Reply to Rap re supportive/unsupportive and cats

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Rapunzel said:
In this forum, where people are talking about something so personal as their beliefs and values and faith, we need to be careful not to sound like we are being invalidating about something that is so close to someone's heart. So, to the person who thinks cats are the best (remember we're really talking about expressing their heartfelt spiritual beliefs), it could be hurtful to say "I dislike cats because I am allergic to them." It isn't necessary to say anything at all against cats, or to be in any way critical of a person's stated belief. In the cat example, the person originally said "I believe that cats are the best." That is a personal belief. You may not share that belief, but you being allergic to cats is not relevant to their belief that cats are the best.

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Okay, I think you've made that clear, thanks. I guess part of my struggle about this is knowing that disagreeing does not necessarily equal invalidating or putting down. But if folks are highly sensitive to feeling invalidated or put down, even when in reality, objectively that is not happening, then I can see how it would be better for them if no one posted anything that differs from their views.

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify and explain this to me. I hope it's not non-supportive for me to say I don't agree with this approach, though given the above, I suppose it sure as heck could be taken that way regardless. But it's easy enough to follow now.

Thanks.

gg

PS It occurs to me as I get ready to post this that respect and support goes both ways. I'm thinking of the cat example again, though I realize that it's not on the same page as spiritual beliefs. Still, I respect anyone's right to think cats are the best pet. However, I have reasons to believe otherwise, reasons which are extremely important to me, and in this case crucial to my well-being. So if one is allowed to say they think cats are best, but I'm not to talk about my own important cat issues because someone might feel put down due to my allergy, well, that's not supportive to me, is it? So it's just who gets to posting it first to some extent, I suppose. Or, I have to respect you, but you don't need to bother to respect me, at least not in a thread you started.

And to bring it back to spiritual beliefs, I am quite likely to have very important to me reasons for believing as I do. First, I know I'm beating a dead horse about this, but my beliefs have nothing to do with anyone else's, so if someone feels put down by them, (assuming I've communicated in a respectful, active first person voice way) well, then they need to extract themselves from my space. And to say that my belief is not relevant to their belief, well, what's the point of posting then, if not to have dialog of some sort about what you post? Unless one just wants to have a billboard of sorts? But beyond that...oh never mind. Bah. My head hurts now.

Like I said before, easy enough directives to follow. That's probably good tylenol.

thanks again

gg

Hi, gg.

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Okay, I think you've made that clear, thanks. I guess part of my struggle about this is knowing that disagreeing does not necessarily equal invalidating or putting down.

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That's true and is acted on in any other forum but this one.

Why, you ask? OK, yes, I have a vivid imagination and can almost hear it.

It's not that posting a differing or opposing view is automatically unsupportive and inappropriate, or that others' views aren't important or not valid. They are important and can be stated, but if they might be taking away from another's stated belief or faith *in this forum*, it's best to state yours in another thread.

It's generally not OK to do here because belief is something that others knowingly hold strong feelings about. Also, posting disagreement to another's personal beliefs regarding *faith* can feel yucky, just because, and way down deep to the core. It might not be easily explainable, but still *is* due to the strong, personal faiths grabbed hold of individually.

It's almost stronger than...say I make a post about my child, my love of my life just to say how awesome something is that he's done and how it affected me, and someone comes on and says, "I disagree with your belief that he's a good child, with good intent, because you told me once that he said this which indicates he's not a good child." OUCH...that can hurt deep for some, granted not all.

Because of this, we have specifically requested that responses in this forum, be made specifically to contribute not only something positive for all reading, but especially positive for the OP even if that means only posting in positive reinforcement or agreement, or not posting at all in that thread, and take something that might be construed as invalidating a personal belief to another thread.

Now, that said, say I make that same post today...it would be not only acceptable, but appropriate for you to start another thread to say, "I've been wondering about children. I don't understand how a child that acts out continually can only be perceived of as good by its mother. Can other mothers help me understand that?" Now, in doing that others then make the decision to apply the same I've written above to your thread...respond positively as they feel they have something to contribute to your topic.

In this, you still discuss your thoughts prompted by another without taking from the OP's personal reasons for creating a thread, etc. Much the same as you have done with this thread.

I hope that helps.

KD

Goodness,

I just went back to read and saw where it said, "Reply to Rap" indicating this was to her and her alone.

Sorry about that, gg.

Love,

KD

Since I've already stuck my foot in it, I want to add...(sorry)

Faith and spirituality are such strong and individualized actions that they're not always thought about intellectually by a person at its core.

For instance, I have a profound belief. I could tell you why I think I do to keep it going and what I grab hold of to support, but the belief, then faith, was there before. I think it was there because I have a desperate need inside me to believe as I do, that I couldn't put into words if I tried.

It's one of those things that "just is" and in a big way.

Love,

KD

GG, thanks for bringing this to a new thread. It is worth discussing and we needed to let the other thread go back to its original topic. What KD said is what I have been hoping to convey also. It is because in this forum we are talking about deeply held feelings that we need to be so careful not to step on someone else's feelings. Cats are just what I choose as an example, of course.

Suppose someone posted about how much religion has meant in their life. Someone else comes along and feels they have been hurt by rigid religious teachings that they grew up having imposed on them by overly strict parents. The one who has been hurt should not post to the original poster about all the negative effects that religion has, but they could start their own thread and talk about their experiences. Both need to be supportive of each other, and not go into each others' threads and openly disagree with the others' beliefs and experiences. Back to the cat example, you could start a thread about your cat allergy, and I think it would be fine as long as you own that it is your allergy. It wouldn't be threatening to say "I never really saw the benefits of having cats, as my allergy keeps me from enjoying them." But it would be a problem if you said "Cats are really horrible animals that make people miserable." Everyone's experience is what it is. I guess what we really need is to own our experience and our feelings, while allowing others room for their own different experience. We would also expect the member who feels blessed by their religious experiences to respect the feelings of the one who was hurt, and not tell that person that they will be condemned for their unbelief, or anything else that invalidates that person's experience.

There is so much potential for hurt when we get into these subjects. There is also a lot of potential for good, and there is a need for a place to talk about spiritual matters, whether it is to request spiritual support, or to share light and blessings, or to ask questions when one isn't sure, or to discuss hurts and try to make sense of things. We all need to remember that not everyone feels the same, and not pick at or discount someone else's feelings or beliefs. Instead of saying "I disagree with your beliefs" we can keep our statements positive, start a new thread, and say 'My experience is ..." or "I believe this." I guess what it really comes down to is "I statements," that, and leaving a thread or a subject alone if what you think, feel, or believe would take away from it instead of adding to it.

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kimmydawn said:
Goodness,

I just went back to read and saw where it said, "Reply to Rap" indicating this was to her and her alone.

Sorry about that, gg.

Love,

KD

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No worries. If I ever wanted to post something to one person alone, I'd use a PM. I just wanted to identify where the post originated. I appreciate your insights and input.

Thanks!

gg

KD

Thanks for that excellent explanation, Rap. I appreciate you taking time to help me with this. I agree with much of what you've said, especially the parts about owning one's beliefs and feelings and expressing from that stance. I can understand how one's spiritual feelings can be a "touchier" subject than others might be and thus, the different conventions here. I might quibble about how what adds or doesn't add to a discussion is in the eye of the beholder, but that's not primary to the issue, imo so I'll let that one go.

You've given me the information I need to know what is and is not expected from admin for posting on this forum, and that makes making posting decisions a whole bunch easier.

Thanks,

gg

From time to time, I think we just need to be reminded of expectations in this forum.

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This is a safe place where members of the community can go and discuss spiritual issues.

As a reminder, this is specifically not a place to debate issues of religion.

Welcome and enjoy!
DocJohn

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It is different than the other forums, but maybe only because the support theme is strictly enforced? The entire site (Psych Central) is supposed to be filled with nothing but supportive replies and efforts (as per DocJohn.) It's just that in other forums, in the act of trying to discuss situations etc and reason with members, it doesn't always come out that way. With this forum, it is expected to give support or basic agreement only, or if the member who originates the thread requests posting of one's own ideas/beliefs, that's ok. Even with that, you can't post against another member's post. That's not allowed anywhere (or it used to not be.) You can post what you believe here, if someone requests that, but not in a thread that is supportive for another belief. It can be tricky.