Have any of you guys noticed discrimination against people with schizophrenia in general?

I have noticed it many places before and even on mental health sites that are supposed to be made for everyone
Schizophrenia always seems to get the short end of the stick

[Sometimes psychotic]

I haven't noticed it here but I know what you mean....

I've actually found personally that the discrimination from MH staff and patients to be far worse than the general public. I think because I can pass for 'normal' with most people and so it's only awkward if people ask probing questions about work/study/what I'm doing with my life, and when trying to hide being in hospital/rehab. And if things are really bad, I tend to hide away from others so they don't see it.

But staff and patients hurt me far more because I don't fit into their stereotype of a 'schizophrenic', or even 'depression' all those years ago. So they expect me to 'justify' my symptoms to 'prove' I have a MI diagnosis, or they assume that my difficulties can't be that bad because I don't take medication, like coping skills apparently only work if your issues are 'mild', and if things were 'bad enough', I'd be willing to take meds that don't help and make me feel even worse!!??? Wtf?!

But, at the end of the day, discrimination sucks, whoever it's from

*Willow*

[Kuras]

Not here specifically. In society, sure. Schizophrenia has something of a bad rap for many who don't understand it. Media portrayals haven't helped much in this regard. It's part of why I'm somewhat open about it, though obviously not shouting it from the rooftops. It's good for people to see that schizophrenics aren't freaks or inherently dangerous.

[scar12346]

I feel bad because I would scream if someone calls me schizo, but I guess screaming doesn't help my case..

[ofthevalley]

Yup. We are all waiting for our chance to terrorize people.
Even the word schizo is thrown around like it's no big deal. Even my kid said it. He doesn't know about my dx.

[Luglug]

I have experienced this.

I was married to my first wife for 5 years when I was dx. The day I told her, she went to stay with her mom because she thought I was suddenly dangerous (no domestic abuse history). This wife would divorce me 2 years later, with the illness being a major factor.

Later, I am dating my second wife. She is living with a friend. I visit their house regularly to spend time with my girlfriend. My gf tells her friend I am sz, and then the friend kicks her out of the house and ends a 15 year friendship because I was brought around. I didn't learn this was the reason for the drama until we were married for 2 years.

I hate the stigma. I have no criminal record and no violent past.

[Quarter life]

Mental illness bought on by an accident of birth, trauma, environment, faulty brain chemistry or associated illness/circumstances… is for all of us a heavy cross to bear, and is almost always exacerbated by those around us who perpetually tell us that we just aren't good enough, that we are damaged, that we have no value as citizens of the world.....a heartbreaking waste of life.

In general I think that there is a great deal of discrimination and misjudgement across the board with all Mental Illnesses. I have been told repeatedly that PTSD isn't a real mental illness, and/or that it is experienced mostly by those who are overly sensitive or weak willed.

[Shadow wings]

I think there is a lot of stigma and misunderstanding about mental illness in general but it does seem slightly worse for Schizophrenia. I'm diagnosed schizoaffective and my previous employer discriminated against me.

[Gr3tta_0]

The people in my office are meaner about consumers with a borderline dx than schizophrenia.
I think theres an attitude that peiple with schizophrenia can't help it, but people with bpd could control themselves if they wanted to. Which is wrong and offensive, in my opinion.

[Kuras]

Back when I worked for this hospital, I confided in a tech about my illness, due to a question she had asked me. She basically told me not to tell anyone because it might cause me to lose my job. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside lol.

I've heard loads of people use the term "schizo" to describe someone who clearly has a mental illness. Also I've heard people talking about schizophrenia and they think it means multiple personalities.

[Shadow wings]

I've heard people use schizo meanly to describe people with mental illness but also anyone who appears a bit strange. There's a man that hangs around outside my local supermarket, he's a bit twitchy for whatever reason, but is just being friendly to people, saying hi etc and I've heard people call him schizo, psycho etc.

When I was doing my psychology masters with some people who wanted to do clinical psychology afterwards, I was at a party and one of them shouted "don't let the schizophrenic in!" over and over. I asked wtf that was about and she said that there was this guy in her halls who talked to himself and was "weird" and so she didn't want him to come to the party. And I said, but that doesn't make him schizophrenic!? And that I thought she wanted to become a clinical psychologist and work with MI?? So this other girl, who also wanted to become a clinical psychologist, said "well, it's one thing to work with THEM, but another thing to socialise with them!"

If I'd have been braver, I'd have outed myself, told them to go F themselves and left...but I chickened out and just never spoke to them again... :/

*Willow*

[Luglug]

Interesting story Willow. I don't know what I would have done. It would be great to tell them about yourself and watch their jaws drop, but at the same time, it is dangerous to out ourselves, as described within this thread on many occasions.

[epthe2]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

I've actually found personally that the discrimination from MH staff and patients to be far worse than the general public. I think because I can pass for 'normal' with most people and so it's only awkward if people ask probing questions about work/study/what I'm doing with my life, and when trying to hide being in hospital/rehab. And if things are really bad, I tend to hide away from others so they don't see it.

But staff and patients hurt me far more because I don't fit into their stereotype of a 'schizophrenic', or even 'depression' all those years ago. So they expect me to 'justify' my symptoms to 'prove' I have a MI diagnosis, or they assume that my difficulties can't be that bad because I don't take medication, like coping skills apparently only work if your issues are 'mild', and if things were 'bad enough', I'd be willing to take meds that don't help and make me feel even worse!!??? Wtf?!

But, at the end of the day, discrimination sucks, whoever it's from

*Willow*

Very interesting. I also stopped taking meds because they caused akathisia and tardive dyskinesia, so I resorted to coping skills to deal with my issues, and I've been told by other patients that I must have been misdiagnosed if I can survive without neuroleptic drugs.

The way I look at it is that I have learned so much since my first psychotic break and I have grown as a person since then. I have learned how to cope with it.

[Kuras]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

When I was doing my psychology masters with some people who wanted to do clinical psychology afterwards, I was at a party and one of them shouted "don't let the schizophrenic in!" over and over. I asked wtf that was about and she said that there was this guy in her halls who talked to himself and was "weird" and so she didn't want him to come to the party. And I said, but that doesn't make him schizophrenic!? And that I thought she wanted to become a clinical psychologist and work with MI?? So this other girl, who also wanted to become a clinical psychologist, said "well, it's one thing to work with THEM, but another thing to socialise with them!"

If I'd have been braver, I'd have outed myself, told them to go F themselves and left...but I chickened out and just never spoke to them again... :/

*Willow*

Wow, sound like pretty garbage human beings who should have absolutely nothing to do with the fields of psychology or psychiatry.

Originally Posted by epthe2

Very interesting. I also stopped taking meds because they caused akathisia and tardive dyskinesia, so I resorted to coping skills to deal with my issues, and I've been told by other patients that I must have been misdiagnosed if I can survive without neuroleptic drugs.

The way I look at it is that I have learned so much since my first psychotic break and I have grown as a person since then. I have learned how to cope with it.

I'm sorry that it also happens to you It's really hurtful when people completely invalidate your experiences just because meds don't work. I'm sure it would be nice to just take a pill and have most/all of it go away without horrific side effects, but just because that doesn't work for everyone, doesn't mean our struggles are less valid.

But I also feel that I have grown so much as a person over the last 10 years. I am so much stronger than I was before this all started and I know that I can get through anything because I've had no choice without effective treatments and mostly unsupportive/abusive healthcare professionals (though fortunately a couple of good ones lately too).

All the best,

*Willow*

Originally Posted by Kuras

Wow, sound like pretty garbage human beings who should have absolutely nothing to do with the fields of psychology or psychiatry.

Unfortunately IME I've found healthcare professionals can be just as stigmatising as everyone else. Psychiatry, for example, doesn't always attract the best and brightest, but often the Drs who couldn't handle other areas of medicine. Four people that I personally know from medschool went into psychiatry, only one of them because she genuinely had an interest in it (unfortunately she later burnt out and left medicine completely). The other 3 went into psych because they couldn't do what they really wanted to do as it was too competitive and/or challenging.

Whilst psych is challenging emotionally, it's often seen as an 'easier' option in terms of on call rotas and the professional exams aren't seen as so difficult. In medschool we used to call those pdocs '40 percenters' ie they just scraped a pass through medschool. It's really terrible! However, there are a few good ones out there who are bright and interested in their profession and want to help their patients. Unfortunately IME you have to wade through a lot of garbage to find them :/

Btw, neither of those girls got onto a clinical psychology doctoral programme yet But they do still work in mental health fields...

*Willow*

[epthe2]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Unfortunately IME I've found healthcare professionals can be just as stigmatising as everyone else. Psychiatry, for example, doesn't always attract the best and brightest, but often the Drs who couldn't handle other areas of medicine. Four people that I personally know from medschool went into psychiatry, only one of them because she genuinely had an interest in it (unfortunately she later burnt out and left medicine completely). The other 3 went into psych because they couldn't do what they really wanted to do as it was too competitive and/or challenging.

Whilst psych is challenging emotionally, it's often seen as an 'easier' option in terms of on call rotas and the professional exams aren't seen as so difficult. In medschool we used to call those pdocs '40 percenters' ie they just scraped a pass through medschool. It's really terrible! However, there are a few good ones out there who are bright and interested in their profession and want to help their patients. Unfortunately IME you have to wade through a lot of garbage to find them :/

Btw, neither of those girls got onto a clinical psychology doctoral programme yet But they do still work in mental health fields...

*Willow*

That' makes so much sense to me now. I can see how it would mainly attract the ones who couldn't make it into the more competitive programs, because when you think about it, they don't do surgeries, they don't deal with medical issues like diabetes, high blood pressure, infections, cancer (you see other doctors for those issues), and they don't do any real diagnostic medical tests. I ran into my fair share of monumentally abysmal psychiatrists and especially psychiatric nurse practitioners. i also wonder if some of them go into psychiatry for the authority and power it gives them. They literally have the power to take away a person's freedom and to force them to take medications against their will. imagine if a primary care physician had the power to incarcerate an overweight patient until they lost weight, and force them to take insulin shots while they were incarcerated AND still force them to take insulin shots when they were released to go back home. Now that is a tot of power to give one person.

Some of the main coping skills I have learned are what NOT to do in public, what NOT to say to other people, behaviors to avoid around others, etc. In essence, how to keep myself from being put back in a psych ward. This is where it helps to have a good behavioral therapist-- a psychologist rather than a psychiatrist.

The neuroleptic drugs have such nasty side effects that I wonder if anyone can stay on them for life without serious consequences to their health and ultimately their longevity. But for some people they can't seem to cope without them. I'm definitely pro-choice when it comes to psych meds. I believe there should be informed consent about the side effects and the withdrawal symptoms if they ever decide to stop taking them. I was caught off guard by the withdrawals. They were worse than anything I had experienced from opioids.

Originally Posted by epthe2

i also wonder if some of them go into psychiatry for the authority and power it gives them. They literally have the power to take away a person's freedom and to force them to take medications against their will. imagine if a primary care physician had the power to incarcerate an overweight patient until they lost weight, and force them to take insulin shots while they were incarcerated AND still force them to take insulin shots when they were released to go back home. Now that is a tot of power to give one person.

I agree, and worryingly, that may be the reason some pdocs go into psychiatry... :/

Originally Posted by epthe2

Some of the main coping skills I have learned are what NOT to do in public, what NOT to say to other people, behaviors to avoid around others, etc. In essence, how to keep myself from being put back in a psych ward. This is where it helps to have a good behavioral therapist-- a psychologist rather than a psychiatrist.

Yes, I definitely need to work on this as I've been locked up on section for the past 15 months because of stupidly opening my mouth to the wrong person.

For me, what was most helpful was learning many strategies to cope with distressing emotions/experiences. Eg I couldn't change what the voices said, but I could stop myself being so upset by it.

Originally Posted by epthe2

The neuroleptic drugs have such nasty side effects that I wonder if anyone can stay on them for life without serious consequences to their health and ultimately their longevity. But for some people they can't seem to cope without them. I'm definitely pro-choice when it comes to psych meds. I believe there should be informed consent about the side effects and the withdrawal symptoms if they ever decide to stop taking them.

I completely agree.

*Willow*

[Kuras]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Unfortunately IME I've found healthcare professionals can be just as stigmatising as everyone else. Psychiatry, for example, doesn't always attract the best and brightest, but often the Drs who couldn't handle other areas of medicine. Four people that I personally know from medschool went into psychiatry, only one of them because she genuinely had an interest in it (unfortunately she later burnt out and left medicine completely). The other 3 went into psych because they couldn't do what they really wanted to do as it was too competitive and/or challenging.

Whilst psych is challenging emotionally, it's often seen as an 'easier' option in terms of on call rotas and the professional exams aren't seen as so difficult. In medschool we used to call those pdocs '40 percenters' ie they just scraped a pass through medschool. It's really terrible! However, there are a few good ones out there who are bright and interested in their profession and want to help their patients. Unfortunately IME you have to wade through a lot of garbage to find them :/

Btw, neither of those girls got onto a clinical psychology doctoral programme yet But they do still work in mental health fields...

*Willow*

Indeed, stigmatization exists everywhere and, unfortunately like you said, not everyone in the field is there because they should be. I had a conversation with my old pysch professor about the psych treatment field and how much burn-out there is in general. And that includes people who actually aspired to have such a career. It pains me to see doctors, therapists, and treatment workers without any real sense of compassion. Of course, that extends to most fields of medicine. I remember when I got off drugs and alcohol, I experienced seizures for about three weeks while in treatment. On numerous hospital trips, I had attending doctors and nurses who treated me like dirt when they found out I was in rehab because they just assumed I was there to cop drugs. I finally lost it and told my house manager that if I ever had to go to the hospital again due to a seizure, that he tell them I don't want a damn thing except to be stabilized because I'm not interested in being looked down on or treated like garbage.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Unfortunately IME I've found healthcare professionals can be just as stigmatising as everyone else.

Healthcare seems to attract a certain type of person. I noticed this when I was in an allied healthcare program. About 75% of the students were judgmental and superficial. They mainly cared about their egos and status. The rest genuinely wanted to help others and make a difference.

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Psychiatry, for example, doesn't always attract the best and brightest, but often the Drs who couldn't handle other areas of medicine. Four people that I personally know from medschool went into psychiatry, only one of them because she genuinely had an interest in it (unfortunately she later burnt out and left medicine completely). The other 3 went into psych because they couldn't do what they really wanted to do as it was too competitive and/or challenging.

Whilst psych is challenging emotionally, it's often seen as an 'easier' option in terms of on call rotas and the professional exams aren't seen as so difficult. In medschool we used to call those pdocs '40 percenters' ie they just scraped a pass through medschool. It's really terrible! However, there are a few good ones out there who are bright and interested in their profession and want to help their patients. Unfortunately IME you have to wade through a lot of garbage to find them :/

This is true. A lot of them seem to either go into pathology or psychiatry.

After visiting a questionable psychiatrist, I decided to check his history on the CPSO website. He was a Canadian who went to medical school in eastern Europe and did his residency in Ontario. He started out in pathology and completed two years. After that he transferred to psychiatry. His residency was interrupted a few times after that. He also had no privileges.

Even though the gaps in his residency could be due to anything, they suggested, along with his poor interpersonal skills and rigid thinking, that a career in medicine was a poor fit.

My psychiatrist wanted to go into psychiatry, and it shows. She is genuinely interested in people and is open minded. I was very lucky to find her.

[The_little_didgee]

There is so much discrimination in the profession. It goes beyond schizophrenia. People with psychotic disorders seem to get better services then someone who has a personality disorder diagnosis. Anyone diagnosed with a personality disorder knows this.

I was in a unique situation. When I was younger I was misdiagnosed with a PD and had a hard time getting help in my late teens. The clinicians all thought I was faking it and trying to manipulate them. About 7 years after that diagnosis I developed psychosis that lasted over a year and was treated for it. What a difference. Doctors actually wanted to help. Services were even offered. Where the hell were they in 1994 (when they couldn't tell the difference between ASD and PD)?

Discrimination separates the clients from the clinicians and reinforces marginalization. It is the line between 'us vs them'. Every hospitalization was like that. They were all about power and conformity. They never wanted me to succeed. If they did they would have treated me better and listened.

Originally Posted by Kuras

Indeed, stigmatization exists everywhere and, unfortunately like you said, not everyone in the field is there because they should be. I had a conversation with my old pysch professor about the psych treatment field and how much burn-out there is in general. And that includes people who actually aspired to have such a career. It pains me to see doctors, therapists, and treatment workers without any real sense of compassion. Of course, that extends to most fields of medicine. I remember when I got off drugs and alcohol, I experienced seizures for about three weeks while in treatment. On numerous hospital trips, I had attending doctors and nurses who treated me like dirt when they found out I was in rehab because they just assumed I was there to cop drugs. I finally lost it and told my house manager that if I ever had to go to the hospital again due to a seizure, that he tell them I don't want a damn thing except to be stabilized because I'm not interested in being looked down on or treated like garbage.

I'm sorry that you were treated like that. It's not right

*Willow*