I fantasize about having an affair.

@StbGuy, did you even read my original post through? I am most certainly not in a sexual prison. You are perhaps confusing me with someone else.

While I was indeed quoting you, my post was also written for shakespeare's benefit, as this idea you have that it must be something he's not doing right or whatever happens to seem misguided to me, for the reasons I've stated. It's not personal, and I'm not mad at anyone! Don' be silly.

And I thought it worth noting that as sparingly as the word "should" is best used, incorporating it into a sentence about the entire female gender might be something you'd want to rethink! Keep on saying it if you like, it's no skin off my back. But bear in mind that what you've described is what you like in a woman; this doesn't by any stretch make it what women "should be." Carry on!

But, surely, when I'm saying "should be" free, "should be" uninhibited, "should be" loved, "should be" emotional, "should be" sensual, I'm saying all the great things that make a woman a woman, at least in my book, or am I sorely misinformed? I would have thought any woman would love to be free to be herself, to be free of inhibitions, especially in front of her own husband in the bedroom of all places, for goodness sake. What is this "should be" nonsense now that you are trying to pick an argument with me over now the whole time? I'm saying a woman "should be" a woman, a free woman. Do you like being controlled by a control freak of a husband who tells you even when and when not to come during sex? Is it nice being made to feel so ugly in your own skin that you tense up and shut down all channels of inner pleasure? If a woman cannot accept her female qualities, especially sexually, and express them without feeling like a dirty, ugly *****, especially in front of her own husband, then "Hello! Houston, we have a problem!" now don't we.

If there are women who are ashamed of being exactly that, i.e. WOMEN, then that's their problem. All I know is, those who are not full of nonsense and willing to be natural and sensual like a woman was designed to be by the Master Creator are getting all the satisfaction they want from their men, baby . If others want to miss out, that's their loss, not their husband's loss .

And if you READ what I am saying you will see that once again, I never referred to YOU being in a sexual prison, where did I ever say that? Sorry, but it really now just feels like you are picking words or phrases out of my posts and twisting it to try and attack me with it somehow. Forget it sister, you ain't gonna get it right with me!!!

You are now deliberately trying to misquote me, and doing to me exactly the same thing that a woman did to me on another website before, trying to paint me as some kind of bad guy or creep that hates women or something, by selectively quoting me and then twisting everything I say to portray me as some kind of misogynist. You don't even know me, why would you do that? Now my whole original point that I was trying to make to shakespeare is lost and diluted in this sea of diatribe already.

Stbguy-I don't think anyone is twisting your words, you might be having a hard time expressing what you mean but it sounds pretty clear. Ignorance is bliss I guess. And being ignorant isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maybe you were raised that way. Who knows. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that you think women fit into some kind of mold, and of course that mold is your prefs. There are some generalizations that are fairly accurate but using the words "should be?" You might as well say a woman "should be" in the kitchen. You did make your own self sound very ignorant about women. Maybe you should apologize for several reasons. But more importantly, we're all in here to try to help Shakespeare47, not place blame on him or his wife. We really don't know much about either of them so it's rude to make speculations here, though I know it's sometimes difficult or we don't mean to. And it's just plain rude to make a generalization about a person or group period.

Some people need to be told they're being rude. Accept it and move on. I'm aware that rudeness can be subjective but there are many clear cut instances of rudeness. Like wearing white to a wedding you've been invited to or asking a woman if she's pregnant when she's not, OR saying all women "should be" a certain way. And yes, I read your whole post but that's still what you said.

Now find some constructive info/advice for Shakespeare.

Oh my, I just read your numbered list. Looks to serve you more than anyone.

Let the beauty companies and plastic surgeons laugh all the way to the bank (which I doubt they do). I like my makeup, clothes and everything else. They all contribute to my individual style which I love. That's right. Women are individuals too. And if I don't fit in a guys mold of what a woman should be like, he doesn't deserve me (if I were unmarried).

What I don't understand is why you are all making this thread about YOUR problems with StbGuy? How is THAT helping Shakespeare? Hasn't this "hair pulling" contest gone on long enough? Can we get back to the subject of this thread now? I don't see how any of this dispute is helping him either!

What is all of this now? Never once did I say women must fit into a mould for goodness sake!!!

When I'm saying "should be" I'm mean AS NATURE INTENDED, or...geez I don't know HOW to explain it any clearer. I mean FREE, UNLIMITED, UNHINDERED, UNCONTROLLED, FREE, FREE, FREE....URGGH!!!!

What is this nonsense directed at me?!?!. I'm self-serving with my list? GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE!!!

I'm trying to help women realize that they are BEAUTIFUL innately, inherently, they don't need all this make up and stuff to look beautiful. You all seem to think men won't find you attractive unless you do ALL this stuff for hours a day. Where do you come on that? Who ever told you that?

If you like doing your make-up, well, great!!! I never said you shouldn't for goodness sake! If you like doing your hair, well, great!!! I never said you shouldn't do your hair. I understand these things are more emotional than guys would ever understand, that going to the hairdresser is more than just going to the hairdresser, sometimes the ladies chat, drink tea while waiting for hair to colour or dry or whatever, I get that. I understand putting on make up is not just putting on make up, you are taking your time to try and see how you can make yourself look your best, and it's satisfying when you look in the mirror and say "Yes, I've done a good job! I look great today".

I was never ever ever ever targeting any of you ladies who don't have a confidence problem (which is clear from the way you have no problem attacking me). I'm talking about the poor girl who tries her best and looks in the mirror and says to herself "I am ugly, no man wants me". The girl who's boyfriend says to her "Hey, you know what? When I have sex with you I fantasize about the *****s I see on the internet!!! How do you like that, huh?!" The poor girl who says to herself "If I don't look like a pornstar, my boyfriend will no longer love me", or "I don't know what to wear, I look fat/ugly in everything". Can't you see that people?

I read that thread by that girl that said her boyfriend fantasizes about other women when he has sex with her and the other girl that answered that she feels she can't compare to the girls her boyfriend watches on porn sites. I nearly started crying when I read that. It's the most heartbreaking thing I think I've ever heard. I have no doubt in my mind such actions lead a girl to think she is unworthy, ugly and unloved. How utterly terrible and sad.

This is what I am trying to say all along, and I actually did have advice for shakespeare. I don't know his wife and what she has been through before she met shakespeare even, nobody might know, it might be so embarrassing she doesn't want to share it, did anyone here even consider that, no, of course not, you're all too busy attacking me! I genuinely feel she has some issues of judgment on her/about her body/looks, and I NEVER EVER EVER EVER said anywhere that it was shakespeare's fault! People don't get married at 7 or 8 years old, we are individuals with a past long before we even think of meeting our significant other. We all have issues, and it's at the most intimate of times that these can suddenly appear, but not in a straightforward way obviously, it is shown in the form of maybe she not being able to orgasm for example. Dammit people, things aren't just black and white, and straightforward in every department of life! This stuff is complex and manifests in many different ways.

And, of course I may be wrong totally, I have no problem admitting that! For goodness sake, I've never even met his wife before, I don't know her from a bar of soap! Don't sit here and make me out to be some misogynist on an ego trip trying to run down women. It might have nothing to do with judgement issues at all and I'm fine with admitting that, of course I can be wrong, I don't know his wife like he does!

That brings me to another point, that's why I said HE should try and do something WITH her, nobody's blaming anybody or packing any fault on anyone. All it is, is there happens to be a problem, and the two lovers, by opening up to each other and working on it together, solve it together and grow stronger as a unit through it, it brings them closer in the end. Why is that so wrong of me to suggest that? Sounds to me like the perfect opportunity to bond and get closer and not only save the marriage, but make it so much better than before!

And, then you say my lists suck, or the advice I give shakespeare is personal preference. HE IS A MAN, LIKE ME!!! I wrote it for him!!! How can women read this and they call me all sorts of hideous things and judge me? I wrote it MAN-STYLE, a practical how-to type of thing FOR A MAN TO FOLLOW. If you get your noses out of the psycho-garbage psychology textbooks and observe people first hand, you would have noticed men are PRACTICALLY MINDED, how-to guides, 7-step guides, a 2-day guide, whatever, that's how WE understand stuff. I figured he needed some practical tips perhaps, so I gave it. And, boy, do I ever regret it now (Sorry shakespeare, not aimed at you of course, aimed at this diatribe going on above. If you ever want to chat with me, maybe it's safer for us to PM each other from now on Many hugs buddy, let me know how it goes with the wife ).

Did you end up getting divorced? I really don't want to get divorced.....

I am rather angry at her.... because she had a much different attitude about sex before we were married.... and I am really tired of the assertion that she just knows there is nothing to be done about it... that is patently false. The truth is she doesn't WANT to even try... anything that might help her change her attitude.

I tend to agree...

I haven't done anything, yet... haven't bought anything... haven't mentioned counseling...

I do want us to go back to couple's counseling. Where I will tell here that I'm tired of her asserting she CAN'T do anything.... and get her to see there things she could at least TRY if only she'd be willing.

Now that I think about it, I have a friend who ended his marriage (partly due to a lack of sexual relations, but not entirely) and she found out all too late that her inability to have an orgasm was something physical and that there was actually something her Dr could have done to help her. (the thing was, she was"dry" & sex wasso uncomfortable for her she just couldn't reach her climax) I remember her telling me how hard it was to bring herself to talk to him about it. Do you think there's a possibility of it being a physical problem? I'm just tossing around some thoughts here because I don't know the full situation like you do, of course.

Perhaps asking her if there was something that could improve the relationship, for both of you, if she be willing to explore with you.

If she is asserting that she cannot do change this then that is her truth. If you simply invalidate her belief and tell her you are right and she is wrong then you widening the gap vs building a bridge.

To me it sounds like you both care deeply, are both frustrated around the same issues, and would benefit from outside assistance - like a good relationship focused therapist. There is probably much more than just the big 'O' in play here even if that has become the focus.

I could also be very wrong since there is scant little information here on the board and you are real people.




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Pardon me sir but while you may not have intended to, you did indeed direct that comment squarely at me, as noted with indenting below, your post in its entirety. Believe me I've not the inclination to take things personally and especially that which is not directed right at me. I'd sooner eat nails than worry about such things.

And to the point of why anyone is taking issue with what StbGuy stated on this thread, I can only speak for myself when I say that I found his fully blaming the OP to be altogether counterproductive.

I'm shutting up now; unsubscribing and all. Clearly what I've had to say has elicited a rather distracting array of reaction. My apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonmoxie
"like a woman should be."

I don't understand why you are getting mad at me. I am agreeing with you. I mean it in the nicest possible way when I use that phrase. Like a woman should be, like she was made, naturally, free, uninhibited, open, emotional, sexual, sensual. I don't understand your beef with me. Are you saying you like being in a sexual prison, scared of orgasm, conforming to what people say, even if it's a lie? Why would it be good for any woman to feel dirty and ugly to such a degree she can't enjoy herself during sex?

No women came in here expecting , what was that? "a hair pulling contest. The guy doesn't have a filter. Read his signature. I'm not generalizing. I'm just saying that might be why.

StbGuy-I think I did say somewhere that I didn't think you were trying to be malicious. Maybe not those exact words. Anyway, you have to realize that women's issues are a very sensitive topic. I just think you have your opinion and that's just how the world works in your mind. I think it's your Asperger's, and I don't mean that in a bad way (my husband is also here in the forums and pointed that out, he's a computer tech with a BA in Psych; extremely intelligent guy) I'm Bipolar and I've been rapid-cycling for 3-5 years so I've annoyed more than a handful of people, unintentionally. I do apologize to you. Take care.

It sounds like you need to talk to your wife. When you say she was more into sex before you were married, do you mean she actually enjoyed sex before you were married, or that you talked about sex before you were married?

This is a difficult topic for a lot of people, especially for those who have been taught that sex is something dirty/wrong. If she has never experienced orgasm, it's likely that she doesn't have much experience exploring her own body and that's where this needs to start. She probably won't be comfortable experimenting with you until she has some experience exploring herself and being comfortable with her own body. Of course, she has to decide to go down this road. You can express to her that you love her, and that you think this is important for your marriage, but try to keep the pressure off. Don't tell her that you're considering an affair because your sex life isn't what you want it to be. Tell her that you want your marriage to flourish and that you think the two of you can become closer sexually. Also, let her know that you want to be supportive and that you will take things at whatever pace she needs.

Shakespeare47,
My husband and I have been together for 11 years. In the beginning, we couldn't stay away from eachother. Around 3 1/2 years, we got married. We didn't even have sex the night of our wedding (it was me, not him, I think I was just trying go let the fact that I was married set in) and once on our honeymoon in Hawaii. He took me to London and Paris at 6 years, no sex the entire time, although we did a lot and I was ecstatic to be there with him. Our daughter was born at almost exactly 7 years. Since then (until the past two weeks), I hated it when he touched me. I didn't feel I was attracted to him anymore and I didn't feel I was attractive to him either. I told him this a couple weeks ago and he said he wants to "jump my bones" every single day from the time he first sees me until we go to bed. I sort of snapped out of it (I should say that before, we did have sex but I wasn't into it, I just wanted him to hurry up and get it over with. Then it just stopped and we hadn't had sex in almost a year) and we've been having the best sex of our lives for the past 2 weeks. I even bought lingerie which is something I hated our entire relationship and now I want a collection.

My point is, maybe she doesn't remember what it was like in the beginning. I bet she truly wanted to be a sexual person when you first met. It could have been her mother that put it in her head that sex is meant for procreation or it could be that she went through some childhood trauma that she hasn't told you about because it's too painful to talk about. Or it could be low self-esteem that makes her feel inhibited. And as much as it hurts, maybe she just isn't attracted right now. But I promise you can get back there if you approach it the right way.

Maybe books won't work, if you don't think they would then try something else. I know I have my sis a book when she was making bad choices and she was offended (it was 10 Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives or something like that). She threw it away. Maybe if you do get any books, put them in a conspicuous place and tell her you got them so you can learn to make her feel better during sex. Maybe she'll pick one up. I worked in the self-help section at BN for years.

Did you say you were raised Christian? Was your wife? I was but I became atheist around the age of 12. My best friend was born into and raised in a Mormon fam and her dad was the Bishop. She's been agnostic since she met me (her dad isn't my biggest fan, lol). But she overcame her upbringing. People who say they don't want to push they're religion on anyone unfortunately don't include their kids in that, like my Pentecostal church where my grandpa was a minister.

But please don't be mad at her. (I think you said you were starting to get mad at her, could have been another post). I would use my husband's laptop but he's working and mine is broken. Anywho, please just have a serious sit down heart to heart with her. The fact that you're torn between an affair and working it out tells me you love this woman very much. It would kill her if you had an affair and found out but she could also very well divorce you, then all this was for nothing.

Even if you go to see a therapist with her, you'll probably have to tell her why, but then again, she might refuse to go if you tell her why.

Ugh, so many variables. But I do understand your frustration.

Maybe she could go to therapy alone first?

It could be as simple as she doesn't know how to have an orgasm or there's too much pressure and she's too embarrassed and if a woman has never experienced an orgasm then she feels she's not missing anything.

Hang in there. Just pay attention to some of the things she does like does she pulled away if you try to touch her, even just for a kiss. Does it seem like she's in a hurry to get sex over with?

I wish I could help you more. I feel that sex is a very important part of a relationship and you have to be on the same page sexually, maybe not all the time, but in general.

Guys, I'm sorry, I'd like to apologize for things getting way out of hand, way more than I ever intended .

To Vonmoxie and Newbie12: I apologize to you guys specifically. Please, can you guys perhaps forgive me? The last thing I want is anyone leaving PC. We are all here for help and to get support for our problems, but I guess, sometimes I abuse the privilege . And, you guys can't leave just because of some stupid comments from an a**hole like me , no, you guys are stronger than that and what you give yourself credit for .

I think my posts being so long and my misinterpretation of the OP's original question may have led to my posts being unclear and an unintended meaning had arisen out of it. I fully accept that I am wrong on this occasion, probably in terms of shakespeare's original issue too.

Perhaps my expression of the natural beauty I feel women possess was not entirely appropriate here and has sparked feelings or struck a chord/nerve with people unintentionally , but, if there is only one thing I would like for women to take out of this (which I fear may have got completely lost) is I think you guys are a lot more beautiful then your give yourself credit for (I'm speaking to women in general here now), and I should have said "natural" instead of "should be" - I really screwed that up with my word choice . I apologize.

As for a filter, yeah, you guys are so right. I guess I really am a social retard and a moron when it comes to other people's feelings. I can never seem to say the right things. I do mean well, but it doesn't show necessarily. I am trying to work on that, but I suppose it'll never come right probably until the day I die, IDK.

So sorry guys, it was never my intention to hurt anyone or label anyone. I hope you can forgive me. Please don't leave on my account, I am a lowlife and my opinions are insignificant. I'm really sorry.

Thanks, everyone for your responses...
To sum it up for everyone... I love my wife... I don't want a divorce.... but, I'm frustrated because I must initiate sex... always... and when we do have sex.. she is not very responsive..and she makes it obvious that she just wants the act over... the sooner the better. . I have tried talking to her about it on numerous occasion... and when I do.. she shuts me down and tells me that there is nothing that she can do about it. We did have a good time when we were first married.... it's not like she has always had a bad attitude towards sex.

I've also told her I wish she could try to have an orgasm (this is actually a separate issue... I don't expect her to have an orgasm during the sex act.... I just wish we could do what it takes to help her enjoy an orgasm... as she has never had one). Her attitude has been that having an orgasm is something that dirty girls do. But, I have to admit we did try together at least twice..... I'm tempted to buy a vibrator to see if that might help..

As I mentioned.... I'm frustrated because whenever I bring up her lack of desire ( for sex).. she ALWAYS tells me there is nothing she can do..... Despite the fact she knows there are books she could read... doctors she could talk to... therapists she could talk to....... she just refuses... to consider any of these possibilities.

She also tells stories and appears to have the attitude that for a man to want sex more than a woman is a bad thing... and that it is a bad thing for a man to want the woman in his life to have an orgasm..... She has villified me over similar issues in our marriage in the past... to such an extent that she tries to get her friends "on her side" and get mad at me for her.. and of course... her friends don't know the entire story....

So, I'm at the point now, that I'm going to suggest we see a therapist together and talk about these issues... Because I am tired of it... and I want something to change.

When she says "there's nothing she can do about it," she actually feels that way. I've used those exact words.

Be prepared to potentially go to a few therapists before you find one that all three of you can talk to. Some are A-holes. Some you won't mesh with. I think you guys need to go but it's probably going to take a long time. Can you just straight ask her why she thinks she can't?

Oh and it's very common for women to not be able to orgasm during sex. That's not something they teach women in sex education. It's probably frustrating to her too.

And for you StbGuy,

Don't say that about yourself. I wasn't saying any of the stuff you said about yourself. I'm Bipolar and I've cheated on my husband twice because of it and I don't feel guilty anymore because my husband said he doesn't blame me.

Our illnesses don't define us. Take it easy on yourself dude.