[Greenleaves]

I must admit that sometimes I feel uncomfortable around religious people. I feel like I have to sort of fake believing so my friends will think I might not go to hell after all.

I also get uncomfortable talking about religious stuff because I know my views aren't held by many others. Should I just keep my mouth shut when people talk about believing in stuff? Should I just pretend that I also believe so people will like me?

[Perna]

I don't think it ever helps things to pretend to be what you aren't or pretend to believe something you don't.

You can't do a whole lot about what your friends believe (that you'll go to Hell) and though it's nice that you care about them, I would just tell them, if they are pressing on you (a boundary violation) that you are not interested in discussing your beliefs at that time and tell them that they're your beliefs and just as valid as their own and you don't believe "arguing" is going to change anyone's mind.

It's generally not real polite to bring up and talk about religion, money or sex :-) with people you don't know very well as a lot of people do get upset or do not wish to talk about their personal feelings or beliefs so, if they're mentioned I just don't enter the conversation and if it gets too uncomfortable, strident or something, I would just leave.

i'm an athiest and i'm very upfront about this.
though...
depending on the audience i'll sometimes back down to agnosticism as the most rational position...
but then it all depends on what you mean by 'god' and i'm most certainly an athiest on 'omnigod' so unless i'm discussing the issue with a sophisticated philosopher / theologian (which i find does indeed inspire a sense of the mystical in me) for all intents and purposes i'm an athiest.

now...
i won't claim that this wins me any friends...
but i am very upfront about my beliefs.
if other people are talking about their religious beliefs i might keep my trap shut... but i won't pretend like i'm agreeing even though i am in fact listening politely.
if they ask me what i think then i'll tell them.

the same issue (for me) comes up when people talk about astrology. horoscopes and belief in ghosts and esp and the like. if people are enthusiastically agreeing with each other then i'll keep my trap shut (mostly!). but if people ask me what i think then i'll tell 'em.

[(JD)]

We were all unbelievers prior to becoming believers. If no one had cared about me enough to share, I wouldn't be a believer. If I had gone about pretending to believe, rather than questioning, no one would have known that I was insecure in my beliefs.

I'm not saying be honest so they can pray for you (though they probably do already) but be honest so that YOU can get all the information you need to make a sure decision about how and what you wish to believe.

As for the "how do I feel about atheists?" aspect... I still care about the person, no matter what they believe or what they do...

[PetulantWolf]

Hey Green. If someone doesnt like you becasue you are an atheist than most likely THEY arent really very religeous, are they?

I mean if they were "Christians" they are not supposed to be judgemental. So that would make them hypocrites, I think.

Maybe if they really think you are going to burn they worry about you. Thats different than not likeing you.

If you just want to keep the peace then maybe you can say nothing. Or change the subject. Politics and religeon are difficult things to talk about, but my true friends and I have agreed to disagree. I dont know if someone didnt accept me because of something like that if I could really consider them my friend.

One of my favorate peole in the world does not believe in Gd and I cant imagine their not being a good place for him in the afterlife, whatever that may be.

So answer to question: I generally dont judge a person on their religeous beliefs. And you in particular, I like

[Rhapsody]

I would not fake being any body or any thing you are NOT just to please another..... I would recommended that you be your self and only state that which you feel - I personal only want people to like me or to be my friend based on the real me and not the me that must be or do what I think another expects from me in order to be their friend.

I NEVER judge a possible new friends based on their religious belief - for or against Christ..... I leave that up to God, and if he chooses to use to me to help lead a non-believer to Him then I am always willing and ready for the task at a hand.

.... I know a few Atheist - some are very nice and decent people.

[jefftele]

no, be yourself , views ,beliefs can change ,but be true to yourself today ,otherwise how can you like yourself!

[Greenleaves]

Thanks Perna,

Thanks alexandra k

Thanks Sky

Thanks justsignmeupalready

Thanks Rhapsody

Thanks jefftele

I think I will just stay out of religious conversation and not try to make others think I believe. I just won't say anything. I gotta go to sleep now, but I might reply to you individually tomorrow.

thanks for the replies

[bebop]

I feel pity for them. I feel pity because they don't know the love of being a child of God. don't know the peace.

[nothemama8]

we are all human, as long as they treat us with respect, they get my respect back, besides who are we to judge

[Juliana]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Greenleaves said:
I must admit that sometimes I feel uncomfortable around religious people. I feel like I have to sort of fake believing so my friends will think I might not go to hell after all.

I also get uncomfortable talking about religious stuff because I know my views aren't held by many others. Should I just keep my mouth shut when people talk about believing in stuff? Should I just pretend that I also believe so people will like me?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't believe in pretending to be anything you're not. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm an atheist, but I'm far from religious. My belief (or lack of belief) doesn't jibe with some people (including my mother), but I'm open to other people's opinions... and my friends and family love me for who I am.

My mother is very religious (she's a Mormon). Her faith is very important to her and I fully respect that and it's not something I would ever want her to lose. So, I don't push my views on her or criticize what she believes because I love and respect her... and she does the same for me.

I just get irritated when people try to shove their beliefs on me. As long as someone respects me and my right to my own beliefs, I show them the same respect. There's room in this world for a variety of beliefs. I'm all for acceptance, peace, love and understanding of one another's differences.

[Greenleaves]

Just wondering, would you guys be friends with an atheist?

I would be friends with anyone, even people who used to bully me in high school.

I have compassion for all people, even hackers and criminals.

[Juliana]

Lots of my friends are atheists. I also have Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and Christian friends.

[PetulantWolf]

Someone being an atheist would have absolutely no impact on whether I wanted to be their friend...

Im not comfortable around some so called religeous people as well either...there are some that get all judgemental and superior. Drives me nuts..

[Greenleaves]

Oopsie, I didn't mean for my post to compare religious ppl with criminals LOL. I just mean I could love anyone.

Love you all.

[(JD)]

I don't see any problem with your posting greenleaves. You are obviously unsure of what you believe in some areas, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Why not feel welcomed into the discussions of beliefs? You can easily tell your friends you haven't decided yet, and are interested in what they believe and why? They have those beliefs for a reason (or maybe not.)

For me, being friends and having compassion are not the same thing. I can have compassion on most anyone, and even for those I can't tolerate (such as child abusers) I can understand the why they might have done such.

From my studies as a Christian, God tells us not to judge those who are not professing to be Christians, that HE will do that. (We are to judge others who profess to be Christian but don't act like it, helping to bring them back in line with the teachings of Christ.)

I can be friendly with most anyone. Civility helps community.

[seeker1950]

Greenleaves, my daughter and her husband are atheists.
I don't even attempt to talk to her about spiritual matters, as I understand and respect her stance. I also waffle in my own beliefs, though I would never say I'm an atheist, since I do believe in a higher power.
I am friends with people who are atheists. I have more trouble being friends with people who are strict in their belief system, ruling out other philosophies.
Patty

[(JD)]

I'm curious as to why and how you (some of you shared) have trouble being friends with those who are strong in their beliefs.

I, for one, am strong in what I believe, but I don't push it onto others. I can offer it, and it is the basis by which I offer support, even here at PC, but I don't think it clouds any issues for others.

How does another person's belief injure your own, or what about this that inflects negative feelings for yourself or the situation?

A belief system can be used to guide one in their behavior. Is it that perhaps you mean you can't be friends because you find fun in different areas? Is that what you mean, that their belief system restricts them from things you find ok to do?

[seeker1950]

Sky,
I think, for me, it is because of the many experiences I've had with people who are rigid in their beliefs. I am employed with several people with whom there is no basis for any kind of interaction based upon their belief system, which is a fundamentalist Christianity in which they rule me out in even casual conversation. I have learned not to try to relate to them after years of interaction and trying to converse. I'm just flawed to them.
Also, in my long, unhappy marriage, my inlaws were the same. I spent much of that time trying to fit in with them, but they were so judgmental, I finally quit trying!
I am speaking the truth here about people with whom I have and am interacting daily.
I grew up totally immersed in the Protestant religion, and I still retain much of it in my unique belief system, but I would never reject people who have found a different way.
Patty

i would never judge a person by their faith. that isn't very loving and supportive, in my book. be yourself, greenleaves........xoxoxo pat

[bebop]

we are not suppose to judge anyone. judge not lest you be judged.

I can be friends with most people. my son is a non believer as well. I hate it for him. it breaks my heart in fact.

i think that different people have their different beliefs. some people who believe in god (or who consider themselves to be a member of / believer of a particular religion) think that all the good people (whether they are believers or not, whether they are believers of their particular religion or not) will be treated kindly in the afterlife. others don't think this, however. i think it has to do with how much of a literalist the person is about their religion.

if someone believes that i'm going to hell then i suppose that is their belief and they are entitled to it.

if that belief manifests in their feeling a great concern to convert me to save my soul or if it manifests in feelings like pity for me or condemnation of me then i find that i'm unable to be very good friends with such a person. i mean, forget about religion for a while, it simply is hard to be close friends with someone who insists on periodically expressing that they think you are seriously misguided or doing the wrong thing. if they didn't express any of it i suppose things could tick along okay, but if they express it it makes things considerably harder.

it IS hard though. lets say that i marry some guy and he beats me up a lot. i want to stay with him because i love him. you tell me that you really think that i'm making the wrong life choice and you really wish i would leave him. but lets say that i simply won't do that. the friendship could be in danger if you tried to convert me. you would have to be pretty strong in yourself, however, for me to be able to come talk to you weekly about how upset i was about being beaten up while not expressing any condemnation of my choice and the like. it is possible to support someone while disagreeing with what they are doing, but it makes it jolly hard. typically friendships tend to suffer as a result.

the way around this in the above case is for me to realise that you are not a person who i should come to when i'm feeling upset about being beaten UNLESS i'm wanting help with actually leaving. if i appreciated this and acted in accordance and you simply refrained from trying to persuade me to leave him then we could still enjoy a great friendship of going out together and talking about all kinds of other stuff but the relationship preserving / maintianing thing to do would be to mutually respect differences by not talking about that. it wouldn't be lying because you would both know where the other person stood. but it would be a way of maintaining the relationship.

same with respect to god, i reckon. if my friends think that for all the problems i'm having the simple answer is to repent then it might well be the case that i can't talk to them about stuff that is going on in my life without them feeling upset with me for not repenting. friendships can indeed be strained in such circumstances (which is of course why we tend to get on better with people who share similar beliefs about such things).

just how religious are your friends, deneb? did it come up in the context of 'anyone who isn't a member of my church / anyone who doesn't share my beliefs is going to hell' (which is hard to take)... or did it come up in the context of 'does anyone think that there is a god?' the latter kind of reflections aren't so likely to lead to their condemning your beliefs (should you choose to express them).

[Greenleaves]

I don't think my friends are very religious, most of them anyways. I have one friend who is very religious, but most aren't.

They don't have to be very religious for me to feel uneasy.

For example, saying that evolution is guided by some "force" in any way makes me uncomfortable. It's entirely my problem though.

On the other hand, I do feel curious about religion and want to learn more, but I also want people to know that no matter what they tell me I won't believe. I can learn everything I can, but I will never believe. I feel uneasy when people who know I don't believe believe that some day I will believe. It's like they don't accept me the way I am or something.

I've read that beliefs in a higher power/spiritually can be inherited to some extent and that there may be some advantages to believing. Interesting.

[Rapunzel]

Faith starts from a desire to believe, so if you don't want to believe then unless that changes nobody will ever be able to change that you don't believe. It is not something that can be changed by anyone on the outside - it is a choice.

To be perfectly honest, it saddens me when someone tells me that they don't want to believe in God. I wonder why they don't want something that has been so important to me. I wonder if there is some experience that has influenced that choice. But it is not my job to force belief on anyone, or even to try to motivate them to see things my way. I will respect your choice, as I expect you to respect mine. Still, if I am really honest, I think that there is in me a bit of smugness that 'I know something that you don't know (yet?) and maybe some day (in this life or after) you will know (or remember). There is a desire to share what I know because it is so important to me and I can't imagine not having that or wanting to have that. But gifts of that nature are best given to those who are open to them. True gifts are never forced on anyone. What would that be if they were? Whatever the correct term, it would be intrusive, and I don't want to intrude where I am not invited or welcomed.

Apart from those feelings, atheists and others whose beliefs differ from my own are all people first, as I am, and what we have in common is so much more than any of our differences. There is a lot that I can learn from you, and probably a lot that you can learn from me, whether it even has anything to do with belief or nonbelief. There is plenty of room for friendship.

[(JD)]

For me, I rely upon the Bible, it says, "Faith comes by hearing the Word of God." Maybe it isn't something you do.. it's something you allow God to do in you?

I heartedly believe that if you are seeking truth, greenleaves, and ask, with all sincerity, the higher power or force in the world that you can imagine, for understanding, that you will receive it.



I am most troubled by the fact that you are not comfortable with what you believe. I think it is important for you to find a place of beliefs that you can live with.