is our religion.

People tend to confuse religion with whatever organized religions they are familiar with.
Some organized religions (or people) defeat the purpose of spirituality by creating an environment of fear, condemnation, closed mindedness and intolerance.

Spirituality is the state of individual and collective wholeness.
It is an environment where we love and are loved.
Spirituality is Unity.
Spirituality is Love.

Love is the general and all encompassing law of everything.
Love is the essence of reality.

When we conform to the laws of Reality/Love we are whole and well.
When we do not understand and fail to follow the laws we suffer.


Love is the state of wholeness, harmony, unity and perfection.

Love is spirituality.
Spirituality is love.

Love is what we seek