History

I just read this article...

Each Family May Have Schizophrenia In Its Own Way : Shots - Health News : NPR

I'm wondering for those who have family who is also sick if the symptoms are the same. My grandma used to hear voices when she went to the grocery store. Unfortunately she passed a long time ago so I cannot ask for more details but I think she was high functioning becuase she never even saw a psychiatrist and most of the family never knew she was sick.

This was interesting as I am of a scientific mind. There is a lot of MI in my family going back as far as the 1850's that I can trace. Everything from depression to what probably would have been called bi- polar to schizophrenia. Great aunts in state hospital in 1920's. Aunt diagnosed in 1960's as schizophrenic. Further back in time there was just what was called "nervous" or melancholy.

I know my schiz aunt had a lot of visuals, I'm not sure about delusions or voices. She isolated a lot and had suicidal ideation.

My illness manifested not as severely. Not sure that I have ever had a typical hallucination.... just my name being called a couple times, and objects in my peripheral vision.

I isolate and get paranoid and suspicious, at times. I guess I have been delusional at times in that I was convinced my b.f. was unfaithful.---but nothing more than that.

So for me I see similarities in that there's a lot of mental illness in my family history but our symptoms differ.

Studies and science interest me very much, I just wish it was exact and definitive when it comes to psychiatry.

Did a person even really describe what they were experiencing 100 yrs. ago if they were psychotic? Did Dr's even know what questions to ask?

Thanks for the article Sometimes! It was very interesting.

My pdoc said at my last appointment that we know lots of genes are implicated in mental illness, but large studies can't show that a specific gene causes a specific illness, so this is very interesting. If you look at genes for specific symptoms, then that cuts out any error rate for the diagnosis. What I mean is we construct the diagnosis of sz in a particular way using the DSM, but there is huge variability with symptoms and prognosis, which leads to some concluding that sz is too heterogenous to be one disorder. Plus what label should I have - should I be bipolar with psychotic features or schizoaffective? Well it depends on how we agree to construct those labels, but if we can say that this gene causes auditory hallucinations and we can discover a way to treat it...well I must admit that gene therapy has always made me nervous because we don't fully understand what changing one gene will do to the whole...but it's a very interesting topic!

I come from a very large extended family and no one, except me, has bipolar or sz symptoms. All we have is some depression, SAD & ADHD.

*Willow*

That's really interesting. I'll have to read it when I have more focus. Not long ago there was another study that showed schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, autism, and ADD all have the same genetic link but people experience them differently. I'm interested to see the follow up research on that.

My dad's first cousin has schizophrenia. He's the only one in the family. I don't know who has what else, but my dad was recently diagnosed with depression. I don't know my cousin very well and he's a lot older than me. He's in his 60s now. All I know is the schizophrenia made him very angry and violent until he was medicated. He was not able to hold a job because of it, so him and my uncle used to do odd jobs. My uncle passed away about 2-3 years ago and my cousin isn't doing so well any more.

In my dad's family the whole thing is to just "suck it up" and not talk about anything, so I have no idea of anyone else's mental health.

Based on genetic work that came out this year there is some evidence that bipolar, schizoaffective and schizophrenia are all part of a spectrum so I don't put too much stock in the labels that separate them. Hanging out on the bipolar forum here a lot of people have had psychosis and a lot of it is bad not just fluffy happy stuff. I know I have sleep disturbances and hypomania but my pdoc just says I'm psychotic not SA. Anyway I try not to worry about the DSM, or even what my pdoc labels it as, its all the same medicine anyway.

I feel that if I'd had treatment during the 5 year delusion I'd had, then I would have been labeled schizoaffective or even schizophrenic instead of bipolar. But, when I told my psychologist about it, it was already 3 years since it had ended. So, they couldn't do anything about it then. So they said "possible psychosis." Then I only had treatment for about 3 months and had to stop due to insurance, so even though since then I've been having problems what can I do?

Oh well. It doesn't matter really. I agree it is a spectrum. I think most things are actually a spectrum.

I've been thinking for a while that these labels are rubbish, dependent on the meanings we give them. I see both mood and psychotic symptoms on a spectrum (like a graph with mood symptoms on the y axis and psychotic symptoms on the x axis in the middle) and that it's very hard to put each plot in a certain box. Psychiatry is seriously limited and all they have in their arsenal is medication, that doesn't help me and others, or has unbearable side effects. The major limitations of psychiatry are what made me leave medicine and switch to psychology. I see why psychiatry needs these boxes in order to ascertain prognosis and treatments for each box, but you're pretty screwed if you don't fit neatly in one or the other.

I'm actually pretty hopeless right now. All I have is a pdoc and medications that don't work. There is no therapy, and the psychoeducation project they've spent the therapy money on is a joke!! I have a pdoc appt tomorrow, but all I can think is 'what is the point?'

*Willow*

good points.
there are huge limitations. especially when you need lots of help.
you made good points on medicine. doesnt help a lot of people. especially if you have to switch to different ones. mine has unbearable side effects but i have tried all of them except clozaril. for me they all either dont work or the side effects were bad.

man...
all i have is pdoc too.
im aware of things like therapy and group therapy but for 1: im not quite sure if that stuff would be good for me. not sure if i qualify and what for since psychosis is a big issue for me. and most therapists dont deal with that.

I didn't know therpists don't deal with psychosis. That seems weird. I think having someone who can help you reality check is a big help. So.... you'd think a therpaist who specializes in that would be a good thing.

most either dont feel equipped or dont want to deal with it because its a big issue to deal with. i notice so many therapists that blog do everything short of schizophrenia/psychosis. they may talk about depression and anxiety even bipolar but it stops with a few more.

ive been referred out many times OR either told they could not help me. many many times. sometimes even on the phone before i met them.

most dont specialize in it either. especailly ones with masters degree. youd have to find a phD or something. and even then they may not.

I've run into this problem too. Most therapists don't seem to deal with psychosis. I have a therapist now but we're working on other stuff, I don't know if he would help me with the psychosis stuff or even be able to(haven't been too open about it as of yet). One therapist I had point blank refused to talk to me about it, she said if I talked about it I was "enabling my disease"... ****ing idiot.

thats sad.
i am pretty desperate to talk about my voices and my fears.

Most Ts buy into the idea that bipolar and sz are biological disorders that require medication for life, so won't touch them with a barge pole in my experience.

*Willow*

Yeah me too

*Willow*

Well they are biological disorders to some extent. But that's not the whole picture by any means, and "treating" it as you would treat a physical illness without paying heed to the emotions and psychological pain that go along with it is just... stupid...

What exactly is psychoeducation anyway? I mean I know it's learning about the disease but what do they do like endless powerpoints or something? I mean they don't even know the mechanism yet....do they just talk about the meds?

im aware.
how sad.

I completely agree!

Well I've only been to 2 courses so far, and I'm pretty well informed already having studied psychiatry and now studying psychology, which may colour my views... The sz/psychosis talk was run by an ex-community psych nurse and a 'lived experience' woman with bipolar disorder with psychosis. We started off filling a large piece of paper with our understanding of what psychosis is, which took a while. Then we had a break, before the PowerPoint slides, which covered definitions and statistics. Treatment wasn't covered, neither was coping skills - apparently I have to do the next psychosis course that is 4 sessions over 4 weeks. Out of the 16 people signed up for the course, 6 turned up which is hugely inefficient. I learnt nothing new and basically wasted 2 1/2 hours of my life. Then we had to fill in reams of feedback forms so they can justify their existence to the NHS.

Then I did a 3 day course about the Wellness Recovery Action Plan run by the charity Rethink. Again I thought I would learn coping skills for crisis...nope. Only 4 turned up for this course and 1 only came for the first session. Basically it involved listing early warning signs of approaching badness and listing things we already do that helps. Nothing new learnt. Also the guy, who has 'lived experience' of bipolar, couldn't answer my questions as to what constitutes a crisis (because whenever I feel I am doing really badly and reach out for help, healthcare professionals are distinctly underwhelmed, so I wanted to know what I'm doing 'wrong') because it's a 'personal definition' blah blah blah. And the plan, and also the psychosis course, seem to see MH problems as completely episodic - we are well, we get ill, we get better...but what about the people who have chronic problems? I've been ill 6 years now, hearing voices etc for 4 years. At times the psychotic stuff is the worst bit, at other times the depression is the worst bit, RARELY the hypomania hits and I feel great for a few days before I'm tipped into a living hell of irritability and agitation. Never in 6 years have I been 'well', so what about me?! Where do I fit in their neat little models?!

I'm sorry, I'm a bit mad typing all of that. The thought that I can't have the therapy I need because they're wasting money on this stupid programme that does not help the well informed consumer and pushes the medication/psychiatric party line just makes me mad The head honcho of the NHS MH services here has bipolar disease and it is his philosophy that drives this psychoeducation programme. I'm all about education, knowledge is power, but I bet he could afford private therapy when he was ill, or maybe that's my cynicism...

*Willow*

Sometimes: What is interesting to me about science and studies, is that the theories are always changing and the conclusions are always changing. Also if you go back over these studies, there are sooooo many contradictions. I have been doing my own research on MI and it's interesting to go back to the science of the 50's through today. There is a lot of back and forth regarding illness, where it comes from, how to treat it, etc.

Today I went to PBS.org and read an article about the famous " Beautiful Mind" story. That story is over 10 years old. What hasn't changed is the meds. If anything, there is still a huge push to medicate. medicate. medicate. The pharmaceutical companies have not come up with anything new in 10 years for MI, yet they crank out plenty of pills for libido and erections like there's no tomorrow! Some studies show that years of medication can actually cause more harm than good.

And what about those of us who choose not to do meds.? Why isn't there more alternative therapy? Why is it that typical counselors don't deal with psychosis? It would be wonderful if we could sit with a safe person when we need to talk, rather than be referred to someone who prescribes pills.

Anyway I am off topic here.. Sorry

John Nash ( the real "Beautiful Mind" person") talks about his son who is Schizophrenic as well. Go to PBS.org to see the interview. (That is what the topic was here on this thread)-- family history and similar symptoms....Nash's son however, has visuals while Nash has not. Nash is and has been in remission for years while his son remained quite ill. By the way, John Nash recovered w/out meds. He spent plenty of time hospitalized and medicated, but decided to not do meds long term.

This site on PBS also gave a cool history of mental health treatment from a time line. Greek times to 1990's.

Thanks for this topic

most of the way things go is they dont condone alt therapy for a sz patient. yet they do for bipolar more so. the patient could refuse meds and do all therapy for bipolar if they truly wanted to. sz extremely unlikely.

typical counselors dont because they dont have the extensive training and its a big issue. i think cuz most people dont have that as a big issue so they arent experienced. IDKIDKKKKKIDKK.

Nashs son and him and nashs wife is on youtube.

So you're right everything is changing both on the medication front and on the therapy front. There is work by harrow et al. that suggests long term that people do better even if they go off the meds AMA. But what I really wanted to tell you about was my therapist for cbt. She was involved in several studies mine, ongoing is about the effects of therapy vs psychoeducation for medication compliance which is pretty boring if the meds don't work for you but she also did two other studies, one was about people who go off the meds, are they helped by cbt? Then the other is people at high risk for psychosis/sz, teenagers with a family history or early symptoms. So they get cbt before even getting sick to see if they can even stop the illness from coming. Wouldnt that have been great to never get sick at all because you had therapy first. So therapy is changing but we need more people trained at least here in the states but in twenty years I think therapy will be standard care.

its kinda off the comments on their because people say his son is faking movements and lying about hallucinations. i dont understand why people are saying that.

Thanks for the link!

yea its interesting


everyone should look at it btw ^^^

NEWTUS; thanks so much for the link!

I don't get it either. What I do realize is that DENIAL is strong.....Clinicians don't want to believe... family doesn't want to believe.... (generally speaking about some of us who have been treated like we are faking or like we really are not sick)

My mom's sis was institutionalized in the 1960's for Schiz., My mom refuses to accept the dx. She would rather think that it was a "cop-out" that my aunt was ill. She and many believe that Schiz. and psychosis are always static.-- that the psychotic features stay constant. My aunt went into almost full remission, so my mom thinks that she never was sick because in my mom's opinion you don't just come back to reality after being psychotic...
My mom of course does not think I am ill either.... the thing is you can't make this crap up!

Oh and those tic's are soooooooooo real and the cigarettes and the pacing. How can anyone say that is fake? Check out his freaky muck boots! KOOL! It made me want to go get my boots on and have a smoke!!!!!!!!