[costello]

This is meant to be a light-hearted thread, although my son does find the subject upsetting.

My son is mixed race - white and black. He looks racially indeterminate, though, and apparently some people find this really uncomfortable, so they'll ask him "What are you?" or "Where are you from?" Then when he says he's black and white or he's from Kansas, some people actually accuse him of lying! Once a cop asked him where he was born. When he told him, the cop said, "You weren't born in Topeka!"

My son really does find this painful. Personally I think he's a walking, talking challenge to peoples' preconceptions and stereotypes. If this were happening to me, I'd probably find it amusing and want to play with people a little bit.

So, I was thinking of ways of deflecting the question. I suggested he pick little-known countries at random and never use the same country twice. Like Lithuania or Albania.

Then I suggested he create mystery by just saying, "You wouldn't believe me if I told you." If they keep asking, he could just shake his head and say, "No one ever believes me."

I was watching a Raffi video this morning. I noticed that Raffi resembles my son, so I looked him up on wikipedia. Apparently he was born in Cairo, Egypt to Armenian parents and raised in Canada. So, I suggested my son claim that pedigree.

Thoughts? Other suggestions? Anyone else have this problem? (If they do, I'm not trying to minimize it by finding joking ways of handling it. My son truly does find it upsetting. I just don't think you should let the boors get you down. And it's not worth it IMO to be aggressive and tell people to mind their own business.)

[Perna]

I find asking personal questions of someone you do not know is rude. My stepson is over seven and a half feet tall and gets asked forever how tall he is. He ignores such questions so then many people turn to whoever he's with and ask them! Other people who look unusual to me are not circus freaks put on earth to entertain me.

I would stay as bland as possible when answering "dumb" personal questions. "What are you?" would get, "A person annoyed at your rudeness" and me walking away. "Where are you from" or "where were you born" would get, "obviously not far enough away from rude, personal questions" or, an incredulous-sounding "Do I know you?" If someone like a policeman asked who I did not want to be quite so pointed around, I'd just say, "here, the US". Followup questions in that direction would be "Rudesville, Kansas" or something.

[Sometimes psychotic]

I'm not sure its any form of racism so much as curiosity. I definitely ask everyone (of every race accent etc)where they are from or where they grew up during the introduction phase and if they say New York then fine---I don't normally probe but if they say they were adopted from Korea but don't remember it then that's cool too. Some people jump the gun and start with their original place of birth or families origin when I'm just trying to figure out for example if they are familiar with snow and the like ie did you go to school in the south. While it does sound like some of the people your son encounters are jerks the questions about origin aren't really wrong in and of themselves. I suppose some of this is in my case about making the transition to work/school easier for new people because we get a lot of international people but its also fun to learn about different cultures. So here is the problem if your son assumes these questions are negative then they will be. I think that if he randomly picks countries people are going to assume he has more issues than he already has and if he gets into the habit of lying about a specific country it might come up at something important like a doctors appointment or job interview. I would ask him if when he looks at the pages of national geographic he is at all curious about where the photos are taken...this might yield further insight.

[unaluna]

Omg. I would have told the cop, yeah believe it or not race-mixing is legal now. Where have you been for the last 50 years. What a jerk.

Okay or he can say, yeah i am handsome, aint i?!

Eta - my friend got around this by naming her son Ricardo. He looks kind of latin or italian.

[Sometimes psychotic]

You know I was thinking about this further....and the more I think about it's about personal attitude...I have red hair and when I was walking home on St Pat's day some random guy who happened to be black if that's meaningful to you asked "You have to have some Irish in you" I just said yeah just a little...its maybe less than 5% of my heritage as we are mostly German. Once another random person who also happened to be black asked if I was one of those albino white people. I simply said no and moved on. I can't say I was offended by either encounter.

When I was a little kid every single time I went to the store with my mom some (typically white and older) lady would come over and ask where I got my red hair from and I would just say my dad. You would not believe the number of people with no concept of genetics who insisted it must skip a generation so I must be wrong. I just looked at my mom who said she got it from her father.

Here is the commonality of these stories people ask because they want to interact and physical characteristics are an obvious opening just like nice necklace, dress, etc. If I though everyone who asked me about me hair thought of me as some sort of oddity then it would be a problem instead I choose to think they find me fascinating and would like to interact...if they didn't like my characteristics then why say anything to me at all? The people who don't say hello because they think I'm strange rather than neat well those are the ones to be afraid of. I say teach him not to be offended, changing yourself is hard but getting society to change is nearly impossible.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

I'm not sure its any form of racism so much as curiosity.

I'm also very curious, and I'm sure I've asked foreigners where they're from. I'd never ask that of someone who spoke with an American accent though. I assume they're from here. To assume otherwise merely because they look Asian or something is just rude IMO.

My sister introduced me to the word 'xenophilia' - the opposite of 'xenophobia.' I think I'm a xenophile. I'm just drawn to foreigners. I remember in my first week of university (I came from this tiny, all-white Kansas town), I saw this swarthy-looking guy in class and immediately buttonholed him and asked him all about his country (Pakistan) and tribe (the Afridi). After we'd been talking for about an hour, he told me I was the first female he's ever talked to who wasn't his relative. And he was like 20 years old! I hope I left him with a good impression of my gender.

While it does sound like some of the people your son encounters are jerks the questions about origin aren't really wrong in and of themselves.

I suspect part of his problem is he has huge issues around race. Also, his dad abandoned him. So, these questions are inherently painful for him.

[Gr3tta]

I think your son should make up a term for his race, like "afretic,or " oramorite,"or just some crazy word, then act really really super offended people dont know that term

ALSO - He could just say "I'm from the same country as the president."

[costello]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

You know I was thinking about this further....and the more I think about it's about personal attitude...

I agree. It's personal. I wouldn't be offended by such questions, but I've learned over the years that some people are, so I've learned to restrain myself.

I met this couple once in Topeka who both had heavy accents. I asked the woman where they were from. She gave me a dirty look and said, "Topeka." They weren't from Topeka, clearly, but I didn't argue. I just made a mental note that not everyone welcomes such questions evidently, and maybe I should curb my exuberance in the future.

I found the same problem with American accents. I find regional accents fascinating, but I've also learned that some people are ashamed of their accent or the region of the country they're from. So, I've stopped asking about that too.

My son, unfortunately, hates these questions. I say 'unfortunately,' because apparently something about him just invites people to ask. He also has a hard time saying 'no.' He feels obligated to give strangers a lot of personal information just because they ask.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Perna

an incredulous-sounding "Do I know you?"

I love that response. I doubt if my son would be able to carry it off, though.

Once a coworker was prying into his ethnicity (and accusing him of lying, btw). My son actually stood up for himself a bit and asked the guy if he wasn't being a bit nosy and asking personal questions. The guy countered that he was entitled to ask such questions if it helped him to get to know my son better.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

I think your son should make up a term for his race, like "afretic," oramorite,"or just some crazy word, then really really super offended people dont know that term

ALSO - He could just say "I'm from the same country as the president."

Those are great answers. I love oramorite. I think I was an Oramorite in a previous life.

[Rapunzel]

May I ask how old your son is? If he is young, he will develop a routine for answering those kinds of questions. And how you teach him about this will shape both his self-image and his perceptions about other people.

Most people are probably just interested and curious, and aren't thinking about it as such a personal question since usually people can look at each other and identify where someone's parentage originates based on observable physical characteristics. When they can't, they approach it as a puzzle for which they lack the solution. But if you are thinking of it as challenging someone's parentage, or if they take it a step further by insisting that the answer they are given is wrong, then it could easily get sensitive.

It isn't aggressive to ask the question, and it also isn't aggressive to have boundaries. Aggressive is putting someone down, hurting them in some way, or trampling their sensitivities, feelings, rights, etc. Yelling at them might be aggressive. But just saying something like "That's a personal question and I would rather not talk about it" is assertive - just setting a limit and is well within your rights in most circumstances. Making a joke is also an option, but that is just a little bit passive aggressive in that joking about their question might imply that they asked a wrong question without letting them know why. Most people probably will take a joking answer just fine though. Or he can just tell them the truth. "I'm from Kansas." There is nothing wrong with that, but a lot of people are likely to keep asking because they are still interested/curious about identifying the characteristics that had them puzzled. If he just wants to end the conversation, a simple explanation, "I'm black and white," might do the trick. It tells them what they wanted to know and they will probably accept that.

It all really comes down to what is effective in terms of what he can feel good about. He could try different responses, see how people tend to react, and choose what to say to that question based on the results that he prefers. And it might not always be the same. Sometimes he might enjoy saying something funny. Sometimes he might just want to be left alone. Other times maybe he will feel like talking about it (maybe if the person asking is someone he wants to be friends with and feels like he can trust). He should be taught that people don't mean to be rude or inappropriate, but are just curious, and that he can be confident about who he is and about setting limits when he doesn't want to give personal information.

[costello]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Rapunzel. Many good points. He does need to be more assertive and set good boundaries. That's something he's working on.

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

May I ask how old your son is? If he is young, he will develop a routine for answering those kinds of questions. And how you teach him about this will shape both his self-image and his perceptions about other people.

He'll be 29 on Friday. So, he's been dealing with this for a long time without having any effective strategies. He's tried just saying, "I'm from Kansas," and "I'm black and white." He's been accused of lying when he tells the truth - by more than one person, including a cop. So, he feels like the truth doesn't 'work' as an answer. I do think ultimately he feels intruded upon by the question. And I think on some level he questions whether he has the right to withhold the information.

But just saying something like "That's a personal question and I would rather not talk about it" is assertive - just setting a limit and is well within your rights in most circumstances.

That's a good response. I wonder if it would work with the kind of person who would out and out accuse you of lying about your own ethnicity or birthplace? I suppose if they pushed back, he could just continue repeating the same line until they gave up.

He should be taught that people don't mean to be rude or inappropriate, but are just curious, and that he can be confident about who he is and about setting limits when he doesn't want to give personal information.

My son tends to be paranoid, so I'm working very hard on helping him understand other people's possible motivations for what they do and that it's usually about themselves and not him (i.e., they're just curious; they're not judging him).

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by costello

I'm also very curious, and I'm sure I've asked foreigners where they're from. I'd never ask that of someone who spoke with an American accent though. I assume they're from here. To assume otherwise merely because they look Asian or something is just rude IMO.

My sister introduced me to the word 'xenophilia' - the opposite of 'xenophobia.' I think I'm a xenophile. I'm just drawn to foreigners. I remember in my first week of university (I came from this tiny, all-white Kansas town), I saw this swarthy-looking guy in class and immediately buttonholed him and asked him all about his country (Pakistan) and tribe (the Afridi). After we'd been talking for about an hour, he told me I was the first female he's ever talked to who wasn't his relative. And he was like 20 years old! I hope I left him with a good impression of my gender.

I suspect part of his problem is he has huge issues around race. Also, his dad abandoned him. So, these questions are inherently painful for him.

Usually when I ask someone where they are from I'm literally expecting Michigan or Wisconsin or whatever...being at a university people in these jobs move frequently as part of the education process and its pretty common to ask what schools people went to etc. Sometimes people volunteer more about their backgrounds or sometimes I know because its in their cv or they are from outside the country and we have to deal with J1 paperwork or whatever. I'm not typically like oh you're tan where are you or your family from. I think part of this is spending the last 20 years of my life at a university if someone is actually from this city that in itself is quite unusual and I will then ask for restaurant recommendations or possibly mechanics...so regardless of actual origin its a useful conversation starter.

But given that you ran up to someone you understand what I'm trying to get at in the second post...people generally start the convo because they are really interested in you and just want to talk to you. These are the people I'm not worried about. Now the guy who thinks I'm a female and likely to get knocked up and be off work to deliver and tosses my cv...that's the guy I'm worried about.

[costello]

This is why I think it is about race and why a lot of people who aren't multiracial don't understand that:

16 questions all multiracial people are asked at least once - Us Vs Th3m

"What are you?" White people ask. - The Race Card Project

Six Questions to Avoid Asking People of Color

http://www.drmariaroot.com/doc/50Experiences.pdf

16 Things You Should Never Say To Mixed-Race People [VIDEO]

There's even a book called What Are You? (an astonishingly rude question IMO) which I tried to get my son to read when he was a teen. He wasn't interested.

[Gr3tta]

If i would like to hear about where someone is from, particularly if they have a foreign accent, rather than ask, "where are you from," i will ask, "did you grow up in name of my city?" I feel this does not imply in any way that they may be from another country, and leaves the door open for an answer of either, "I grew up mostly in Tennessee," or "my parents cam here from India when i was eight." Depending on how they want to identify.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Usually when I ask someone where they are from I'm literally expecting Michigan or Wisconsin or whatever...

Context is everything. I think some of these people are asking these questions before they even ask my son's name (as mentioned on one of the websites). One guy my son met at a get-together with friends. They met at an apartment, and my son was going to drive everyone to a different location. This guy tells my son that he won't get into his car and ride with him until he knows what his race is. He told him he looked like an Arab.

But given that you ran up to someone you understand what I'm trying to get at in the second post...people generally start the convo because they are really interested in you and just want to talk to you.

Yep. And the guy I was talking to was very, very proud of his country and ethnicity. He seemed to appreciate the interest. If he'd looked resentful, of course I wouldn't have pried.

[Gr3tta]

@costello- based on a new census taking thingy at my wife's work- guess what? ...Arab's are white!

[costello]

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

If i would like to hear about where someone is from, particularly if they have a foreign accent, rather than ask, "where are you from," i will ask, "did you grow up in name of my city?" I feel this does not imply in any way that they may be from another country, and leaves the door open for an answer of either, "I grew up mostly in Tennessee," or "my parents cam here from India when i was eight." Depending on how they want to identify.

I have a coworker from Uganda. I asked her if she's asked 'where are you from?' a lot. She says she is - when they hear her accent, and it doesn't bother her at all.

I have to confess to being very curious about Africa - and have been since I was very young. Not surprising my son's father is Nigerian, eh? When I hear African accents in a public place, I have to resist the urge to rush over and begin talking to whomever it is. Some people might welcome it, but others mightn't. Best not make a fool of myself.

I don't think I'd be quite so gauche to ask a stranger in a store "Where are you from?" with no preliminary conversation at all, but, boy, I'd want to. This is where self-control kicks in.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

@costello- based on a new census taking thingy at my wife's work- guess what? ...Arab's are white!

My God, I'm glad we have that sorted out!

Actually I do think that some people ask my son that question because they feel a need to categorize people by race before they know how to act with them.

[Gr3tta]

I once saw an exhibit about race and the census with a woman holding a sign listing 5 or 6 different racial categories she had been assigned in her lifetime. Crazy!!!!

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by costello

Context is everything. I think some of these people are asking these questions before they even ask my son's name (as mentioned on one of the websites). One guy my son met at a get-together with friends. They met at an apartment, and my son was going to drive everyone to a different location. This guy tells my son that he won't get into his car and ride with him until he knows what his race is. He told him he looked like an Arab.

Yep. And the guy I was talking to was very, very proud of his country and ethnicity. He seemed to appreciate the interest. If he'd looked resentful, of course I wouldn't have pried.

Wow that's pretty extreme...there really is no correct response to that other than feel free to drive yourself then. I wonder if this is regional. I've always lived in the Midwest and while the area I grew up in (Detroit metro) was pretty racially biased as well as segregated I've never heard of anything like that being said directly to a person. People say just awful things behind peoples back though of course those are the people who typically cease to be my friends unless I'm unfortunately related to them then they get corrected.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Wow that's pretty extreme...there really is no correct response to that other than feel free to drive yourself then.

I think that's pretty much what he said.

I was reading through one of those links I posted earlier and found this: "You have repeatedly been the recipient of stares or longer than passing glances from strangers."

The thing is my son would tell me that people were staring at him. And I'd suggest that he was 'imagining it' (i.e., 'being paranoid'). Then I paid more attention and noticed that some people do stare at him. And I'd think, "WTF? What are you looking at?" I mean to me my son is just an ordinary-looking guy. He's not exceptionally short or tall or fat or thin. He's not doing anything particularly odd. Why stare?

Now I wonder if it's that race thing. People trying to puzzle out his race or how he fits in with the family. I know when he was young some people either assumed he was adopted or that he was lost from his real family when they saw him with us. And how does it feed into his paranoia? Is it a contributing factor? Even if it isn't it must certainly exacerbate the problem. And having your mom telling you you're imagining it can't help.

[newtus]

im black and mexican and people have a hard time pointing out my race. many times ive gotten "arab" or "middle eastern" because my nose is prominent but my skin is darker.

when people ask "what are you?" im really offended. im human i say. if people ask "what ethnicity or race are you?" im not so offended. but theres really something offense about asking "WHAT ARE YOU?". thats really offense to me. like "what"? WHAT AM I? IM HUMAN.

i also get asked if im native american a lot. its the mexican nose and dark skin i have. i think.

my 23andme profile said i had a lot of native american in me because of the mexican and a lot of european. but to keep it simple i say "black and mexican" or "african american and mexican". otherwise i say "human". i get stared at a lot too. people cant seem to figure it out and they dont like that they cant. i can tell. some people say they dont like that they cant tell either.

[costello]

Do you think you ever get stared at because people are trying to figure out your race, newtus?

[newtus]

Originally Posted by costello

Do you think you ever get stared at because people are trying to figure out your race, newtus?

yes a lot. i say yes because i get asked my race a lot.

ive gotten middle eastern. native american. hawaiian. half black/white. but i never seem to get just black. and that makes me really wonder. because im half black and i thought that would be obvious. but its completely not. or so it seems to people. some people dont even believe im black. sometimes i find it offensive when people say that dont believe me when i say my race. i really do. race is a sensitive subject to me.