[sandersdillion948]

Do I have to tolerate someone who would like to see my oppressed? My cousin is a church pastor who claims to love me and only believes in marriage between a man and a woman, essentially he would like to see me oppressed as gay marriage is legal in my state. Something is wrong with that logic, that it not love and it certainly is not moral, I am the immoral one?? Give me a break!

So, i put on my FACEBOOK, that "If there is anyone who believes marriage is only between a man and a woman, please delete yourself off my list. So far I have deleted 4 people. I don't want those people in my life, they are toxic.

[Harley47]

I'd tell you good for you.

I was, in my younger years, quite active in my church. Full of good people, and generally speaking it was a rather contemporary church, theologically speaking. The "procedures" were rather conservative (which I like...I'm not much for singing, as I suck at it, and I do like the sermon), but the theology and teachings were in line with what I personally believed. I miss that.

When we moved, the church we found was...shall we say...highly conservative, in matters of theology. The same type of thing you seemed to have experienced, if I'm reading you right. It makes me sick, and has done nothing but continually hammer nails into the coffin of my religion for the past...4 years now? I'm not sure what I consider myself to be religiously anymore. lol Before I prattle on and make this about how bad my own church sucks, rest assured, you are not alone. I don't tolerate hate, particularly backed by religion, towards any group, even if the group is not my own (I myself am straight).

Speaking to you, good for you for standing up for yourself. Condemnation of homosexuality is, in the Christian context, horribly misconstrued anyway...if you'll look, quite literally, within five lines of the "prohibition" against homosexuality, you'll see similar condemnations against the cutting of hair, eating shellfish and pork, tattoos, and wearing clothes made of two different materials. I promise you, it'd be an interesting conversation piece next time the pastor walks in with that polyester blend on.

Do you "have" to tolerate it? No, not at all. I "tolerate" my church only for the sake of my seven year old sister and my mother...I don't want to ostracize them for my own beliefs. I would tell you that you haven't lost anything in them anyway. People, in both the best and worst of intentions, can and will misconstrue the Bible to say whatever it is they wish. Don't allow what one reading of the Bible is shape what it "is" or "should" be for you. In this case, I'd tell you to ignore the hell out of your cousin...unless he'd like to debate the matter over a shrimp cocktail?

Do hope I was of some help...don't let them get you down.

Hugs,
Harley

[Rapunzel]

People are entitled to believe as they feel is right. Believing that God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman is no more changeable than your sexual preference is. And it is possible for your cousin to believe as he does and love you.

You have the right to choose who you talk to and spend time with. If you choose to spend time with your family or others whose beliefs you do not like, you may need to make certain topics off limit for conversation. They don't need to harass you over your lifestyle choices, and you don't need to insist that they change who they are or what they believe either. They have rights also.

[RTerroni]

Well you're not going to like me because I am very against same-sex marriage.

I agree with Rapunzel everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Webgoji]

Let's just make sure we're all correct in our assertions. Being gay is no more a "lifestyle choice" than being straight. I can't choose to change my mind and be gay and my friends can't change their mind and choose to be straight. Going out every weekend and drinking to excess is a lifestyle choice, sexual orientation isn't.

It's true that there shouldn't be any harassment either way. We should no more discriminate against someone's religious beliefs any more than they should discriminate against someone's sexual orientation. So I agree that it's best to keep those topics off the table for discussion.

People are in your life by invitation only.

However, isn't your intolerance somewhat hypocritical?

[RTerroni]

I'm going to have to disagree with you Webgoji, I strongly believe that everyone is born straight and those who become gay make that decision themselves.

[Middlemarcher]

....Aaaand the thread is already heading in this direction. Awesome.

Sandersdillion, good for you. No, you don't have to tolerate it. I'm a straight ally. There are many things that I disagree with that I don't have a problem seeing on Facebook (conservative economic views, pro-life views, pro-gun rights views, etc). But I have deleted a number of people from FB for expressing anti-gay rights views. I hope you have supportive people around you.

[sandersdillion948]

@ RTerroni, At what age did you decide to be straight? Yes, I chose to be beat up in high school, harassed by coworkers and ostracized by some of my family, you are a fool if you believe that, it's only true in your head. You are the kind of person who has caused me a hell of a lot of problems and I would suggest you reconsider your ignorant view point on the subject of homosexuality.

Thanks to everyone ELSE, I am not being intolerant, but i will not sit ideally by and deal with people who think I should be oppressed and not of the same rights as everyone else. Those people can go to hell, whats worse is they are nice to me when they say "I dont support same sex marriage" but are so ignorant of what that actually means to my life.

Originally Posted by sandersdillion948

@ RTerroni, At what age did you decide to be straight? Yes, I chose to be beat up in high school, harassed by coworkers and ostracized by some of my family, you are a fool if you believe that, it's only true in your head. You are the kind of person who has caused me a hell of a lot of problems and I would suggest you reconsider your ignorant view point on the subject of homosexuality.

Thanks to everyone ELSE, I am not being intolerant, but i will not sit ideally by and deal with people who think I should be oppressed and not of the same rights as everyone else. Those people can go to hell, whats worse is they are nice to me when they say "I dont support same sex marriage" but are so ignorant of what that actually means to my life.

I'm sorry for what you have had to endure. It is by no means fair or just or right that ANYONE should be judged for how they live or what they believe.....

[LaborIntensive]

Originally Posted by RTerroni

I'm going to have to disagree with you Webgoji, I strongly believe that everyone is born straight and those who become gay make that decision themselves.

You are an idiot. No one is born anything. I have known personally one child born a baby. But by age 4 to 5 was desiring to wear dresses and be treated as a girl. The parents tried in vain to change this and this kid by age 16 was so goofy about sexuality and who he was. He most likely had a sex change by now but it was obvious that he felt he was a girl. Your opinion is not science or any mthod thereof. If you disagree then find a conversation you side with and join in that chorus,

[sandersdillion948]

Why can't everyone be born gay and choose to be straight? that is how much logic is in that statement, RTerroni.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by sandersdillion948

@ RTerroni, At what age did you decide to be straight? Yes, I chose to be beat up in high school, harassed by coworkers and ostracized by some of my family, you are a fool if you believe that, it's only true in your head. You are the kind of person who has caused me a hell of a lot of problems and I would suggest you reconsider your ignorant view point on the subject of homosexuality.

Thanks to everyone ELSE, I am not being intolerant, but i will not sit ideally by and deal with people who think I should be oppressed and not of the same rights as everyone else. Those people can go to hell, whats worse is they are nice to me when they say "I dont support same sex marriage" but are so ignorant of what that actually means to my life.

I didn't everyone is born that way, I did make a choice to become Asexual after sex horrified me too much, although that being said I do still very much consider myself to be part of the Heterosexual group since I am still romantically attracted to the opposite sex, so I still never diverged from my natural path I just decided that I wasn't interested in sex itself, I very much consider myself to be a Hetero-asexual.

Just being a jerk like usual, so I guess I'll change my response to:

Do I have to tolerate someone who would like to see my oppressed?

No.
You have every right to speak out against what you view as oppressive, ignore it, tolerate it, treat it with humor, treat it with your own intolerance, pretty much however you want to deal with it.

Do understand, however, that there are different ways to deal with intolerance, ignorance and oppression. Sometimes the BEST thing to do is to cut someone off outright, or even ignore what they are saying.

Sometimes addressing it head-on, with compassion or humor, frustration or even explicit anger will best serve your purpose.

I probably depends on what message you want to send, if any, and what your goal is.

If I wanted to reduce stress in the short term, I would simply shut people down.

[Harley47]

So...I'm gonna say this as a general, nonspecific address in the interest of keeping the topic in line.

If we've nothing to contribute directly to the OP's situation, it serves nothing to post in this topic. A debate on the morality or "naturalness" or what-have-you of same sex marriage is a futile gesture in helping the OP, and if anything is completely detrimental. If there's a "debate" that must be had, I would suggest any parties involved make their own topic about it. But OP has come requesting advice in her own situation. Making the situation about your own moral/political/whatever views does nothing of help to the OP.

Just figured it'd be in the best interest to nip this in the bud. There's a time and a place. This isn't it.

You are right, and maybe add "don't insult people". Just generally.

[Harley47]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

You are right, and maybe add "don't insult people". Just generally.

A perfect addition that I neglected to throw in. Thank you.

Originally Posted by RTerroni

I didn't everyone is born that way, I did make a choice to become Asexual after sex horrified me too much, although that being said I do still very much consider myself to be part of the Heterosexual group since I am still romantically attracted to the opposite sex, so I still never diverged from my natural path I just decided that I wasn't interested in sex itself, I very much consider myself to be a Hetero-asexual.

You're not asexual just because you abstain from sex.

And in regards to marriage. It stupid that people get so bent up about it. It's basically a certificate saying you're together and you don't need a piece of paper for that.

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

And in regards to marriage. It stupid that people get so bent up about it. It's basically a certificate saying you're together and you don't need a piece of paper for that.

To clarify-
There are a lot of rights afforded to those who are legally married not afforded to those who can not claim the same legal status.

It appears not everyone is aware of that, so clarifying for those who are not.
This can involve children, property and estate rights, medical decisions and access, rights to spousal health care, end of life decision making, access to a hospitalized loved one, financial rights and how disputes are settled.

The list goes on and on.
Even when same sex couples explicitly and legally give, for example, power of attorney to each other, it can be overturned and ignored and is frequently.

Unless it is a legally recognized status, it can pretty much be disregarded in any situation. This actually happens more easily in emergency situations- where it is most imperative that the love of your life, the person you CHOOSE to involve in your most pertinent decisions, actually be given access.

I don't wish to speak for the OP, as I don't face the exact issues that they do.
I do have people I care about very deeply who have faced the exact situation I describe above and it was terribly heartbreaking.

[sandersdillion948]

I deserve to be happy just as anyone else does. I also deserve to be treated equally just as anyone else is. That "piece of paper" is key to reaching equality. Should I ever be ill enough and unable to make a life decision, that piece of paper will allow my partner to make that choice for me. I do not have sex, I have not had sex since 2010, but that does not make me any less gay or bisexual. While there are SOME woman who spark my interest, i primarily am attracted to men. I never could, as a child living with a very homophobic father who hated our gay neighbors, understand what the big issue was, this was before I even identified as gay. My mother was a religious catholic and very supportive of me, she has since passed away and my father has finally come around to realize that his hatred towards the gay community was based on his own fear and perception of how my life would be. In his words he was afraid I would not find happiness because people discriminate and dislike gay people for religious or political reason
Christians have oppressed my people for 2000 years, now polls are showing that the general american population have a more favorable attitude towards gay people than they do Christians and now Christians are in the midst of facing oppression and they very much dislike it. I don't want anyone to be oppressed, not gays, Christians, Muslims or poly relationships. I have beat my head against the wall for the past 3 years trying to argue and debate both the pastors at the church about this subject and if there is no-one more stubborn in the world, it seems to be that Christians are like a stubborn mule who refuses to move. I finally told the church what I though, in a nice way, and removed them all from my life to make a point. From now I am surrounding myself with positive people who are not brainwashed into thinking i am possessed by a gay daemon and on my path to hell. homophobes are so childish and need to grow up, it's annoying, anyone who thinks that is a choice simply says that because they have those feelings but chose not to act on them, they don't fool me.

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

To clarify-
There are a lot of rights afforded to those who are legally married not afforded to those who can not claim the same legal status.

It appears not everyone is aware of that, so clarifying for those who are not.
This can involve children, property and estate rights, medical decisions and access, rights to spousal health care, end of life decision making, access to a hospitalized loved one, financial rights and how disputes are settled.

The list goes on and on.
Even when same sex couples explicitly and legally give, for example, power of attorney to each other, it can be overturned and ignored and is frequently.

Unless it is a legally recognized status, it can pretty much be disregarded in any situation. This actually happens more easily in emergency situations- where it is most imperative that the love of your life, the person you CHOOSE to involve in your most pertinent decisions, actually be given access.

I don't wish to speak for the OP, as I don't face the exact issues that they do.
I do have people I care about very deeply who have faced the exact situation I describe above and it was terribly heartbreaking.

Don't forget a potential man trap, a good way of a man getting shafted by a woman in a divorce settlement. Not sure how that would work for same sex marriage.

Religious people aren't homophobes. Someone who is homophobic is afraid of gay people, they have a fear of them. Don't assume that just because someone doesn't approve of gay sex or marriage that that means they're homophobic.

[Rapunzel]

People who have those feelings and choose not to act on them are making a choice. That establishes that there is a choice to make. You feel how you feel. Your preferences are what they are. Beliefs are what they are also. I am a woman who is not attracted to men but I do believe that marriage is between a man and a woman so I have a choice to be in a relationship with a man (I was married for 20 years and I'm divorced and maybe this was part of the reason but not the only one), or I can be single. The other choice would be to go against my beliefs, and that is not a choice that I will make. What you feel is not really a choice. It is what it is. What you do is a choice.

I think that the only viable solution will be to separate religion and legal status. I feel strongly that marriage is a religious thing and people need to be free to follow what they believe God has intended marriage to be. But there should be a legal way to designate someone as part of your family or next of kin or dependent that includes all of the rights so that the person you want can make decisions as you designate, and so that everyone has the same access to health benefits, tax status, etc. There is no excuse for anyone to treat anyone else badly or to try to force another person to change who they are.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

You're not asexual just because you abstain from sex.

And in regards to marriage. It stupid that people get so bent up about it. It's basically a certificate saying you're together and you don't need a piece of paper for that.

True but people who abstain from it usually are interested in it but do so for other reasons (whatever they may be), I am personally not interested in it which is why I consider myself Asexual.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Religious people aren't homophobes. Someone who is homophobic is afraid of gay people, they have a fear of them. Don't assume that just because someone doesn't approve of gay sex or marriage that that means they're homophobic.

Couldn't have said it better, in a fact a good friend of mine is gay.