Afraid to be spiritual...

I wish. That's not even close. I'm basically a chronic escapist, that's all. Dealing with concrete reality is draining and frustrating; not saying that's a healthy outlook, but it's far from living in total delusion.

I'm saying spiritual stuff ins't real though I want it to be and that's schizophrenic sentencing?

You're mistaken here: I never said I had no formal education - I said I failed out of college (technically, I withdrew from almost all my classes because I was failing, but it's practically the same).

Um, okay. I think the internet has been giving me enough of a daily reality check...even if I'm not that good at it.

Sheesh dude, how many posts did you make?

Supposedly it's very common among gifted individuals - though in my case, I didn't start feelign it hard until I began to hang out online with a lot of people who discuss that kind of stuff, who are into philosophy and such, and I started internalizing the problems myself.

How and which part?

I'm not in any field. I failed out of school. I considered being a biology major, and a while ago I thought I should go back and study physics to prove I'm intelligent enough to do it, but I'm too stupid for STEM. But the internet is rife with debunking of every spiritual phenomena plus the modern rationalist and skeptic communities asserting that this is all woo for emotionally needy people who can't understand reality so they need magic to make it worthwhile. Or so the rhetoric goes.

And I kind of can't tell whether you're bashing me for wanting to be spiritual, or for being afraid of it.

I have many of the same struggles, and I also have spiritual beliefs and practices, both. I have never been, nor will I ever likely be, someone who can take things on 'pure faith' alone. I have found that there are belief systems (whether shared by others, or individualistic) that can fit quite nicely within scientific thinking/questioning/doubts, and what is commonly known as agnosticism (which sounds to me like what you are describing, at least on a spiritual level). Two things that help me on a regular basis:

1. if you don't have some level of fear/doubt (around life/reality/death), you're probably doing it wrong, no matter who you are or what you believe in. (and no, I'm not slamming religion here, or anything else for that matter)

2. David Suzuki, a much-loved Japanese Canadian zoologist and environmental activist, wrote something in one of his books that forever changed the way I look at the spirituality/science debate, and the question of life in general (and I'm uncertain if they were his words or if he was quoting someone else in that particular essay). to paraphrase: many people believe that science and spirituality are separate, but it's actually quite the contrary, for how can you (as a scientist) have all this information about the inner workings of the universe and not be in awe of how it came to be that way?

I think too that it's important to remember that there are many ways to have a spiritual experience, and almost none of them have to do with religion, regardless of what you believe. (again, not slamming religion, or anything else for that matter)

Another thing that's helped me in times of crisis when I've struggled with issues of belief, especially in tandem with my mental and emotional health issues, is the advice someone gave me in a support group: when it comes to matters of spirituality and religion, tread lightly, because a lot of it can be intensely triggering (for various reasons). I have found this to be true for myself.

Just my two cents/life experience/things that've helped me along the way. Hope it helps; take what you like and leave the rest.

What's so bad about being seen as ridiculous? If you're pulled to study a subject, why not study it. Maybe pushing past the fear of being ridiculous is part of the spiritual journey.

I wish I had been here for the beginning of this conversation as you've written so much since this thread was begun, I don't know where to start - but very much would like to and so...

First, I am hesitant due to concerns that I shall inadvertently overstep the restrictions of this forum. If I do, my apologies in advance; I shall make a sincere effort not to.

Careful thinker...yes. I am a past member of MENSA, though my membership has not been renewed. Degree's in mathematics and physics, my ninth grade science project was commandeered by the Pentagon, published in the prestigious Journal of American Mathematical Society as a college sophmore, which is the same year my computer science 101 project earned me a second visit from the Pentagon and is, as I understand it, still the foundation of coded messages for the government.

Please risk believing that I understand your dilemma. And yet, today, my spirituality is the foundation of my existence. Born into a lapsed Catholic universe, my scientifically oriented mindset balked at religion with zeal. So entrenched, I chose to ignore the first rule of science - observation. I chose to turn a blind eye to experiences that threatened a very orderly thought process. It was unsustainable.

A visiting professor during an advanced post-graduate lecture on quantum mechanics stopped at one point and smiled at me. "I was concerned that no one has adequately understood the ramifications of the material I'm presenting today, but based on the sudden look of terror on your face, I see that at least one person has."

I have studied and discarded much in the realms of religion and spirituality, but I have found some aspects undeniable through my own experiences. I don't drink anyone's kool-aid, but to paraphrase on of my more helpful guides and the inadvertent founder of one of the world's religions, believe nothing just because I said it but instead try it out for yourself and make sure that it is truth. A very scientific method if ever there was one.

It has bothered me too. It bothers me less today. Not because I've found truth there but simply because all people seek to explain what they don't understand and I understand that we all do not have the same capacity for logical thought.

As a physicist, at least in academic circles (I've never been employed as a physicist), I completely understand your point. It can be frustrating.

I don't accept that either, btw.

If I understood any more - I'd be you.

I'm an atheist, so I'll certainly not be telling you to let go and let god. On the other hand, I do have a concept of 'god' but continue to call myself an atheist because my understanding of the word 'god' is so far removed from the anthropomorphic representations of most as to render it less than meaningless in a conversation.

See, I'm not as intelligent as you. I'm useless in STEM and was religious (sort-of) growing up - heck, I was an altar server and got confirmed, even though by that point I had enough doubts in Christianity and organized religion for it to not really mean anything. But I knew if I said anything it would be too disruptive - hell, even now my mom doesn't take well to my not being a Christian.

I have a very poor capacity for logical thought myself. I don't know any details, I'm honestly just taking what other people say about how certain claims are wrong.

Don't accept that the rational and spiritual can operate in different realms, I assume you mean? Given the alternative stuff I'd been looking into (more so now, on some recent inspiration), the idea of it is frustrating.

I'm not trying to force labels or anything...but you're more like a (pan)deist or pantheist, maybe? Or spiritual-but-not-religious? That's the kind of stuff I gravitate towards, in addition to what I guess you could cal more "magical" practices.

I can't call myself an atheist, though I seem similar to you in that I think there's something there, but no, it's not the humanized thing of organized religion. "God" as a force rather than a being makes much more sense to me.

The Buddha taught that nothing is hidden...

It's not a contest. I was just trying to explain that I understand. Besides, there are much more important qualities a person can have than intelligence. I'll take kind over intelligence any day.

A lot of that going on. You aren't alone. But it takes a strong person to break away.

Perhaps. Though I thought that the way you described your dilemma from a personal point of view to be logical.

You read me right.

Spiritual but not religious. I don't believe anything I read or hear at face value. If I don't experience it, it doesn't have a chance. I have an electronic copy of a book; I think you'd like it. You are welcome to it if you can figure out a way for me to get it to you. It's a spiritual fantasy geared toward young adults - easy read, no preaching. In fact, a person might miss the spiritual angle if he or she were so inclined.

And to me.

Prayer here

Wow, this is coming back again. All the stuff I wanted to explore, has fallen away...and it hurts. It's so dumb: I just feel like, spirituality is just another kind of magic I wish was real...and I can't respect myself if I allow myself to be sucked in by silliness...even though I still wonder if it's silliness. Sorry to necro a thread of mine.

I tossed a bunch of stuff I was going to experiment with, but I have started attending the Unitarian church across the street from where I live instead. Interesting stuff: there is a Christian-like ritual aspect to it, but the sermons are on freethought and seeking truth, about courage to be individual. And I made a friend.

I don't know - the sadness from it, from spirituality being possibly being completely wrong, of nothing higher or better in us...just thinking and wanted to talk.

You seem to seek out hypotheses of that which you dislike about yourself as a form of confirmation bias coincidental to what you were told early on. Without challenging the veracity of what you believe, I fear for your well-being.

Same as me I'm scared I will be playing with the devil but I have had a gift for a long long time and some thing inside said that I am so confused really

In irish you have two types of knowledge ,fios which is intuitive/otherworld/spiritual knowledge,mantic insight and sous which is book/reasoned knowledge.

It's really important to have both types of knowledge,dreams are a good way to cultivate fios knowledge,I get historical knowledge,mythic knowledge,prophetic knowledge and all sorts of otherworld knowledge from dreams.
that's one easy way you can develop your spiritual side while remaining a thinker.

Lastly I'll quote Einstein"the rational mind is a faithful servant and the intuitive mind is a gift,we have a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift."
Einstein dreamt many of his theories and even myself I have dreamt complex scientific theories.

This thread keeps getting revived. I've given up. I can't do it. I can't let myself be some stupid, deluded person who thinks we are spiritual beings when we're as much animals with higher brain functions.

I can't bear to believe there's nothing 'higher' to people - but smarter people say it's the truth so there's no point in seeking anything beyond. I can't bring myself to believe seriously in woo - writing fiction about it is one thing, acting on it is another. I'm done.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. It's very nice when you understand that we are spiritual beings. Then we stop chasing the illusion QUITE as much.

It's incredibly insulting for you to suggest that people who believe we have a spiritual aspect are stupid.

I think you have to strict a definition to which is spirtual,

simple existence is the spirtual experience.

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I agree with Mr. we are triune beings: body soul and spirit... so we're physical, mindful/emotional, and spiritual by our very nature.

Not everyone wishes to develop his physical body, or exercise his mind, and some do not wish to consider any deeper spiritual issues than the basic.

I'm afraid to be spiritual too, though at the same time I want to be.

trigger-
I was sexually abused by a priest and have PTSD so that's my reason.