[Irine]

-about girls who are easily convinced to sleep with you?

second q?

- how do you feel about girls who are HARD to get?
when i had a boyfriend, i let him kiss me only after a month we were going out... is it ocnsidered as "hard to get"?

[bebop]

I say it is keeping your self respect. wish more of us women were like that! you go girl!

first question:

slut.

but then think about how it goes for guys:

stud.

spot the double standard?

second question:

i've heard 'hold out'.

but then...

it isn't about what other people say about you so much as how you feel about yourself - isn't it?

and anybody who is going to be calling you names and disrespecting you (one way or the other) isn't really worth it surely...

(for what it is worth)

Grrrr double standards.

[LMo]

ok, granted, I am not a man, but I don't agree with the 'self-respect' part, bebop.

I didn't wait a month before kissing my husband and I have plenty of self-respect.

I wouldn't want to perpetuate the double-standard and the stereotype by judging women who 'wait' as being better than those who don't.

Just my 2c

I'll bow out now, and leave the rest of the answering to the guys...

i'll post just one more and then i'll bow out...

i guess i just wanted to say that maybe... how guys respond 'in general' really isn't as important as how your guy responds. because maybe you aren't really so interested in how guys think 'in general' so much as you are interested in what your guy thinks of you?

i've heard it said that it is much harder to respect someone who doesn't have self-respect. i try and respect everyone, but i do get that there is some truth to this. i think that what it is about is assessing what seems right to you. sometimes that involves learning the hard way (waiting longer than was right for you, not waiting until it was right for you). i think there might well be some truth to the notion that it is better to wait too long than not wait long enough (with respect to harm to self).

but maybe you really are interested in general opinion...

it will be interesting to hear what the guys have to say

[Raynaadi]

Alexandra_K!

K, enough outta me. Guys?

[therealme]

before i write anything, i just want you all to know that these are not my views.......... they are the views of some of my old friends (now gone away) i will try to word it as they might of worded it ..............but please dont shoot the messenger

girls who are easily convinced to sleep with you?
(views of others not me) wahey easy lay OR slapper

girls who are HARD to get? (again views of others not me) tight OR fridge-ed (snow queen)

i would just like to point out that those views are from the same old friends that stopped coming around when i became ill, the same friends who would rather walk the other way rather then speak to or be seen with anyone with a mental health problem, so when i say "old friends" what i mean is people who have let me down the most.

(((((((((((((therealme)))))))))))

damned if you do and damned if you don't...

(i guess the notion is that a girl should put out for them and nobody else. if a girl doesn't put out for them then she is a 'hold-out' or is 'frigid'. if a girl puts out for others - as well as them - then she is a 'slut' or a 'pro' or whatever)

(female exclusivity is important to guys - evolutionary explanation seems relevant here where a guy doesn't want to spend scarce resources on raising another mans child. a lot of research has been done on 'female promiscuity' - why 'promiscuity'? - , however, and in a lot of the animals we thought were in an exclusive mating pair the females went on a 'best genes' hunt when the male was out of sight ;-). makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. the males that are the best providers might well not be the males that are most virile. the best strategy is for the provider male to think you are faithful so he provides resources but to go on a best genes hunt when he isn't looking. there is some stuff on the function of 'romantic love' being to motivate adultery (rather than long term pair bond) as the cost of being found out is high (could get beaten up and / or exiled).

but in these days of birth control and with our developed frontal lobes etc etc... we have the capacity to transcend our evolutionary selected urges...

i do think this stuff is rather cool though ;-)

(i know i promised to shut up... but i'm not preventing others from posting so... oh well)

well i'm a woman and i say way to go therealme. no-one has the right to judge anyone else.

love, jinnyann xxxx

[bebop]

lmo I didn't mean to imply that women that kiss on a first date or whatever had no self respect. not really sure how to word it without sounding bad. maybe self respect was the wrong way to put how I was feeling about it but I do think women in general tend to jump in bed much too soon, I have done it myself. I applaud the poster for her values.

[Rhapsody]

I understand what you are say bebop..... society tends to look down on females that sleep with a man on the first date.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

society tends to condone the exploitation of animals - but that doesn't mean that it is right (morality comes apart from what society does or does not condone).

it might be the case as an empirical matter of fact that only girls who disrespect themselves sleep with a guy on a first date... but then again, it might not.

i guess it is up to every individual to find out what is right for them.

it is hard with the mixed messages about what is right for people, or the authoritarian messages about what is right for everyone. it can be hard to find out what is right for you. i guess that generally speaking learning involves a trial and error process. i don't see why this should be any different (unless one opts out of the learning and goes with the brute stipulation of what is right for everyone).

Who is 'society' anyway?

And, this seems to be about setting personal boundaries and getting needs met. Sometimes those needs make maintaining boundaries very hard, and add alcohol to the mix and those boundaries can nearly disappear, at least temporarily while the needs are being met.

I don't think 'society' knows (or shoud know) who's sleeping with whom and when. There are other measures of responsibility that are more evident and that are socially acceptable/not acceptable.

Someone who judges another person harshly because they have "gotten them' to sleep with them easily isn't, in my opinion, a candidate for judgeship.

Who is 'society' anyway?

And, this seems to be about setting personal boundaries and getting needs met. Sometimes those needs make maintaining boundaries very hard, and add alcohol to the mix and those boundaries can nearly disappear, at least temporarily while the needs are being met.

I don't think 'society' knows (or shoud know) who's sleeping with whom and when. There are other measures of responsibility that are more evident and that are socially acceptable/not acceptable.

Someone who judges another person harshly because they have "gotten them' to sleep with them easily isn't, in my opinion, a candidate for judgeship.

[Maven]

Just peeping in...

I want to say, LMo, I completely agree. Just because a woman kisses or has sex on the first date doesn't mean she doesn't have a lot of self-respect.

I'm also sick of the double-standard. I don't encourage one to be promiscuous (especially with the diseases out there), but I don't think promiscuous people (male and female) are "bad" or should be changed. I wouldn't avoid friendship wiht someone based on their sexual activity, unless they were having sex with my guy.

[cajun]

I am a guy. I don't throw stones, but some do. I will use a movie quote that I think is appropriate. "Why is it that men always feel compelled to chase the ones that run away? Immaturity!?" I think that in youth, It doesn't matter as much. As an adult entering into a life long bond, it matters alot. Before such a commitment, men want to know that there will be no regrets, and that they are THE special one. I think men are more cautious than women about entering life long Relationships.

[Raynaadi]

Cajun, glad you posted here!

Just a reminder ladies, this question was directed to the men on the boards. Lets try not to get off topic here.

Thanks,
Rayna

[Rhapsody]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Raynaadi said:
Just a reminder ladies, this question was directed to the men on the boards. Lets try not to get off topic here.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Ok - I asked a few males in RL, and this was their answers (almost the same).... down to the T.

While a lot of guys will try to get into a girls pants and will go for it if given permission to do so..... most guys would prefer that females did not give in so easily - for while guys do like and want sex they do not necessarily want a girl that will give it up so fast, even though a lot of guys will try.
When it comes right down to it a guy wants a girl-friend that has held out for a while (kinda like a test), and yet they will not usually pass up a casual one night stand or a short term dating partner that is willing to give it up.

In the End....... it is really just Nature vs. Human and Nature will always want to win if given the right of way.

NOW!! - Please do NOT jump on ME for this reply for it came from 3 different guys, not me.... ages of the men: 22, 35, 42.



LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[Raynaadi]

Thanks Rhapsody!!!!!!!! I didn't think to ask some men I know. Hmmm. Next time my guy friend is online, I'll ask him.

This is really helpful btw. Thanks for the topic!

[Raynaadi]

On the Tyra Banks show today, they interviewed men about promiscuous girls. And the majority of the men interviewed said they like a girl who waits. It reinforces to the GUY that the GIRL isn't just using him.....so it sounds like they have the same fear we do. The guys said they like a girl who respects herself, and it also keeps the thrill of the chase alive. So there were some interesting comments from these guys. They also said they wouldn't want to date a promiscuous girl and be at the mall with her and run into her past partners. I know promiscuity is different then sleeping on the first date, but the general opinion of the guys on the show say they like a girl who waits.

might be helpful at this point to consider that answers from males are just as likely to be as diverse as the answers from females...

[Raynaadi]

True, however to keep on topic of the original poster, we should really stay along the lines of what the men say.

[Maven]

I already knew what men say...I've read and heard from men on this topic since I was a kid. Nevertheless, that doesn't make it right, and women shouldn't let "what men do" decide their self-worth based on their own behaviors. It's wrong for men and women to think a woman is less, or a slut, because she engages in sexual activity "too early" (which is defined by each individual), especially when they're not judging men the same way. If you sleep with a man on the first date--and I'm not saying that's a good idea--and the man rejects you, you shouldn't judge yourself harshly because of what he does. Some people are cruel and judge people wrongly.

[therealme]

before i posted about how my so called old friends would answer ,
now its my view.
i think women that jump into bed on the first date (or even second) are hunting for love , and feel the only way they can get that love is to give up thierselves on the first or second date. the fear of rejection may also be a factor , also they may think they look ugly and they have to try to grab a man / woman and hold on tight.

women that dont give themselves to a man / woman on the first or second dates.... i think that these women are happy with themselves and the way they look. a woman that doesnt sleep with someone on an early date, is worth pursuing . the only problem i can see with this is..... when a man / woman has waited and dated a woman like this, the moment they have sleep with them,
the woman may still be on thier own !!!!!!!!