[alchemy63]

Not intending to argue or cause disagreement but Ive wondered, do any of the females here feel oppressed when God is referred to as a male, especially since so many have had experiences of abuse by men? Does it seem submissive and dis-empowering when all control of the universe and everything that happens in it is given to the male gender?

[Thunder Bow]

A Male God is a product of a male dominated culture. When it come to the universe, there is no gender.

[(JD)]

Actually, not to take your idea off topic but... the most ancient of Hebrew words for God is gender specific, being the plural for male gender.

As for your thoughts... and I'm unsure about it being in spirituality forum but I'll see what I can do.... one of the ways to heal is to realize (through process, sometimes called therapy..) that "just" because one male or even several males may have abused does not cause all males to have abused. It's a giant learning that some never make (as we see in many female men-haters in Celebrity Hollywood.) There are countless men who would beat the guy who abused (you) to a pulp, if given the opportunity. Or make sure they were otherwise justifiably punished.

I don't, but I don't have any serious abuse in my history, plus I grew up hearing God referred to as "Him".

I do like it, though, when I hear a sermon that discusses the fact that God has both "male" and "female" attributes and I prefer Christian denominations that have women priests/pastors and deacons.

I have heard men, too, say that the idea of God being male makes them uncomfortable, because they were abused by their fathers, but I think that that is less common.

[alchemy63]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I don't know, it just seems to me, if I was a female, I'd find it offensive that God was only allowed to be male. I'm a male, and it still offends me.

I'd find it offensive that God was only allowed to be male

I don't believe that's the case. If we are using a language that doesn't have a pronoun that means "of both genders" then we're kind of stuck with either "he" or "she". ("It" in English doesn't generally refer to people, so that wouldn't work.)

I just think of it as a semantic thing and don't worry about it. When I think about the nature of God, I don't think of "Him" as a gendered being.

[(JD)]

The language is specific in it's plurality and that shows masculine gender. However, it also says that we were called adam, meaning from the earth... not that the guy was called that, but the two people (if you believe the account as I do)... And I also believe we were made in "His" image... though there is a good discussion about how that results (such as body, soul, spirit trinity or what.)

But to take offense?

If something can't offend in known quantities (meaning a known such as in science, it cannot offend).... then perhaps the idea that it's up to you about being offended? A person controls whether they want to be offended or not, when it comes to choices... opinions...and unknowns.

As for Him? How can you put a gender on pure truth and love? And what good would it do?

[alchemy63]

I guess it comes down to a difference in viewpoints and beliefs. I don't follow that religion. Maybe some people are more accepting of Master/Ruler/Servant relationships? To me God isn't my ruler or my master, but is more like a friend. I see God as a spirit, an energy, not a gender role. Giving God a gender seems disrespectful to the non God gender to me.

[(JD)]

Is that a reply to me? (just asking) if so..to which religion are you referring? The 3 major ones all hold to what I stated.

[*Laurie*]

I grew up as a Jew, so God was referred to as 'He'. To me, that's just the way some people interpreted God way back when in ancient history. I agree with what Thunder Bow posted. I believe that the creator is genderless...unless It was an alien being, in which case it could have been a 'he'. Whatever the case, no...I don't take the gender of God personally.

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by alchemy63

I guess it comes down to a difference in viewpoints and beliefs. I don't follow that religion. Maybe some people are more accepting of Master/Ruler/Servant relationships? To me God isn't my ruler or my master, but is more like a friend. I see God as a spirit, an energy, not a gender role. Giving God a gender seems disrespectful to the non God gender to me.

That is because Religion is all about social order and control. It has nothing to do with the universe and all its powers.

[doyoutrustme]

If you know how to read Hebrew and the Torah properly, you would be able to see that God is referred to by multiple names. Some of them are masculine, some of them are feminine. It depends on the particular quality and context

[alchemy63]

Thanks for everyones input. Let's be careful not to get into a religious debate here, we all know what happens if we do.

My question is about the use of the term 'He' when describing who God is and what sort of psychological impact that may have upon various persons.

My point is, if you can think of it this way, a situation where you have two people in a room. In the room is a third person who is going to give one of them a special treat, let's make it a brand new luxury Rolls Royce. The other person is going to receive, well, nothing. They've both been told they were coming here to this room today to be loved and valued and honored, but, only one of them will receive the gift. No explanation will be offered and if one is, it bears no resemblance to logic, just that, well, it was scripted this way.

My question is about how the person who has received no gift feels? Do they feel they must have done something wrong to not receive the gift? Do they feel cheated? Do they feel left out or devalued?

When it is consistently repeated that God is a "He" and the implied inference is that females have no God qualities themselves, how does it make them feel about being a female? How is labeling God a male and only a male, just and fair? Since this is a website for psychological healing, and since God is frequently referred to as a male in this forum, I am asking for a psychologically sound explanation for why it is that God is male.

[*Laurie*]

I don't think there is a 'psychologically sound reason'. The reason is based in history...ancient people and their survival, not psychology. Well, unless you might say that there was something psychologically appealing/believable for ancient people to see God as a male, a great father.

[(JD)]

Why would a female have no God qualities? For me, that's too big a leap

In fact, females were made from males... so to speak, yes? And we carry male hormones (hear them roar when out of balance?!) Plus, as I mentioned, when one looks at being in the image of God that doesn't necessarily mean male. In psychology we say that each person is a spirit, soul, and body. The soul, contrary to what some have taught, is the mind, will and emotions. (It is the spirit that is the energy that is eternal.)

So in that one case alone, we are like God, being pluralistic (a trinity of spirit soul and body).

For me, God is the perfect father. Unlike my earthly father who was not perfect---just as none of us are perfect. It IS comforting for me.

I suppose, that if God were portrayed in the female voice there would be those with maternal issues if the abuser in the family was female?

[Thunder Bow]

It gives God a parental feel. "father" To help one feel needed and also evoke one to obey his laws. Laws that are written by man. Obey your father kind of thing. It is used to control ones behaviour and keep one in line. To keep one being subservient to a ruler or ruling family.

[Gus1234U]

however, briefly, i will say YES, i object to the androgenic portrayal, or conversely, the suppression of the gynodynamic deities.

[nicoleflynn]

God is a spirit.

[AuroraBorealis75]

So who is God for someone who needs a perfect mother? Am I left out in the cold?

Originally Posted by (JD)

For me, God is the perfect father. Unlike my earthly father who was not perfect---just as none of us are perfect. It IS comforting for me.

I suppose, that if God were portrayed in the female voice there would be those with maternal issues if the abuser in the family was female?

[alchemy63]

To help one feel needed and also evoke one to obey his laws.

This to me sounds like the believer is feeling a form of inadequacy, having a need to feel needed, and, also, to obey God's laws, to me, places me in a position of personal weakness, removing from my character, the ability to choose for myself what is right and good. I feel stronger in having an alliance with God's love, rather than a servant role. The perspective that God is my friend, not my master, changes the dynamic of the relationship I feel with God. No friend would demand that I worship them, nor would a true friend seek to punish me for common human mistakes.

The reason is based in history...ancient people and their survival, not psychology. Well, unless you might say that there was something psychologically appealing/believable for ancient people to see God as a male, a great father.

Our present perspective about historical male/female gender roles appears to place the male in the stronger position, being that, it was the male gender whom braved the fierce beasts hunted for food. Could that be why it is commonly thought that males are the strongest of the gender and so, for that reason, Gods' gender is assigned a male role? Again, such thinking appears to me to negate the positive traits females possess.

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by alchemy63

To help one feel needed and also evoke one to obey his laws.

This to me sounds like the believer is feeling a form of inadequacy, having a need to feel needed, and, also, to obey God's laws, to me, places me in a position of personal weakness, removing from my character, the ability to choose for myself what is right and good. I feel stronger in having an alliance with God's love, rather than a servant role. The perspective that God is my friend, not my master, changes the dynamic of the relationship I feel with God. No friend would demand that I worship them, nor would a true friend seek to punish me for common human mistakes.

The reason is based in history...ancient people and their survival, not psychology. Well, unless you might say that there was something psychologically appealing/believable for ancient people to see God as a male, a great father.

Our present perspective about historical male/female gender roles appears to place the male in the stronger position, being that, it was the male gender whom braved the fierce beasts hunted for food. Could that be why it is commonly thought that males are the strongest of the gender and so, for that reason, Gods' gender is assigned a male role? Again, such thinking appears to me to negate the positive traits females possess.

You are speaking in more inline with Faith rather than Religion. Faith is more of a personal thing or connection with Spirit. Male and Female energy is found in Spirit.

[alchemy63]

I'm reluctant to apply the term 'faith' to to my personalized collection of spiritual beliefs/awareness. To me, 'faith' relies upon a certain amount of blind trust. There is nothing blind about my understandings of spirit. I suspect that others are less interested in my personal beliefs, but would be more interested in hearing truths that they themselves could apply in their own lives.

Around us are stories, fables, examples of right behavior and incorrect behavior. The stories and books we read attempt to show the rewards of right action and the consequences of wrong actions. People, individually, have the freedom to reason and decide for themselves what is truth and for as long as they believe what they believe, it is personal truth for them. However, it should be remembered, that the truth they have arrived at is not everyones' truth, it is only their own truth and it is only a truth for the period of time they choose to continue believing it.

Knowledge grows and accumulates by the development of truths during the course of ones life. What seems true and correct today, may not always be truth forever.

Some truths' are everlasting. The truth that love is the greatest of all spirits, and the truth that love gives us strength in the face of all problems we face, is one such truth. It is immutable and permanent. Love has no gender. It is obtainable and posses-sable by males and females alike and each gender has the power of love in their hands. That is why I am opposed to the concept that God is male and only male.

[Thunder Bow]

As I first said, the Male god is a product of a male dominated culture. Love is an human emotion common to both sexes. Religions asks for blind trust (faith). Faith is more than that.

[(JD)]

Originally Posted by alchemy63

I'm reluctant to apply the term 'faith' to to my personalized collection of spiritual beliefs/awareness. To me, 'faith' relies upon a certain amount of blind trust. There is nothing blind about my understandings of spirit.

Nothing? are you sure? I mean, you see, hear, talk to, etc your understanding of spirit? (Not auras, but spirit...)

Everyone has faith. It could just be in the chair in which you are sitting...or the food you are eating.

[alchemy63]

One thing I've tried to avoid is making expressions like 'mine is better than yours' when it comes to discussing spirituality so when you ask what and how I experience spirit it's very hard to prevent sounding argumentative and I apologize if I've come across that way.

I wish there was a short answer to your question but I feel it's important enough to try and be clear in this section of the forums.

No, I don't really see a figure or a person when I talk and spend time connecting spiritually. I see God in people, in the loving acts they perform each day for one another. I imagine having discussions with strong, loving people I've known or read about. Spirit, to me, is not a specific individual but I see it as an arrangement of emotions with love being at its' highest level. When I spend time spiritualizing, I make the most honest assessment of myself possible and I measure the nature of my own acts to what I understand the acts of the purest form of love to be. If I have, or am, acting/feeling in some way which feels to be selfish, I question if the feeling I'm having is really for the highest good of all and I try to correct myself as I go along. I wish to not neglect my own needs, nor the needs of others, nor do I make my own, or the needs of others higher than anyone elses. I try to find a perfect balance where everyones' needs are respected.

Sometimes people will share experiences with me about how they've been treated by others in their lives and I do the same sort of assessment about others actions, non judgmentally, with my goal being to focus and encourage love for self, and each other. To me, to be loving, is the best mental health practice I can imagine. I may fall short of the goal, but I try.