[nowheretorun]

what is catharsis?

[SeptemberMorn]

For me, it's a cleansing of impurities, either in the body or the spirit/mind.

[Perna]

A strong breakthrough where you're both awed at the "new" in front of you and covered with the dirt and grime associated with breaking through the old (think brick wall and being covered with plaster and broken bricks all around one).

[SeptemberMorn]

Umm... hehe... maybe I should have waited for someone else to post before I did. I really don't thing that Darrel's question is really about "you're both awed". I know *I* am... but then, that wasn't a part that I knew about Darrel from three years ago. Maybe it wasn't there then. He has mentionted that "catharsis is painful" but I don't think he was speaking only of his and my relationship three years ago.

If I was to put a name to what is happening between the two of us now, it would be "epiphany."

AWW Geez, Perna!? You made me talk!

I appreciate you greatly, friend!

[nowheretorun]

yes, you are correct Tomi... catharsis is very personal to me... i just wanted to gather information available, personal opinions... others experiences... it would help me personally and if somehow others also discover something in dialogue... that'd be cool too

and Perna.... i really like the response you gave...

[nowheretorun]

that's how i see it too Tomi

[SeptemberMorn]

hehehe Are you surprised?

[nowheretorun]

lets suppose i've just had a breakthrough like Perna suggested... what might be the absolute best way to apply the new found information?

my answer? to use my healing to heal others...

besides the three of us it'd be great if more people got involved... (although i think we're doing rather well Sept and Perna

[(JD)]

I've checked 3 times already in reading this thread to make sure I was in the spirituality forum

I think perhaps it would be better placed in psychotherapy or self help?

But, with regards to the spiritual aspect of this phenomena, I will respond, OK?

For catharsis to occur one needs a type of abreaction. I would give example of realizing you are lost in your sin and when you die, you are not going to heaven. Then, you hear of God's love and His salvation paid for by Christ, and you, perhaps sobbing from your guilt and fear accept this Payment for your sin. The carthartic prayer occurs, along with the resulting freedom of the doom and gloom.

(Not everyone who accepts Christ has such a sequence (abreaction-cartharsis) and it isn't required for salvation.)

[Perna]

One of the definitions Google gives is entertaining:

"According to Aristotle, as interpreted by Freud and Lacan, catharsis (as found, for example, in the tragedies of Sophocles) produces a pleasurable calm by exciting the emotions, homeopathically one might say."

[SeptemberMorn]

"...homeopathically" can also be interpreted as holeistically, which would include all three, the body, mind and spirit.

I've noticed a spiritual catharsis in Darrel.

[nowheretorun]

ive been doin this a long time Tomi, i'm not aware of many others who do...

Sky, thank you... i guess i should really do a lot of this research myself... you all are angels when it gets brought for me... not lazy, but

and also, most of the catharsis ive done was individually.. it helps to hear what others thoughts are about it... i believe it exists in Catholicism? probably others but defined in different terminologies...

a phenomona?

like when some people bleed the Tears of Mary? or that other one... scars in the hand similar to Christs' Nails?

gee.. now i wanna change this into a thread about spiritual phenomona ....

naw, better stay on course...

also psychological and self-help; homeopathy and holism? ; spirituality... edited in: and Perna's contribution, destruction and re-creation...

and what about the inner conflict which seems to fuel the process?

is there more here?

[Rapunzel]

((( Darrel )))

For now, I just want to say that I'm reading. I like a lot of what has been said so far. Catharsis sounds like a deep cleansing or healing to me, and sounds very positive. I'll probably have more to say later. I think that spiritual phenomena can be a big part of catharsis. It feels like a connection there fits.

Rap

[nowheretorun]

Rapunzel

imo catharsis has a positive result... i must be doing it wrong though... the process up to now hasn't been all that pleasant, but the rewards have kept me at it...

i'm sure there's a process manual inside the Roman Cathedral and i'm sure there's an abundance of info on the net...

i'm enjoying this discussion... glad you decided to join in

[SeptemberMorn]

Darrel... for what it's worth, I allowed the Holy Spirit to lead me in what you call catharsis. For me, it hasn't been pleasant, no. There's often quite a bit of inner turmoil and pain. But through prayer and meditation (usually listening to hymns) the peace eventually comes and settles in quite nicely.

If you listen to that Josh Groban song I sent you, think "God or Jesus Christ" while you listen to the words. See what it does for you. I also concentrate on the words "sit here in the silence." I find sometimes that I do so much talking that I can't hear Him speak.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thank you for coming back. "Thank GOD you came back."

[Perna]

The part of the Google definition that attracted me was "produces a pleasurable calm by exciting the emotions" which sounds a bit like the aftermath of sex only sex would be the physical versus the emotional. So, catharsis is a "climax" of sorts. Following that example, one would want to try and imagine what a "mental" climax would be and I think that would equate to the "A-ha!"/lightbulb experience of understanding something?

[SeptemberMorn]

I fully understand what you're saying, Perna. Through my own experience, sex is pleasureable from beginning to end. However, my catharis, the begining and up to the end, hasn't been pleasurable. Maybe catharsis is different for other people, IDK.

If you'll forgive my crudeness, I equate catharsis with an enema.

[nowheretorun]

Everyone...

TOMI said: "...for what it's worth, I allowed the Holy Spirit to lead me in what you call catharsis. For me, it hasn't been pleasant, no. There's often quite a bit of inner turmoil and pain. But through prayer and meditation (usually listening to hymns) the peace eventually comes and settles in quite nicely."

as a spiritual process... yes....

i create a surrounding... bring myself to a state of mind with courage to tackle the bigpile of "gunk" thats been building up and i havent processed yet...

TOMI: "I find sometimes that I do so much talking that I can't hear Him speak."

yes... answers in quiet stillness, no? but first the mental screaming rages a bit... faster heartbeats, blood rushes, emotions equated with tumbling...

i use imagery, prayers, music to help the process along ... do you use imagery? literary heroes? i use those too... as well as historical greats i know a little about... words of ancestors... the sages of the ages...

yes, Tomi, and i am glad to be back from the brinks of hell...

the coolest thing about it is how it is really so much climbing the proverbial mountain... without meds, without therapy, at times just self and maker... its those times that i've appreciated the angels who've appeared in my life, exactly it seems at exactly the right time...

everyone is my teacher... remember that one?

Perna: i enjoy your contributions so much ... first you described it in terms of complete chaotic rebirth.. now, we're having climaxes... (enjoying) : )

[SeptemberMorn]

"do use imagery?"

A resounding YES! I've always been "imaginative." During regression therapy, my T taught me how to use it as a tool. She had me envision "home." It is a house on quite a large lot. On this lot is a rose garden and in this garden is a stone bench. (I do have a rose garden for real. I talk to Him there when I'm caring for the roses. )

Then as well as now, when life beats me up, when I can't find anyone else to talk to, etc., I go to that garden. Invariably, Jesus is sitting on that bench. Sometimes I just drop to my knees and lay my head on his lap and he lays his hands on my head and smooths my hair. Other times, I'll sit next to him and he'll wrap me up in his arms of love. It can get so vivid, that I feel the weight of his robe around me. There's no need for words. He already knows and that's why he's waiting there for me.

The music? "I Come to the Garden Alone."

I come to the garden alone
While the dew is still on the roses
And the voice I hear falling on my ear
The Son of God discloses.

And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

He speaks, and the sound of His voice,
Is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
And the melody that He gave to me
Within my heart is ringing.

I’d stay in the garden with Him
Though the night around me be falling,
But He bids me go; through the voice of woe
His voice to me is calling.

[nowheretorun]

i believe i've heard a Statler version of the song... heh, been hearing it since i was a kid... what i didn't know then was the meaning it would have later in my life... a seed...

mom and i have some drinks (beer for me) and put on gospel.. we enjoy the spiritual discussion.. real special times for me..

I'm very curious about the words to the cathartic prayer Sky mentioned... still reading Sky? hope you're well...

Thanks ...

[nowheretorun]

and of course i thought of more after my initial reaction... a safe place... someplace where the connection seems strongest... we have a lot of vista points in the area.. have spent a lot of time in them... searching... for answers...

i've also connected in dark alleyways where the smells are like open sewage and only shadows move...

a Zen saying i remember: a tiger was chasing a monk across the field when all at one there was a cliff and the only escape was to jump 300 or so feet straight down..

the monk looks at the tiger and makes his decision quickly as he narrowly escapes the tigers powerful swing... and gets hooked on a branch stopping his fall about 15 feet from the top, an easy climb back up...

on the branch which stopped his fall was one purplish/pink blossom... to himself he said: "I have never seen such beauty."

the fear for life back from certain death response... who do we thank? in the riddle the answer is to be deduced, the answer is clear... who has made beauty? none other than... God..

catharsis is a spiritual endeavor... a seeking by one human being and mysteriously, the journey actually leads somewhere...

Thanks again Tomi for participating in this process... very real...

[SeptemberMorn]

Beautiful story, Darrel!

As for a carthatic prayer... being protestant, Sky and I, it would come from one's own heart. At this point, I'm not sure if you're asking about a previously written one as in the Hail Mary, etc. that are found in the Catholic denomination. Is that what you are asking about?

[nowheretorun]

earlier in the thread Sky said:

""For catharsis to occur one needs a type of abreaction. I would give example of realizing you are lost in your sin and when you die, you are not going to heaven. Then, you hear of God's love and His salvation paid for by Christ, and you, perhaps sobbing from your guilt and fear accept this Payment for your sin. The carthartic prayer occurs, along with the resulting freedom of the doom and gloom.

(Not everyone who accepts Christ has such a sequence (abreaction-cartharsis) and it isn't required for salvation.)""

[The carthartic prayer occurs, ...]

The prayer referenced above.

Thank you for helping Tomi.

[SeptemberMorn]

I'm very curious about the words to the cathartic prayer Sky mentioned...

This is what I responded to in my last post. Did I miss something?

[nowheretorun]

so, you're saying the individual makes up his/her own words to the prayer... ? excuse me for being dense here...