How do you feel about atheists?

Hmmm...interesting that you say that Sky. I wonder if sometimes I am confused because sometimes I watch shows like Touched by an Angel and it makes me cry and stuff.

Maybe I do have this thing against believing. I dunno. Maybe I sometimes believe, but I'm not comfortable believing.

I think maybe I like to not believe. Does that make sense?

Before I wrote that I'm an atheist, I considered whether I should write instead that I'm agnostic, but that didn't seem as strong a stance. I wanted to be sure I didn't believe in anything supernatural.

Maybe I'm weird, but it comforts me to know there is nothing after death sometimes.

Ok. Maybe by investigating why you feel more comfortable at those times, to think there is nothing after this life, this would help you formulate your beliefs.

Agnosticism allows for the existence of something, but doesn't clarify what it is, if it's there

Atheism states quite finally, there is no god. You don't sound quite so sure, as evidence by the spiritual moving you had even watching Touched by an Angel?

People can be moved by many things, beautiful sunsets and the like... what you root those feelings into is the core of your beliefs I think.

I'm moved by stuff. Like the night sky. Hey, it's your name! LOL

I went stargazing and I was in awe of our universe. It made me cry.

I like feeling small and insignificant. It comforts me to know that we are but a speck of dust and even if the whole world blows up, it probably won't make a difference. LOL I'm strange.

> I don't think my friends are very religious, most of them anyways. I have one friend who is very religious, but most aren't.

Ok. So they probably appreciate that their thoughts are their thoughts and they are probably be more likely to be accepting of other people thinking differently.

> For example, saying that evolution is guided by some "force" in any way makes me uncomfortable.

Well... Think 'causation' or 'laws of physics'. I mean... there are SOME physical constraints (guides) on evolutionary processes, surely ;-)

> I've read that beliefs in a higher power/spiritually can be inherited to some extent and that there may be some advantages to believing. Interesting.

I think religiousity is a (partly) heritable trait (it is kinda linked to temporal lobe epilepsy / religious experiences). Aside from that... You see a significant 'nurture' component where religions tend to be found in clusters around the globe rather than being fairly randomly distributed (if individuals were making up their own mind instead of going with what was taught, for example). Of course there are exceptions... But for the most part there are clusters, yeah.

With respect to advantages to believing... Very controversial, I would say. I think someone posted something about a link between religion and self reported happiness but then I'm fairly sure there are other links (e.g., epilepsy) so hard to weigh... Hard to weigh...

If you are interested in learning about religions there are books and stuff that you can get. I've taken a course or two in religious studies at university. You learn about religions / faiths through a sociological lens, for the most part. You aren't expected to believe in what they say but you are expected to learn what they say they believe and a little about their religious practices and stuff. Pretty darned interesting...

I developed a lot of sympathy for some elements of Bhuddism, actually.

P.S. even if we grant that God doesn't exist (for the sake of argument) it doesn't follow that there isn't life / survival after death.

For example... Lets say science advances to the point where they can make cells (incl neurones) out of silicon. Your brain is progressively replaced (and every cell in your body, I guess).

Functionalists say that what is crucial about mind is that mental states are states that play a certain functional role. The silicon allows your brain to continue playing that functional role. Hence you get immortality without God...

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Re: How do you feel about atheists?

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... like they're a breath of fresh air...

HUMPH!

((( tomi ))) Fresh air comes in many forms -- friendship, kindness, and caring are also breaths of fresh air

I know, Sweetie. Just had to yank yer chain a bit! LOL

> I'm moved by stuff. Like the night sky... I went stargazing and I was in awe of our universe. It made me cry.

That sounds beautiful. Wittgenstein wrote a little about the mystical experience. For him, he found it in the contemplation of the universe. The question: 'why is there something rather than nothing?' Why does any of it exist.

'The answer to the problem of space and time lies outside space and time'

'The appreciation of the world as a limited whole, that is the feeling of the mystical'.

> I like feeling small and insignificant. It comforts me to know that we are but a speck of dust and even if the whole world blows up, it probably won't make a difference. LOL I'm strange.

That reminded me a lot of the last quote. I think his notion was that appreciating that there are limits on the world (a beginning and an end)... To see that it is limited... But that it is 'whole' too (in the sense that all our experiences occur within its limits seeing as they are experienced within space and time)... Is the mystical experience.

So...

I don't think you sound strange at all ;-)

(Though there are of course issues to do with whether it is limited or not... Though the notion of the big bang would seem to qualify as the 'first event in the natural world' it is of course possible that there is a natural cause and effect chain extending back infinitely... Though this is really controversial... I actually think that it seems boggling either way... Just comtemplating infinite causes and effects or the cause of the first event in the natural world - which must by definition be supernatural - brings on the mystical experience for me).

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[b]alexandra_k said:[/b
if someone believes that i'm going to hell then i suppose that is their belief and they are entitled to it.

if that belief manifests in their feeling a great concern to convert me to save my soul or if it manifests in feelings like pity for me or condemnation of me then i find that i'm unable to be very good friends with such a person. i mean, forget about religion for a while, it simply is hard to be close friends with someone who insists on periodically expressing that they think you are seriously misguided or doing the wrong thing. if they didn't express any of it i suppose things could tick along okay, but if they express it it makes things considerably harder.

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That's exactly how I feel about it.

Read "The Apology of Socrates," wherein he talks about the existence of an afterlife, vs. nothingness. It is so balanced, and gives peace of mind that either is good.
I refrain from participating in church attendance at this time, though it makes me feel safe and good! Not sure why I feel this way, but it seems that I must find my own way, rather than succumbing to a prescribed religion.
It seems like an artificial shortcut to me, one from which I should abstain, having been immersed in it in my youth.
Patty

I have held back really on this thread. personally I can't imagine my life without God in it anymore. I have never doubted that there is a God at all. Although I didn't live like I did for a very long time. But I do have to say if I was in question about it at this time in my life and I came into this forum seeking answers I am afraid I might be scared off. Christianity is not suppose to be so judgemental and hostile. God is all about love and understanding and when we are trying to reach lost souls it is suppose to be more gentle. We should simply state the facts as we know them. We should never "push" our beliefs on anyone. If we don't agree then let it go. God will work on the ones that He wants to come into His fold. I might lose friends over this but I certainly hope not. Let's show the non believers what true christianity is about. much love and peace to everyone.