How To Get People To Believe Me

KUREHA · Jan 21, 2012, 06:18 AM

I'm sick of the sleeper cells - no one ****ing believes me - I know people here do and my friend does mostly.

The doctors and nurses don't though and it's kind of important they do - since I need their help so people will believe me instead of thinking I'm cazy.

The nurse is still thinking about hospital - my nurse wouldn't do that to me.

It's going to cost me a lot of money to stay safe from them and to get proof.

I'm scared and no one will help - because they don't believe what I'm saying, yeah they believe I believe it - but that doesn't help much.

costello · Jan 21, 2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUREHA

I'm sick of the sleeper cells - no one ****ing believes me - I know people here do and my friend does mostly.

Hi, Kureha. My son has a similar problem. It's not that he wants people to believe something but that he wants others to understand something. He becomes severely frustrated - to the point of violence - if he feels like someone isn't understanding whatever he's telling them.

Again maybe this is a young person's thing. Possibly I felt that intense about having other people understand and believe everything I said when I was young. Maybe it's just years of experience which has allowed me to relax. I know over the years people have told me things which I didn't understand or believe, then later - sometimes many years later, long after the person is out of my life - I'd suddenly understand what they were saying or change my mind and agree with them. They'll never know, of course, because we'll probably never meet again. So, I know if I've had that experiencce, probably others do too.

Also I hold some ideas and opinions that might be considered non-standard. I believe a high-fat diet, including saturated fat, is healthy, for example. I also don't believe sz is a biologlical brain disease which inevitably requires life-long medication. I also live in a culture that worships sports and where almost all adults drink alcohol, but I detest both. In my ideal world, no one would drink or force their interest in sports on the rest of us by turning every tv in every public place to a basketball game with the volume on full blast. We'd all be eating a diet of whole foods, including tons of butter and cream and other animal fats. And when a person broke down in mental distress and started acting out, instead of the police, we'd call in a SWAT team of Buddhist monks who would be present with the person in distress and his or her family until a feeling of peace and calm was restored.

Now, I just know my version of the world would be better than what we have now. If everyone would just listen to me, understand me, believe me, do what I say, we'd all be so much happier. But it isn't going to happen. So I accept the fact that if I tell someone that I think Atkins is a healthy diet and I hope my son will be off meds altogether some day, they're going to look at me as if I'm insane. I do feel frustrated when I'm dismissed that way, but it isn't worth my energy to try and change the other person's mind. (I'm actually getting a little angry just writing about it here. I'm a highly intelligent person with excellent research and reasoning skills. When I say that I'm not convinced there's enough evidence that saturated fat is bad for you or that all people dx'd w/sz need to be on AP's for life - and there's some good evidence to the contrary, don't just write me off as a nut! I do understand your frustration, Kureha.)

One of the things I'm trying to get through to my son is that he can't control other people. He might as well relax and accept that sometimes people won't understand him. If he's going to make his peace of mind dependent on other people seeing and taking his point of view, he might as well accept that he'll have no peace of mind in this world.

I keep thinking about that saying that you should never try to teach a pig to sing because it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. I think at this point you're wasting your time and annoying the pig.

KUREHA · Jan 21, 2012, 09:11 AM

So you think I should give up and quit seeing them.
I'm not going to talk about this anymore, with anyone - except myself and the sleeper cells.
I only want people to believe me so I don't end up ****ing dead, but yeah what does it matter, maybe it would be better if I just **** off and die right.
That's what they eventually want - so why not make it easier for them, take them out and myself , then there are no consequences.

KUREHA · Jan 21, 2012, 09:30 AM

Sorry, it's just your last line really annoyed me.

costello · Jan 21, 2012, 10:08 AM

I sat down to meditate right after writing the above answer. You're annoyance must have touched my psyche, because my mind kept coming back to your question.

I thought of a more empathetic reply. I don't know if it will be any more helpful, but here goes:

I woke up from a nightmare this morning. In my dream my sister Susie was living here with my son and me. I was at home, but my son and Susie weren't. My sister Laura was visiting. Laura was in the living room talking on her phone. I went into Susie's bathroom to look for something. While I was standing at the doorway, the door moved slightly toward me. I thought maybe a draft of wind had moved it or something, but then I realized something or someone was on the other side of the door pushing it closed and pushing me out of the room. I peeked through the crack and saw that there was no one there.

I went to the living room to tell my sister Laura there was a ghost in the bathroom. She was still on the phone, and she gave me a skeptical look. I realized in that moment that no one would believe me, and I would be living with a hostile ghost in my house. That's the point when I woke up from the dream.

When I have nightmares I wake up at the scariest part. So it's interesting that I didn't wake up when I knew there was a ghost there. I woke up when it dawned on me I was going to be treated as a nut if I persisted in talking about it.

As I was meditating it struck me that this what you're living with. It must be really, really lonely to not be believed about this. I'm sorry my first reply wasn't empathetic enough. I still stand by the advice that you'll have to find a way to relax with the fact that most people aren't going to believe you. That doesn't mean you have to change your beliefs. Just accept that others won't believe.

KUREHA · Jan 21, 2012, 10:45 AM

Yeah it's pretty similar and yeah it is lonely.

It doesnt matter though, I just won't talk to anyone about it anymore, I'm just going to shut up.

Everyone tells me I'm wrong, I know I'm not, so there is no point talking about it. I might just quit with them and quit the meds because I'm wasting their time.

Don't need help, fine anyway, Ill do it alone.

costello · Jan 21, 2012, 11:17 AM

This thread seems to have touched a well of grief in me that I didn't know was there. I've been weeping for the last hour. I can't remember ever crying this hard in my whole life. Maybe my answers to Kureha are ones I need to ponder myself.

There's Kureha over there hoping there's something she can say or do that will get people to believe her. And here's me over here hoping there's something I can say or do to heal my son and let him be the man he would have been and have the life he would have had if this horrible illness hadn't hit. Suffering all around.

Sorry, Kureha, for upsetting you. I think on some level I've been talking to myself here. I hope you find the proof that changes minds. For me, I think I'm ready to lay down my hope and start working on turning my mind toward accepting reality.

KUREHA · Jan 21, 2012, 11:27 AM

It's cool - I'm sorry you're upset.

Once I got labelled its like everything thing I say or every idea I have is wrong or dangerous.
If they just seen it from my point of view like my nurse did - they'd understand.

costello · Jan 21, 2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUREHA

It's cool - I'm sorry you're upset.

Thank you.

Quote:

Once I got labelled its like everything thing I say or every idea I have is wrong or dangerous.
If they just seen it from my point of view like my nurse did - they'd understand.

I've seen that happen to my son too. It frustrates me. Yes, he gets a bit off track sometimes, but not everything he says or does is a symptom of his illness.

Shoe · Jan 21, 2012, 12:12 PM

This came in one of my emails from Rick Hanson ( Just One Thing ) I thought I would add it here this morning.

Are you stressed or upset?

The Practice

Leave the Red Zone.

Why?

There I was recently, standing in the shower, my mind darting in different directions about projects in process, frazzled about little tasks backing up, uneasy about a tax record from 2010 we couldn't find, feeling irritated about being irritable, hurrying to get to work, body keyed up, internal sense of pressure. Not freaked out, not running from an attacker, not suffering a grievous loss, my own troubles tiny in comparison to those of so many others - but still, the needle on my personal stress-o-meter was pegged in the Red Zone.

Then that quiet background knowing in all of us nudged me to cool down, dial back, de-frazzle, take a breath, exhale slowly, repeat, let the skin relax, start getting a sense of center, exhale again, slow the thoughts down, pick one thought of alrightness or goodness and stay with it, exhaling worry about the future, coming into this moment, water beating down, just sensations, calming, mind getting clearer, focusing on what I'll do this day and knowing that's all I can do, the body sense of settling down yet again sinking in to make it one bit easier to settle down the next time. Leaving the Red Zone, not all the way to Green, more like Yellow, but no longer even Orange. Whew.

I'm sure you have your own sense of this process. It's natural to move back and forth between Green and Red, which our ancestors evolved to survive and pass on their genes. Green is the resting state, the home base, of the brain and body, characterized by activation of the parasympathetic nervous system, repair and refueling of bodily systems, and a peaceful, happy, and loving mind. In Green, we are usually benevolent toward ourselves, others, and the world

Then we rev up into Red in order to avoid threats, pursue opportunities, or deal with relationship issues: the sympathetic (fight-or-flight) nervous system activates, stress hormones like cortisol course through the bloodstream, and (broadly defined) hatred, greed, and heartache course through the mind. In Red, we're primed for fear, possessiveness, and aggression. If you're upset - if you're anxious, frustrated, irritated, or feeling put down or inadequate - you're in Red or heading there quickly.

You may have read my characterizations of Green as the Responsive mode of the brain and Red as its Reactive mode. Both modes are natural and necessary.

But there are no innate costs to Green, only benefits, while the benefits of Red (e.g., speed, intensity) are offset by serious costs to well-being, health, and longevity. Mother Nature didn't care about the costs of Red when most of our primate, hominid, and human ancestors died young.

These days, though, it behooves us center in Green as much as we can - using Green approaches for threats and opportunities (see Just One Thing for examples) - and leave Red as soon as possible. This is the foundation of psychological healing, long-term health, everyday well-being, personal growth, spiritual practice, and a peaceful and widely prosperous world.

How?

In a busy life, each day gives you dozens of opportunities to leave the Red zone and move toward Green. Each time you do this, you gradually strengthen the neural substrates of Green, one synapse at a time.

In order to cope with urgent needs, the body can switch from Green to Red in a heartbeat. Then it takes a while to return to Green since stress hormones need time to metabolize out of your system. Even in Yellow and Orange, the effects and thus the costs of stress activation are present.

So as soon as you notice the needle of your stress-o-meter moving into Yellow and beyond, take action.

In your mind, intend to settle back down. Exhale slowly, twice as long as the inhalation: this helps light up the parasympathetic nervous system. Think of something, anything, that makes you feel safer, more fed and fulfilled, or more appreciated and cared about: focus on these good feelings, stay with them, sense them sinking in. Relax tension in your body as best you can. As you calm a bit, find your priority in whatever situation is stressing you and zero in on the key specific do-able action(s) that is/are needed. Take refuge in knowing that you can only do what you can, that you can only encourage the causes of good things but can't control the results themselves.

In the world, try to slow down and step back. Speak carefully. Buy yourself some time. Drink some water, get some food, go to the bathroom. Before acting, raise your level of functioning (i.e., move from Red toward Green), the center from which effective action flows. Try not to act from fear, anger, frustration, shame, or a bruised ego. Don't add logs to the fire. Over time, try to change the environmental (including relationship) conditions that

These approaches are not a panacea. They don't always work. It's like training a wild mustang to become a saddle horse: over and over again, you bring gentleness and firmness, you rein in fear and fire and encourage peaceful ease.

You woo nature and help yourself come home to Green.

KUREHA · Jan 21, 2012, 02:17 PM

That's all too much to take in.

The nurse was talking about breathing exercises though.

I have other things to keep my anxiety down though.

lynn P. · Jan 21, 2012, 02:51 PM

(((KUREHA))) - I'm sorry you're so frustrated. I understand you really believe in the sleeper cells and therefore frustrated when people don't agree. The illness you have sometimes makes these thoughts very real. Are you taking your medication? Even with simple things, we can't force anyone to believe something, if they don't want to. So far you haven't be harmed by what you think is after you and I hope it gets better for you. You can use all this energy you put into this, on something else.

KUREHA · Jan 22, 2012, 05:18 AM

There is a reason nothing has happened yet - but since I said I won't talk about it anymore - I won't mention it.

I'm taking my meds - but they aren't working.

I'm going to quit seeing the team as well - I'm not ill, was only seeing them for help to cope - but I won't waste their time any longer.
I hate when people think I'm attention seeking, they haven't said - but I can see some people here think that.

I'll do it alone.

mgran · Jan 22, 2012, 09:41 AM

I know you're not attention seeking Kureha.

KUREHA · Jan 22, 2012, 10:00 AM

Thanks

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