Ah, son of a gun!

It sounds to me like he needs a creative outlet. A musical instrument?

He plays the piano.

cool
Maybe he should be encouraged to express that anger at the piano?

Maybe.

May I ask if your son has been on other meds that were of any value?

He's tried Risperdal, Geodon, and Invega. The Risperdal was a disaster - didn't help with symptoms but knocked him out. The Geodon helped but gave him so much anxiety that he quit taking it as soon as he was out from under the thumb of the mental health people. The Invega he never took as prescribed.

Is he still going to work? Does he like it?
It's great that you care about your son so much, my moms the same way.

Thanks, SQLVR.

He is still going to work, and I think he still enjoys it. They had a staff meeting Friday evening. He told me almost all of the other staff are female. Just two other guys. I hope that doesn't make him want to quit. Actually I can see how this might be a good thing for him!

I do care a great deal about him. I'm so excited about how well he's been doing these last few days since he's gotten more relaxed at work. I really hope it keeps being a good thing for him.

He seems more subdued today. Didn't leave the house even though he needs groceries. I know I just worry too much. I need to relax a bit.

Its your job!

Yea, but I've learned over the years that I can waste a lot of energy worrying about things that never happen.

Plus when a person worries, it makes everyone around her tense. And the person closest to me is the one I want to have

I started reading this thread and became interested when you mentioned your son's job, VR, and Ticket to Work.

I work for a service provider that is just starting to offer supported employment. I see now that apparently he enjoys this job, but my first blush instinct was why would they place him in a job where no one seems to think he would succeed in. We want our consumers to succeed, thereby placing them in jobs in which they are interested in and motivated to do.

I am struck by how supportive you are as a mother. Keep advocating for him and I think he will excel in life!

I wasn't able to work for 5 years in my early 20s. It was a very difficult time for me. I had work expreience before treatment, so when I returned after the 5 years, I was successful. I think that my previous work expreience helped me succede. I've always found "work" profitable, not just for gaining money, but for my self esteem and physical and emotional health. I've never had a med or a therapy that could replace work. I do no think one will ever be created by doctors and research scientists. My ancestors worked hard to survive. Planting and tending crops and livestock. Healing or attemting to heal sickness. Birthing and raising children. Keeping themselves health, emotionally and physicly, also.

When I work, I connect with my ancestors, it seems to me. It helps me to survive in many, many ways. I am profoundly grateful for my capacity to work. I think work can help others also. I recomend it highly.

Yeah, actually I'm amazed he's doing so well and enjoying this job. They had him applying for anything. He said they had him get a list of local agencies that provide services to needy people in the community and just begin calling them and asking if they were hiring. That's how he found this job. Just a cold call to the agency.

There's a little lesson there, though, isn't there? Sometimes a job may work out despite all signs that it isn't the right one. He mentioned this weekend that he wants to be a good role model for the kids. He knows they're from disadvantaged backgrounds and often lack a male in the home. He's taking this quite seriously. He quit smoking about six months ago, but almost as soon as he started this job he started smoking his electronic cigarette again. He said he was worried that this would not be a positive role model. I told him not to let them see him using it. Since it doesn't make him smell like cigarettes, they'll never know.

I'm a bit worried, because he's showing some signs of paranoia. He dropped his medication dosage about four days ago. I hope it doesn't interfere with the job.

One good sign is that he's aware of his thinking. For example, yesterday he pointed out a comment that one of his facebook friends made on another friend's wall. Somehow he thought if had something to do with him, that it was some kind of racist comment aimed at my son. I couldn't see how it had to do with him at all. He seemed aware that his perception might be "off" and he asked me what I thought. Although he's not getting CBT, to me this is a CBT-like exercise - noticing that a thought may be due to paranoia then challenging it.

Thanks. I think he will too. I have a good deal of hope right now.

I agree. Edward Podvoll calls this a "history of sanity." He says that mentally ill people have a history of mental illness, but they also have a sanity in their past which they can call on to help them in their recovery.

One of the predictors of successful recovery from sz is later onset. They think this is because the patient has a history of relatively healthy adult life to look back on.

My son also has a successful work history. During his first episode he managed to find a job which he kept for over two years. He quit it during his second episode. But thank heaven he had that - both for financial and psychological reasons. His disability payment is higher because of it, and he can look back and think, "I've held a job before. Maybe I can do it again."

I agree. He's doing something useful, contributing to society, earning money, being in contact with other people, building self-esteem, being distracted from his thoughts (which are often unhealthy), etc., etc., etc. Even just filling his time and doing something that tires him out so he sleeps better.

A job was one of the first things his pdoc recommended to him when he first started seeing him last May. And Pat Deegan says you need to get back working as soon as possible, don't wait until you're "well" because the act of working is therapeutic and will help make you well.

Wow. I know there is pressure from VR to get people placed in jobs, but we still try to tailor our consumers' jobs to their interests. If they fail in a job, it helps no one; the consumer, the employer, VR, or the SE agency!

I'm so glad to hear that he's doing well. Being an MI individual myself working in the field of mental health, I take my job seriously.

I hope he doesn't lose that awareness due to the decrease in meds. I question if it was the right time for a decrease. I definitely see a correlation between what your son is doing and CBT. A main tenet of that therapeutic intervention is to learn how to identify cognitive distortions and challenge them.

I agree. I'm glad it seems to have worked out for my son this time.

I agree. Not a good time for a med reduction. We'll see how it goes.

It seems thing are going well for your son, Costello. I am glad for you. I hope you two can work with the psychiatrist about the meds. I took meds for a long time. I didn't enjoy it, but I am enjoying the results.

I'm really glad that your son has a job, and hope that he can balance his anxiety against his success. It's a scary time, but please God it will build his confidence, and help him in recovery.

From your mouth to God's ear.

My confidence is building, after a long time of desolation due to zero self esteem. God was merciful to me. I'm not sure I deserved it though.

Building self-confidence is hard. When you have low self-esteem, it's like everywhere you look, you see evidence that you're right to feel bad about yourself. You imagine people are thinking bad about you when they're probably not thinking about you at all. And you even subconsciously "mess up," so you can prove that you're dumb or clumsy or whatever negative idea you have about yourself.

It's hard.

I always tell my son it's not about deserving. We don't get what we deserve; we get what we get.

I think if you take care of yourself, if you treat yourself well, your self-esteem will rise. If you're like my son, you treat yourself badly, because you don't think you deserve better. I've noticed that when I treat myself well, I'm able to treat the people around me well. It helps me to remember that when I take care of myself, I'm taking care of my family and my friends too, because I'm going to be nicer to them if I'm not beating myself down. And when I'm nice to other people, they're happier, so they treat the other people they meet better - and on and on down the line like water rippling out in a circles.

Your very wise costello. I am lucky you respond to my posts. It is needed. gracias(sp)

Just a brief job update for those who are interested. Then some ponderings about how delusional thinking may start.

It's been 2 1/2 weeks and it seems to be going well. They're talking to him about summer hours. When schools out, the program lasts all day, so he could work full-time. He thinks the half-time afternoon hours are enough, and I agree.

He had a tiny interaction with a male coworker which upset him. When he first told me about it, I thought he was reading more into it than the coworker had intended. Then I remembered that guys do tend to get into pissing matches where they're trying to put the other guy down so they can be one up on him. As it turned out, the very next day the guy decided to take a month off, so hopefully he'll quit or be replaced. But these are exactly the kinds of situations my son's going to have to learn to navigate in the world - without wigging out or running away or getting into a fight. Right now his coping and social skills aren't up to dealing with another person who is actively putting him down in sly and subtle ways.

Then we have the tee shirt situation. He's required to wear the Boys and Girls Club staff shirt every day. They only gave him two. They say they have no more to give him, and they're not available for purchase. Well, one of them disappeared last week, and he only had one left. I was doing laundry every night so he'd have a clean shirt the next day.

He starts getting really stressed on Thursday evening because he can't find the other shirt. He starts thinking maybe he left it at work and someone swiped it. I asked him if he undresses at work. No. Well, then it's not at work. Next he thinks maybe my younger son stole it. Why would he do that?

It was weird to watch his mind working. I can see how a delusion might start. He's struggling to understand why something happened. He doesn't trust his own memory, so he makes up a scenario - "Maybe I left my shirt at work" - he throws in a real memory - "Kelly was reminding me about something as I was leaving the other day but I can't remember what" - he makes the memory about the shirt - "Maybe she was reminding me to take my shirt home but I didn't do it" - then he adds a malevolent "other" - "Someone swiped my shirt when I left it at work."

He went through this whole thought process in front of me, so I watched it come together. But he could have easily done it while he was alone. Then when I got home he would have told me a story something like this: "I think I took my shirt off at work and left it there. I think Kelly was reminding me to take it, but I just left without coming back to hear what she was saying. I think someone swiped it." The longer he holds on to these "memories" and thinks about them over and over, the more he believes them.

But to me this story has a dream-like quality. Undressing as work? And how do you not remember if you did or didn't? And why would you walk away as Kelly was talking to you? And why why why? It feels surreal, like a dream.

In the end we found his shirt with my shirts. Apparently I'd put it in with my things when I was emptying the dryer.

On a different topic but related to the mind going off in a weird direction: he was watching a basketball game last night. His team was by far the better of the two teams. But they were losing. So he gets "confused." (I mean he actually said, "I'm confused" - which is something he says a lot btw.) He says maybe his team doesn't want to win. That's the only reason he can think of that they wouldn't win this game. Then he says, "There's something going on here that I don't understand." I said, "They want to win, they're just not playing well. It happens. Even the best teams lose sometimes - sometimes to inferior teams."

I didn't pursue what he imagined was "going on." But it's almost like he had to invent some weird underlying reason for his team losing. Just like with the shirt, he might make up a story and convince himself it might be real. He might even make it about himself. He might decide his team lost because he didn't trim his beard that day or something like that.

I just don't get it.

I had a very real and dangerous delusion once, about 10 years ago. I couldn't understand why my wife loved me. It did not compute. I am poor. I am an addict. I have very few marketable skills. My socializing ability is near zero in most situations, unless I'm around familiar people. She is smart. She has had access to much more money than I in her life. Her family is more educated and wealthier than mine. I also have a diagnosed major mental illness. Why did she marry me?

I began to believe that she was a prostitute hired by the hospital so that I wouldn't get anyone pregnant because I am unfit to produce young. I also thought she was pretending to love me, just to keep a watch on me, less I become dangerous and leave treatment.

It was scary.

Meds and therapy got me closer to reality. I became safe again.

That might give you some info costello.

I sounds like something my son would think. I guess in an attempt to understand something you make up a story.

It reminds me of a story I told myself when I was about 10. I don't think I ever really believed it, but it was something I made up to explain the inexplicable.

People were always telling me I was pretty and smart. I didn't feel like I was either. So I wondered why they would say so. I figured they might want to flatter me if I had some sort of power, but I didn't see that I had any special power. I was really interested in ancient Egypt at the time, so I thought maybe I was an ancient Egyptian princess who was mummified and put in a tomb. Then an archeologist dug me up and unwrapped me and found I was still alive. I had no awareness that I was a princess, and no one wanted me to remember because then I would rule the world. So people flattered me to keep me from realizing my power and also because they were afraid of me.

As you can imagine this story fell apart pretty quickly when I looked at it more deeply. Why was I still alive over thousands of years? Why had I not grown older? Why wasn't I a rotting corpse? And so on.

Now I realize that people told me I was smart, because I was smart. They told me I was pretty, because that's what people say to little girls. (I've never been pretty.) At the time I just couldn't understand why people were lying to me.

The point is I wonder if other kids have similar fantasies, and if that tendency to make up stories to explain what seems inexplicable is a normal human tendency that just goes a bit haywire sometimes, leading to delusions.