[Smartteaser192]

I have an interesting question: how would you differentiate a paranormal apparition from a visual hallucination?

[Sometimes psychotic]

I'm not sure that you can if apparitions look as real as real life. It's hard enough to tell a visual hallucination from real life.

[yellowfrog268]

Good question.

I watch a lot of shows dealing with the paranormal including ghostly apparitions. I've actually seen a show where a psychiatrists proposed that many ghost sightings are little more than a hallucination brought on by the person's belief system, fear, and desire to see physical evidence of a ghostly presence. Now of course this leaves a lot of room for argument such as how do you explain the legit photos that have been captured of ghostly apparitions but it does offer food for thought.

[The_little_didgee]

I have never seen a ghost, but felt the presence of one. The encounter felt identical to the energy people radiate. I was also able to hear the person's voice and smell them. This has only happened twice, and shortly after two people close to me passed on.

Apparently, if the temporal regions of the brain are "stimulated" a person will sense the presence of an apparition.

[mimi2112]

I recently took a picture of my boyfriend. He'd fallen asleep on the bed. My small dog was also asleep there. The picture was taken from my camera phone. When we looked at it together later, there was another person in the picture. Ron actually asked me how I got in the picture. He said the profile of the face resembles me, and I suppose it does in a way. To me the person looks like a 10 year old boy. I took the picture from across the room. There were no mirrors or any objects that would have reflected an image onto the picture. We recreated the scene and there was no way that the person was an illusion from blankets and pillows distorted into an "image". The angle of the figure was positioned in such a way that it was propped up on it's elbows facing me while I took the picture.

I later looked at the picture with another person. She said she saw the small boy too. I didn't give her any clues about what to look for in the picture.

This was not a hallucination or mass hysteria. I'm pretty sure it was a spirit who had an opportunity to present himself, for whatever reason.
This was a solid form, not some transparent ghostly shaped apparition.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Apparently, if the temporal regions of the brain are "stimulated" a person will sense the presence of an apparition.

this reminds me of the God helmet

The "God Helmet" refers to an experimental apparatus originally called the "Koren helmet" after its inventor Stanley Koren. It was developed by Koren and neuroscientist Michael Persinger to study creativity and the effects of subtle stimulation of the temporal lobes.[1] Reports by participants of a "sensed presence" while wearing the God helmet brought public attention and resulted in several TV documentaries.[2] The device has been used in Persinger's research in the field of neurotheology, the study of the neural correlates of religion and spirituality. The apparatus, placed on the head of an experimental subject, generates very weak fluctuating magnetic fields, that Persinger refers to as "complex." These fields are approximately as strong as those generated by a land line telephone handset or an ordinary hair dryer, but far weaker than that of an ordinary refrigerator magnet and approximately a million times weaker than transcranial magnetic stimulation.[3]

[don964964]

new here so bare with me...
schizophanicman
I see dead people well not dead but in other dimension is how I would put it.
not all the time and not in the same way... some times its just a flash of - is something there . other times its flat out there are people there . and other times they are just what I would call misty figures. I have seen this all my life as long as I can remember. here is a example of what I have seen "and seen by other people" ok
we were sitting in the desert in the shade having a beer and talking . I looked forward to the right a bit and watched , then said to my partner where did those kids come from ? "mind you there was not anyone within 50 miles or more" she said OMG they look like they have been wandering for days. we both got up to help them and when we stood they vanished. I asked her what did you see she said a girl about 10 with a little boy and a boy or girl about 6 .. well that's exactly what I saw.... so just one example of what I have seen all my life.. so what is a apparition or a psychotic illusion? IDK cause I see them all the time ! on another thread I see there asking about voices and smells and etc. well I could go on and on an on .. but even hangin with timothy leary I never hallucinated anything like what I have always seen ..........

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by mimi2112

I recently took a picture of my boyfriend. He'd fallen asleep on the bed. My small dog was also asleep there. The picture was taken from my camera phone. When we looked at it together later, there was another person in the picture. Ron actually asked me how I got in the picture. He said the profile of the face resembles me, and I suppose it does in a way. To me the person looks like a 10 year old boy. I took the picture from across the room. There were no mirrors or any objects that would have reflected an image onto the picture. We recreated the scene and there was no way that the person was an illusion from blankets and pillows distorted into an "image". The angle of the figure was positioned in such a way that it was propped up on it's elbows facing me while I took the picture.

I later looked at the picture with another person. She said she saw the small boy too. I didn't give her any clues about what to look for in the picture.

This was not a hallucination or mass hysteria. I'm pretty sure it was a spirit who had an opportunity to present himself, for whatever reason.
This was a solid form, not some transparent ghostly shaped apparition.

Wow. Your story makes me wonder about the composition of ghosts. If pixels in a camera can detect them, they must be made of 'something' that is capable of absorbing and emitting light.

My supernatural experiences were a lot different from the two psychoses I went through. It is difficult to explain. Agitation, confusion and delusions were not present during my encounters. I know what I sensed; it was very different from a hallucination, even though those can be very convincing.

[newtus]

excellent observation didgee...
our eyes absorb light right?
hm

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by newtus

our eyes absorb light right?
hm

Yes. There are light sensitive cells in the retina that convert different wavelengths of light into nerve impulses. The optic nerves convey these impulses to the occipital region in the brain, where they are interpreted.

If no one saw the ghost at the time the photo was taken, it means the flash on the camera 'excited' the electrons in the molecules the ghost was composed of.

Perhaps, I am thinking way too much.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

I am thinking way too much.

PLEASE keep doing this.
dont let anyone ever tell you you think too much about anything.
we NEED people in this society that THINK.
we NEED THINKERS.

[gismo]

I'am not schizophrenic or psychotic, but i see spirits and ghosts all the time.

[mimi2112]

Little Didgee, there was no flash when I took the picture.

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone here, but I think that spirits are a form of energy and they can make themselves known by using an opportunity that presents itself. I think that a lot of spirits try to communicate to some of us more sensitive people. Some spirits are more successful at just making their presence known, like a little signal saying "here I am". I believe they use electricity and light, a lot of times to communicate.

So that figure that appeared in my picture was kind of just saying "hey". I didn't have a scared feeling about it. It wasn't like the figure was trying to warn us of something or send some cryptic message. He just used the opportunity to say hello. Does that make sense?
I also have at times seen the clock numbers repeat patterns; it is no coincidence. There will be times when the clock will say 3:33 or 4:44, etc. almost every time I look at it. I read somewhere that this is another form of spirits making themselves known. When the clock numbers repeat, there doesn't seem to be any reason for it other than perhaps a signal of hello. Believe me, I have read and researched about this repeating numbers phenomena, and it is not my brain looking for a pattern or turning a happenstance into a spiritual connection. I know it sounds crazy, but I don't care . This number thing has only been happening for less than a year, and I wonder if it's someone in my life who has died, trying to signal me, IDK.

According to popular psychics like John Edwards, spirits aren't always capable of sending a really clear and concise message to us. Sometimes they only are able to play with the digital clocks or reveal themselves in pictures.

[mimi2112]

Originally Posted by don964964

new here so bare with me...
schizophanicman
I see dead people well not dead but in other dimension is how I would put it.
not all the time and not in the same way... some times its just a flash of - is something there . other times its flat out there are people there . and other times they are just what I would call misty figures. I have seen this all my life as long as I can remember. here is a example of what I have seen "and seen by other people" ok
we were sitting in the desert in the shade having a beer and talking . I looked forward to the right a bit and watched , then said to my partner where did those kids come from ? "mind you there was not anyone within 50 miles or more" she said OMG they look like they have been wandering for days. we both got up to help them and when we stood they vanished. I asked her what did you see she said a girl about 10 with a little boy and a boy or girl about 6 .. well that's exactly what I saw.... so just one example of what I have seen all my life.. so what is a apparition or a psychotic illusion? IDK cause I see them all the time ! on another thread I see there asking about voices and smells and etc. well I could go on and on an on .. but even hangin with timothy leary I never hallucinated anything like what I have always seen ..........

hi Don96..
Welcome. Timothy Leary is a fine example of a person who tapped into a different reality...some would argue that it was drug induced, but I say nay. These experiences mean something, and like you said about being with Leary, I don't believe that any magic bus ride back in the 60's compares to some of these encounters with spirits we have had when we are stone cold sober!

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by mimi2112

Little Didgee, there was no flash when I took the picture.

My background is science so I am thinking from that perspective. My reasoning makes me wonder how a camera set to the visible spectrum can detect an object that no one else saw at the time the photo was taken. Does this mean cameras are more sensitive than our eyes? Do they cover wavelengths that are too short or long that our eyes cannot detect? e.g. ultraviolet light

What color was the boy? If he was white, this would mean all wavelengths in the visible spectrum were all shining at the same intensity.

Of course there are simple answers: the boy could have been very faint or no one was looking at the area where he was.

Originally Posted by mimi2112

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone here, but I think that spirits are a form of energy and they can make themselves known by using an opportunity that presents itself. I think that a lot of spirits try to communicate to some of us more sensitive people. Some spirits are more successful at just making their presence known, like a little signal saying "here I am". I believe they use electricity and light, a lot of times to communicate.

Sensitive people seem to have a 6th sense that can detect stimuli a lot of people miss. It seems to be a combination of a few senses working together. I personally knew a Cree lady who had this ability.

Originally Posted by mimi2112

So that figure that appeared in my picture was kind of just saying "hey". I didn't have a scared feeling about it. It wasn't like the figure was trying to warn us of something or send some cryptic message. He just used the opportunity to say hello. Does that make sense?

Yes, this makes perfect sense to me. I have had warnings from my late grandmother. The very first one, I ignored and paid dearly for it. Now, I always listen to her.

I believe in spirits, even though I am a scientist in training.

[mimi2112]

Little Didgee, the boy has flesh colored skin, light brown hair and a blue shirt. not sure if you're asking about being a white image--he is all in color like the rest of the picture.

[faerie_moon_x]

Originally Posted by Smartteaser192

I have an interesting question: how would you differentiate a paranormal apparition from a visual hallucination?

I do believe in ghosts and such. For me, the way I tell is that hallucinations have no energy, as in they are like images from a projector. Spirits have an energy. Usually I don't see spirits but feel them.

I like the show Ghost Hunters on Sci-fi channel. It shows good ways to test if something is a ghost or not.

[Frokly]

this is strange... i for one know that i have never seen a ghost spirit or anything supernatural in person in my life... and yet i barely visually hallucinate, so its quite confusing, but at the same time in my supposed state of delusion psychosis, i just watched a couple of paranormal videos and believe completely that they are real...

so i guess... the best way to differentiate between paranormal and hallucinations is to study videos of spirits and when you do find them you'll spot the similarities and you will know out of knowledge and experience... that's how i gather i would do it...

Frokly

[faerie_moon_x]

Never mind, I changed my mind.

[Ultra Darkness]

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

I like the show Ghost Hunters on Sci-fi channel. It shows good ways to test if something is a ghost or not.

I don't really watch that show, but the rest of my family loves it.

The best way I can think of to tell ghosts from hallucinations is to find out if anyone else notices anything. Take the shop my parents own, for example. While there I have heard footsteps, indistinct voices, and rustling bags. I've seen doors move, and heard the bell ring when no one comes in. But my family often notices similar things.

Another building, not far from ours, has a reputation for being haunted. People have even seen full-body apperations there.

Sometimes I wonder just how much of this town is haunted.

This may be a weird way of looking at it, but I don't think you can. Any sort of spiritual realm may be a sort of collective unconscious that becomes visible to certain people at certain times. A lot of "hallucinations" might be "real" in a non-traditional sense of the term. Obviously, hallucinations cannot harm someone physically (psychologically may be a different story), but neither can ghosts. Never has a ghost physically harmed anybody either. So, maybe ghosts are hallucinations, but some hallucinations are also ghosts

[Raindropvampire]

My husband is schizophrenic and we have had this conversation many times. It's actually one of his two favorite subjects.

1) What if people are psychic and not hallucinating?
2) Thousands of years ago if someone said they heard the voice of god it was taken seriously. Now you just get locked up or put on meds. What if we are missing out on actual words of wisdom from god because everything gets discounted these days??

We have discussed both of those topics to death in the 8 years we've been together and never came close to an actual answer for either of them. It truly warms my heart to know we aren't the only two people who have these questions

Heres my opinion on all this.

There are countless pictures taken in moderen society today with the advent of smartphones , if there was evidence for a camera capturing ghostly images we'd have it by now.

The truth is that most of these aparitions are unclear , open to interpretation , ambiguous , and in cases where they are sensed visually , etc , are dependent on a system of matter and chemicals to provide an accurate perception of what is materially happening. The same system of matter and chemicals that provide viseral experiences such as dreaming , but in a different context.

Originally Posted by Materly

Heres my opinion on all this.

There are countless pictures taken in moderen society today with the advent of smartphones , if there was evidence for a camera capturing ghostly images we'd have it by now.

The truth is that most of these aparitions are unclear , open to interpretation , ambiguous , and in cases where they are sensed visually , etc , are dependent on a system of matter and chemicals to provide an accurate perception of what is materially happening. The same system of matter and chemicals that provide viseral experiences such as dreaming , but in a different context.

I completely agree with that way of looking at it, materly.

[The_little_didgee]

I believe there is more than one universe and that these universes can briefly merge or overlap. Sometimes points in this one dissolve. When this happens the ghosts I sense are actual living people who live in a parallel universe. Ghosts are also definitely long gone people stuck between here and the afterlife.