Help a Mom out?

It is very important to take him off everything, I strongly believe his ADHD medications are exacerbating his schizophrenia. However, even if his voices dissipate after stopping the ADHD medication, I'd still insist that he has, or at least will develop, schizophrenia. You initially put him on ADHD medications because you thought he had that disorder, those original symptoms are not going to magically go away.

In children, symptoms of schizophrenia can often be mistaken for ADHD. For instance, impulsivity and inattentiveness are often core presentations seen in schizophrenia. In particular, tangential conversations and an inability to function in school could be interpreted as both impulsivity and inattentiveness in ADHD. However, in schizophrenia these symptoms would be seen as part of disorganized speech and thoughts. Here is a video I want you to watch, believe it or not but this is a typical case of schizophrenia, and I'm betting you'll see a lot of these symptoms in your son:

hi. i have command hallucinations and i deal with them by telling myself that they cant hurt me or getting someone else to reassure me that they cant hurt me. they tell me to do all kinds of things some more benign than others so i do the small things or half of what they say to do. for example the other night i took 2 ibuprofin when they said to take 40 . i took ibuprofin but i did not take 40 and it seemed to work. for a while. i would try to talk to ur son about the voices if he is interested in talking about them. i think the one thing he needs to the most right now is ur support.

I fully agree. I used to be anti meds. Even tylenol. Until my youngest daughter was born....she was never quite normal.by age 7 I was begging and crying for help. ADHD they said. Not one of the many meds for this worked properly. Therapy and counseling let her slip through the cracks. At 13 she was hospitalized for the first time. The Doctor called me from the hospital and asked how is it that she has never been hospitalized before???? I was told I have a very sick child. She stayed 30 days. I am so thankful that I had her hospitalized when I did. She came home feeling good. The first time in her life. Of course she has been in and out since but so far good experiances. She is not an adult yet. Kid stuff is done in hospital so even though she misses home, they keep her busy while adjusting or changing meds. I believe they saved her life and I am very grateful. For the first time in her life, she sleeps through the night. Taking this drastic measure is what got her the help she needed. We were done playing games with pdoc andT's. ADHD meds make everything worse for a person or child with schizophrenia or schizoeffecteve disorder.
This is just our experience.

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I'm quite concerned that you're making such a definitive diagnosis for a complete stranger over the internet! I don't want to start an argument because I'm sure you mean well, but you can't possibly know for certain what is going on with the OP's son. By all means offer support and advice, but none of us here can diagnose complete strangers based on a few posts on the internet.

pink&grey I hope that you can get your son the support he needs. You've gotten some good advice about withdrawing the ADHD stimulants with a doc's supervision and about trying to set boundaries for the voices and about being there for your son as much as you can, so I don't really have anything to add to that. I just want to wish you and your son the best

*Willow*

Her son's doctor has already made the diagnosis, and in fact he has already prescribed risperidone. I understand statistics and genes, I have no doubts in my mind about the child's diagnoses...

• Mother had gestational diabetes.[1] (Schizophrenic offspring risk ratio of 7)
• Child was a winter birth.[2] (Schizophrenic offspring risk ratio of 7)
• Mother has bipolar.[3] (Schizophrenic offspring risk ratio of 6.42)
• Child was diagnosed by a psychiatrist with schizophrenia.
• The child has symptoms of disorganized schizophrenia.
• The child hears voices.

Do I need to continue? Unfortunately, just calculating the statistics the little guy has a risk ratio of 20! I don't want to be here telling this lady that her son has a very serious mental illness, but unfortunately I see little room for anything else.

Furthermore, It's not as if I sought this lady out, she is the one who came to a schizophrenia forum, asking for help with her son who is currently displaying multiple symptoms of schizophrenia. The safe assumption is to presume he has schizophrenia, and I'm trying to be as black and white as I can about it. I know the sooner she resolves to get him the right care, the better off they will be. If she tackles this now he could actually have a chance at a normal life, so I see no sense in beating around the bush with her. If you read back, part of the advice I gave her was to consult a childhood schizophrenia expert to confirm the diagnosis. So where is the misfeasance?

What would you say he has, and more importantly would you care to put a wager on it?

[1]: Diabetes mellitus during pregnancy and increased risk of schizophrenia in offspring: a review of the evidence and putative mechanisms
[2]: Predictors of schizophrenia?a review
[3]: Risk of Mental Illness in Offspring of Parents With Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, and Major Depressive Disorder: A Meta-Analysis of Family High-Risk Studies

Thanks all. Just to clarify, the pDoc has not told us of a diagnosis of schizophrenia. All that means is he didn't say it to us. With my son in the room, I'm not sure he would say it yet. His reasoning for risperdone was that it was a tested drug for mood disorders in children.

I dd not see my son in the video. He socializes very well when not in school and has no problem building relationships. He's somewhat of a leader with his peers, and adults whom are not his teachers adore him. He is very distractable, but not at the level the video portrays.

A question: maybe I should start a new thread and/or go through the archives. How can I take him off meds without him having severe difficulties, likely leading to expulsion from his private school? We won't go back to public. They were never able to handle him.

ive had voices for about 3 years now and ive reverse engineered myself. Its an artificial energy that uses access through dream state and imagination areas of the brain to access the audio cortex. I have found ways to quiet them or completely silence them for myself. But it is a process a child might not want to do as this energy is vibrational and uses internal pressure. One day my head popped like i had been in a submarine and felt ocean pressure in my head. Also i get what seems to be organised pain attacks when i focus, the process is as follows.

Disconnect using imagination and intention aimed internally using visuals from images of nerves, bone, implant technologies and psychotronic energies.
One must learn how to clear and de-program using ones own mind, going from the point of first hearing the voices, which room were you in? Then using a combination of latex paints, RF blockers, charcoal mesh screen, and a host of other non-reflecting-soft rubbery materials and putting sage plants against walls. One must find a combination of personal clearing techniques and external blocking to quiet or eliminate the voices. the voices are malicious bastards but they are in essence stupid when they disconnect from us. Yet there seems to be in myself a system that finds ways to connect them back in my sleep. Good luck, sorry a kid so young has to suffer these bastards.

You're going to have to talk to the pdoc about tapering....it's different for every drug and different if you at having adverse effects like voices etc that require immediate attention. It took me like 6 months to safely get off abilify..we cut it by 2.5 mg every 6 weeks there is something called supersensitivity psychosis where you can get psychosis from AP withdrawal...this can happen even after being on the drug a couple of weeks. Basically being on the drug causes a major increase in d2 receptors...while the dopamine hypothesis of sz is no longer in favor it has been shown that dopamine stimulation can cause psychosis. So if there are more d2 receptors it's easier to trigger this pathway with more voices s the result... The problem is that ADHD meds are stimulants like amphetamines and amphetamines stimulate dopamine and can cause psychosis on their own. So if it were me I would get him off the ADHD meds first so you're not making it even harder to get off APs. Second you have to wait until the voices go away to get him off the AP(you can switch APs though if this one is not working).

I'm not sure how they treat drug induced psychosis but for any normal episode you have to be voice free for 6 months before you even start tapering the AP.....so this process is very slow and might take like a year...they never tell you this when you start these drugs...it's possible that your son is on a low dose of risperidone so it might not be as bad but yeah the pdocs are trained to get you on drugs....good luck finding any professional guidelines for getting off. I was once asked about street drugs during a study and I made a joke of how my pdoc was my only dealer....I never realized how true that was until I tried to get off legal drugs...

i was on adderall and experienced one of the worst psychotic episodes of my life where i had amnesia and basically forgot everyone. i knew they were like strangers to me. it was terrifying and lasted for a whole week. when they took me off the adderall it helped and i improved quickly. ADHD meds increase the neurotransmitter dopamine in your brain. psychosis is caused by an influx of dopamine. It's like hitting the gas when ur already swerving.

Risperidone is only approved by the FDA for four indications:

• Adult Schizophrenia.
• Childhood Schizophrenia.
• Bipolar Mania.
• Irritability Associated with Autistic Disorder.

Your doctor would not give you a off label medication as a first line treatment, that would be unethical. So your doctor has concluded that your son has one of the following indications listed above. A diagnosis of schizophrenia can be very scary, I think he was trying to soften the blow, and test his theory before breaking the bad news. I emphatically recommend that you still consult with a childhood schizophrenia expert. They will be able to do a what is called a differential diagnosis on your son's psychosis. With some luck it will just be psychosis related to bipolar mania.

As a child with a disability, your child is protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act, and Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. You're only duty is to inform the school of his special needs and provide them with medical documentation. They can't expel him due to their lack of accommodating his special needs. Work with your school counselor to develop an individualized education plan (IEP).

You can do whatever you want with the ADHD medications, including stoping them today if you want. However, I would not alter the risperidone until you get in to see a specialist. You may want to consider adding the supplement N-Acetyl-Cysteine. It's an antioxidant that helps the body make glutathione. I can explain more about it if you want, but It suffices to say that I think it could be worth trying.

There are several types of psychosis that are not schizophrenia...they use risperidone for all of them...example...I was on risperidone and I only had a psychotic disorder becuase it did not last the full 6 months needed for sz. The difference between psychosis and sz is like saying I have a headche but it will go away vs I have a recurring headache...you still use Tylenol to treat both but one lasts longer than the other...

I know we're all speculating about diagnosis here but I will mention briefly that psych central does not allow anyone here to make a diagnosis it's part of the terms and conditions...thus I would tone down your statements because they sound too much like its a fact and you are quite sure...even if you had an MD you are not allowed to make a diagnosis here. This forum is for peer support...

I've got better things to do with my life than argue with people. I'm done, do whatever the **** you want.

P&G I will say that being on risperidone while withdrawing the ADHD meds will make it unclear if the voices improve. It will be impossible to tell if the ADHD meds were causing the voices or if they improved because of the risperidone. Which means you won't know if the risperidone is even necessary to continue, and it's best not to be on an antipsychotic unless absolutely necessary. In an ideal world, the stimulant would be withdrawn first to see what effect, if any, this has on the voices. Then if necessary try the antipsychotic. But docs don't really think these things through, they're too quick to add more meds to counteract side effects.

*Willow*