[Wayfarer25]

I was doing some journaling this morning about my difficulties with determing what's real and what's not and wondered what some of you might think if you have a similar problem.

I have general difficulty telling what's real versus what's not real. It's not particularly distressing to me. I think I've simply come to terms with the fact that I can't tell the difference and that what I'm experiencing might be a complex hallucination/delusion. But when I do get stressed out and my symptoms worsen, my difficulty stresses me out even more and starts feeding the anxiety.

So I'm wondering if anyone else has trouble determining what's real and what's not. Are you able to eventually figure out if something is real or not and how do you do it? My previous T always says to "reality test" the situation, but when I'm stuck in the moment I find it impossible to do any kind of reality check.

Well, each person's definition and understanding of "Real" is certainly varied. You should read my piece entitled "Oh, the Humanity!" In this piece, your question is analyzed by many different perspectives and an ultimate outcome is reached through the looking glass of many collective eyes.

To me, my "hallucinations" (sorry if my quotations offend some, I do not intend to offend) are only understood as such to others who are not able to see the things that I see. I have found purpose and reason for these things that I have seen and do see every day.

I have only heard two Outside voices in my lifetime. However, I do struggle with many many intrusive thoughts each and every day of my life. This has been all of the days of my entire life, seventeen years before I was diagnosed by professionals with paranoid schizophrenia.

In my opinion, and many others' as well: for something, ANYTHING, to qualify as "Real"; it solely has to be REALIZED by a living breathing human being. That is where the root word "Real" is derived from in our English language.

My visions and intrusive thoughts, and yes, the two outside voices that my physical ears actually HEARD, were REAL. I really experienced these things. They were brought into my reality, by an outside force that is not by my own will.

For someone to insist, (rather, the whole world who does not experience the things that you and I do), That these things are not in fact REAL, is very cruel indeed. Cruel yes, and also IGNORANT.

Would a Starfish, who lives underneath the surface of the Ocean Deep, say "There is no such thing as an African Zebra, because I have never seen one?" Foolish. Wrong. I reject that narrow view. I hope others will also do the same.

Now, If a voice, or an intrusive thought, or a vision, is telling someone to harm himself or others, A CHOICE BY THE HEARER/SEER IS REQUIRED FOR THE FULFILLMENT OF THE HARM TO BE DONE.

Every single human being on planet earth has this choice to make daily; regardless of their experience with symptoms that we batte. It is called "DO NO HARM" by the Hippocratic oath that our medical physicians are bound by Federal Law upon graduation and entrance into medical practice here in The United States of America.

There exists a need to control the volatility of psychosis. The psychotic episode is very real indeed to the psychotic patient, nonetheless. Any lesser perspective which places defective language upon the sufferer is cruel and ignorant; in my humble opinion which I am only entitled to.

Instead of condemn the sufferer to an existence that has been deemed UNREAL by others, perhaps others could admit that they happen to have been blessed or cursed with an entirely different reality? That perspective seems merciful to me.

Shall we tell the handicapped children, "You don't have two Real arms because you are defective". Or, is it merely that we "Whole People" choose to label you as defective for our own peace of mind? The latter is closer to the truth. Sorry so long yall, I am kind of fed up today lol. Carry on.

[Wayfarer25]

i understand and agree what you're saying about reality basically being justified if it's experienced by one person. i was not clear about my description, so let me try to be more specific.

this is only an example among many, and this did indeed happen to me. i was on the 3rd floor of my nursing home building where i work. i was talking with the oncoming nurse when out of the corner of my eye, i saw something. i looked, and it was a little girl in a short dress who said hi to me. before i could think, i said, hi back. the nurse then asked me who i was talking to, and i played it off as no big deal because the split second the girl disappeared, I realized i was hallucinating.

yes, in that instant, the girl was real to me, but only to me. that doesn't necessarily make it so. a slew of other people never would've seen that girl. so what i mean by reality is the general consensus of what is real. if ten people see a garden, but 1 person sees a unicorn in the garden, chances are the other 9 people will accept the unicorn as a fantasy of a diseased or disordered mind (or maybe someone who's just overly creative).

this is what i meant when i mentioned reality. not a personal reality, but the general consensus of what is accepted as real.

thanks for your input though, i wholly understood what you meant, and believe that a personal reality should not be discounted or looked down upon. you're exactly right. a hallucination is real. a complex fantasy is real. albeit on a personal level. this is a good and interesting conversation.

i believe, however, i am more confused than when i started. you got me thinking now, which isn't altogether a bad thing.

Sorry and your welcome lol. When I encountered the question that you posed, I happened to be in the middle of a great and mighty legal battle that has been ongoing between myself and a communications company that has left me a little exhausted of patience and understanding in my output towards the things I encounter around me at this time.

This might have caused my demeanor to be viewed as a bit harsh. I assure you that my intentions are opposite in nature, although I did not have the patience to sugar-coat my point of view in this particular matter lol.

I believe I understand what your initial inquiry was meant to achieve at this time thanks to the clarification that you have generously provided. My answer will be provided thusly within the confines of the newly organized question before us today:

What is real for me today, and what is not experienced by others today? Today, others may not feel that life is serious. Others may be experiencing relief from the burden of their pasts. That does not make their realities unreal. I am merciful enough to them to accept that they cannot, possibly, understand another human being's reality. And they choose to remain in this reality, yes they do. DO they cry, when they see a dying child upon the path, orphaned and alone? Forsaken by humanity?

I can not tell. All I know is what is real for me. For me, I choose to cry with the forgotten babe. I choose to cover their nakedness with my very own cloth that covers the back that the Most High made for me. Is this real to others? Certainly not. Unfortunately.

They are limited by their own past experiences, and what they have managed to acquire within the limitations of the selfish worldly knowledge that they have accumulated throughout the days of the years of each of their lifetimes.

I understand this, because I AM understanding. If one does not afford another human being that same right, it is because of the LACK of understanding on their part. I refuse to be penalized by others for the things that they most certainly lack. And they are most certainly not penalized for the things that I most certainly lack

Worldly educational credentials, for instance. I lack those, indeed. I myself, attended first grade. I attended second grade, it is true. I attended sixth, seventh and eighth grade. I completed my General Education Diploma. I graduated and succeeded in completion of the above list. Myself.

This is a complete list of the years that I have spent in a public or private school system. I was not afforded the luxury of attendance at a public or private school, due to no fault of my own. I lack, perhaps in the eyes of another REAL person, the education that would qualify me for success in the eyes of the world at large.

Well: Young man, young woman; I do declare:

I reject your definition of success, wisdom, understanding, and achievement. I reject your outline for success as a human being entirely. Who are you? Did you create me? No. Who are you? Are you my Provider in any way? No. I have never been provided for by any of the idiots who choose to push these outright lies upon others, ultimately oppressing mankind as a whole. I have recognized this very truth. Will I reject truth? Far be it from me!

So, if I see an angel today, and someone else does not see it, it is most definitely real; but invisible to the one not seeing it. If today, I see a man with the dark green and black veins of the Spirit of Cancer, and I am inquired upon by him; He says, " My body hurts, I don't know why?"

I will say to that man whom Almighty God has created, "You have Cancer. You are dying. You need help." When he most certainly has all the Best trained Doctors at John's Hopkins Cancer Center to confirm what I first saw, and what I first reported to the ignorant man....does it mean that you are most certainly mistaken in your views about my "disability?" One can only speculate. And speculate I have.

Thank you for your thought provoking question! A genius you are in the midst of us! I am glad to know such a one, and be associated in this most small way, even for a moment beloved. Yours truly, Lightbulb7

[faerie_moon_x]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer25

I was doing some journaling this morning about my difficulties with determing what's real and what's not and wondered what some of you might think if you have a similar problem.

I have general difficulty telling what's real versus what's not real. It's not particularly distressing to me. I think I've simply come to terms with the fact that I can't tell the difference and that what I'm experiencing might be a complex hallucination/delusion. But when I do get stressed out and my symptoms worsen, my difficulty stresses me out even more and starts feeding the anxiety.

So I'm wondering if anyone else has trouble determining what's real and what's not. Are you able to eventually figure out if something is real or not and how do you do it? My previous T always says to "reality test" the situation, but when I'm stuck in the moment I find it impossible to do any kind of reality check.

I get paranoid thoughts, and hallucinations both auditory and visiaul, and it is difficult to reality check.

For example, when I was in the hospital (for physical reasons) it was taking a nurse or doctor a long time to come in and talk to me and my husband about what was going on. This kept happening. Now, I owe that hospital some money, because I had my baby there, and we're pretty low income so it is hard to pay back (I owe thousdands of dollars, hard to pay back...) Anyway, the "financial people" came in and made me sign a paper saying I knew I still owe on my balance. They came in twice!

So after the second time I look at my husband and I say, "You see, they are only waiting to treat me because I owe them money from the baby."

Now, my husband is very grounded and logical and down to earth. So he says, "No, they can't do that. This is public hospital and they can't not treat you because of money." Although I received excellent care after that, it took him almost the full two weeks I was admited to convince me I was being paranoid.

So, my reality checking is "check with someone else."

I will hear music and say, 'do you hear that?' If he says no, then i worry. Usually he says yes and gives me the teasing 'don't be paranoid' face.

Okay, I believe that I can now see what it is that you are explaining to us here beloved Dark_heart_x. The negativity of the feelings within all of our experiences regarding the dreaded paranoia. I am often very, very, "insanely" (if you will) paranoid as well just like you and many others here and there.

Because of the fact that I know that it is true that evil exists within the hearts of others. Why? I cannot control others, and I do not control others, rather, never have and never will. It is only my job to control lonely little me. No one else has been given under my authority, except me, who alloweth no evil to enter in and to process within the confines of her innermost chambers, and come out to ultimately harm others. Because of these facts, I can and will only, ultimately, choose to trust myself and God alone.

Therefore, the paranoia that accompanies the fact and the truth that others can and do choose to house evil within the confines of the innermost chambers of their own hearts and souls and mouths, this is what causes me paranoia also.

What to do? I used to drink alcohol, a little here a little there. I was never a drunkard. I only "tipped the teetole" here and there, although on a daily basis I did this. I do this to cope with paranoia no longer. For the last seven months and throughout my entire pregnancies (for nine months each for three full-term pregnancies) I carried my children each their allotted time within my womb, soberly.

It was a bit difficult mentally to not drink during this time. I was forced to learn through abstinence that the paranoia; while uncontrollable upon its arrival into my consciousness, was controllable by me. This has been proven and demonstrated to the outside world around my own self by my reactions to it that affected the world around me. Thusly, I have since learned that paranoia cannot keep me from living a full, productive, safe, and an even WONDERFUL Masterpiece of a life!

I truly hope that you and others who struggle with the reality of the feelings of paranoia and the inability and choice to not trust others with our lives etc. too can some day experience the freedom that I have now found exists in this realization beloved. I know your sufferings. I can literally feel your pain, just thinking about you and all of your lonely trials and all of the injustices that society and the world at large has dealt out to you during all of the days of the years of your lifetime beloved, grieves my heart and soul down to the core, it maketh me disgusted with the evil, yes it does. No amount of reality checking will ever contain the power to overcome this in my life, ever. God willing.

But I love who it is that you are beloved. I know that I am not the only one who does. It sounds like you have a wonderful husband and beautiful children who feel the same about a majestic creature such as yourself Beloved.

You are my sister, my neighbor, my companion, and I want you to know that we can beat this! Beloved, you are wonderful, brilliant, and worthy of happiness. Repeat this. A bazillion million times a google infinity times a day if necessary. I am praying for your deliverance and victory beloved. Yours truly, Lightbulb7

[Gr3tta]

This is a good question. I am curious to see what others say too.

Because I can also sometimes get caught up in questions of reality and perception, I have instead decided to define things as "real to me," "real to you," and "real to everyone," and leave it at that.

One sort of reality check you can do, is to ask yourself, "is this unusual?" But this is only useful some of the time. If you had never seen a llama trotting down the hall of the nursing home before, and you saw one today, you would probably recognize it as unusual, and pause before responding.
But in the case of entirely plausible situations, such as an ordinary looking person saying "hi" to you, it can be extremely difficult to tell. One thing I have done is to train myself to greet others with eye contact and a smile, rather than a verbal greeting, if it is the first time I am seeing them, or I have any question about their state of realness. It's much easier to shrug off, and it buys you a little time to see if, and how others react, which may help you gauge how you yourself respond.

I also think it's okay in most scenarios, to ask someone else, "did you hear/see/feel that?" If they say no, you can usually say it must have been that tv/headlight reflection/vent coming on, etc.

btw I also work in a nursing home. I enjoy it very much. Do you?

I see what you mean Gr3tta. I know instantly when I hear, see, feel, and smell the things that others do not hear, see, feel, and smell. I always know that they can not hear, see, feel and smell them. I have learned this through trial and error. Like, "Doesn't it smell like a beautiful meadow filled with fresh lillies in here guys?" And they all usually say, "No, it smells like feet here in this basement." Etc. So I have learned for myself to recognize the difference between my own reality and others'.

I have smelled the smell of Crack-Cocaine Burning like melted plastic in my church many times on Sunday morning. My church is called a "mega-church" by some people on t.v. because it has some thousands of members. It is not likely that someone would be brazen enough to smoke such an illegal drug in a place like this. This gives me the "clue" that others cannot smell this like I can. The beliefs are where the reality check is unhelpful for me. Beliefs are just that. You either believe it, or you don't.

[Wayfarer25]

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

Because I can also sometimes get caught up in questions of reality and perception, I have instead decided to define things as "real to me," "real to you," and "real to everyone," and leave it at that.

This is interesting, and I suppose it's a viewpoint I should take into account. I treat a paranoid schizophrenic (oddly enough considering my circumstances) who regularly hears voices. Only one time did I catch myself almost saying that his voices weren't real when he complained of them bothering him. I almost said it, but realized they were very much real to him. Both those three categories for reality are pretty decent and something worth taking to heart.

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

One sort of reality check you can do, is to ask yourself, "is this unusual?" But this is only useful some of the time.

I can only do this some of the time. If I am acutely psychotic or having a brief episode, it's impossible to make any distinction between what's real to me and real to everyone else. But other times I'm able to successfully bring myself down. I can say, "is there really a sniper in that tree aiming at me tonight? Not likely."

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

One thing I have done is to train myself to greet others with eye contact and a smile, rather than a verbal greeting, if it is the first time I am seeing them, or I have any question about their state of realness. It's much easier to shrug off, and it buys you a little time to see if, and how others react, which may help you gauge how you yourself respond.

I'm terrible at eye contact, but I see what you're getting at here. Some kind of nonverbal greeting or acknowledgement is something I should definitely try.

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

btw I also work in a nursing home. I enjoy it very much. Do you?

Not particularly. I mean, it's ok sometimes. It's rather boring (which can be a blessing on some days for sure). Some of the residents I like, but some of the other drive me up the wall. I often work as one nurse to 35 patients, and find the patient load to be a bit much when things get a bit crazy. I can't spend any time with any of them except during a medication pass which is rather pathetic. I actually was interviewed for a long-term structured residence facility that will house psych patients that I'm very excited about.

[LostMom3]

I know when some things are real or not. My voices are only real to me. I hear them, we carry on conversations/disagreements, so they are there, just not real people with the voices. I see what I call my creatures. It has already been established in the house that no one sees these creatures except myself. So, when I see one I know it is not really real, but it is real to me. They have a purpose according to my voices, but I move away from them always, don't want to interact with them. There are other other things that I have see or heard and I will ask boyfriend or one of our many kids if they saw it or heard it just to establish if it is real to everybody. Now my thoughts I keep to myself. I share to much info with the family as it is with the knowledge of my voices and creatures and the other times I see or hear things.

[ickydog2006]

TRIGGER*graphic mention of blood*

My reality checks.

First off, does the situation make sense. For me, blood dripping down off of tree leaves or
out of the wall was a common hallucination. Obviously, that situation doesn't make sense.
If it defy's "the laws of physics" is another practical application of this.

Secondly, is any one else around me reacting to it. If comfortable you can ask someone (ex. Do you hear that), or just pay attention to how others react. When I saw blood dripping down someones face (more logical than wall) if no one else was saying anything about it or showing any reaction to it, chances are I was the only one seeing it.

Thirdly, does it fit with other memories. Examples: If there has never been a random mirage like hole in my floor, chances are there isn't one now. If I've never owned a cat and all of a sudden I see one up on the shelf in my house, chances are... If everytime I see someone he is very nice and all of a sudden he's saying horrible things (and I haven't done anything bad) chances are...

Those help me some. The third, especially, helps me determine if my dreams actually happened or not.

I understand that some people believe that we can just sense things that most others cannot, but obviously, this is not meant for that.

[brackenbeard]

i get a sneaking suspicion when journaling if something is not true to my experience. you got to learn to recognize that doubt. sometimes it doesn't matter and I go ahead with my logic thinking i've got it right. it's important to talk things over with people, and if it's still confusing step back from the whole situation.

[WikidPissah]

My H. He is my reality check, thankfully. He can tell by now (we've been together 30 yrs) when I am "off". I also have learned to ask.
"Did you see that?"
"Did you hear that?"

Even my adult children will at times say, "No worries mom, I heard that too".

I have found it crucial to make a list of people I trust and carry it with me. It's a very short list, but it reminds me the H tells the truth and would never let harm come to me.

[keepingalice]

I would have to say it is real to me, has meaning for me, and just because someone cannot grasp it makes it no less impactful. I cannot understand pyschics but people tell me it is real and I trust them. I hate math but my son is a genius and we argue back and forth constantly...We both had "imaginary" friends growing up, yet that experience was real to both of us. We do not fully understand the human mind and may never.