what do YOU MEN say?

Some women are hunting for love, some aren't. I know women who have had sex on the first date or one-night stands with no regrets. Some have ended up in long-term relationships or even marriage with the guys they slept with early.

Having sex sooner or later in a relationship doesn't define one's self-esteem. Some women with very high self-esteem and sexual confidence don't feel the need to worry what others will think and enjoy sex on their own terms.

That said, most women who sleep with a guy right away are often seeking love or more commitment. At least, that's my experience in what I've seen and read. Those women should seek help in dealing with whatever it is that makes them feel the need to attach themselves to a man (or woman) so soon.

Why aren't men judged like this? If he sleeps with a woman who, according to many, has issues and needs a relationship, then isn't he lousy for taking advantage of such a person? And why isn't he a "slut" or suffering from low self-esteem? Why is his value not affected in society?

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Maven said:
Having sex sooner or later in a relationship doesn't define one's self-esteem.

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I agree with that statement, no matter if it is a male or a female........ yet I think what we have found (based on the original topic) is that many guys find this behavior of sleeping with them on the first date as a defining moment in the area of having RESPECT (or not) for a female.

Now having said that - I too will say that it is not right for a male to try so hard to get his date into bed and then judge her so harshly on it.... test or no test - it is WRONG!!

LoVe,
Rhapsody -


P.S.

That would be like me sending a drop dead gorgeous female to flirt with my husband / BF to find out if I can really trust him or not.......... and the test would be for her to get naked in front of him and try to seduce him into bed - if he goes (he has lost my respect and the relationship is over) if he does not go then I know I can trust him, and life goes on as normal............. or does it?

i just wanted to know what people think.
i AGREE however, that women mustn`t wait a month to be RESPECTED ! no! and i am NOT judgin any1.

i was raized that way that a girl should be hard to get and that-it`s a challenge for the man.
if a man has no hallenge in the golr then he loses interest.
i wanted to know from the men`s side to see if this statment is a TRUE one...

it`s os not going to cahnge my behavior. it`s just to know.
i do what feels comfortable for me.
i agree that i don`t need any men to tell me if i am respected-i actualy respect myself.
i was raized in a tradiitonaly religious house and i am traditional myself-with even ortodoxal POV.

but what i know also-a woman who dresses like a slut and goes out and wants men to stare at her-THINKS
"what the man will think of me? how i make him like me?"
she is not being her real self. a real women is modest. a woman who has enough self respect. esteem adn confidence. that`s what i persoanlly believe.
but i try hard NOT to judge girls who chose to be "cheap"
it si their decission and their right.

Wow Rhapsody.....I think if I was in a relationship with someone who I felt I had to "tempt" to test his faithfulness, I'd have to leave or have a serious talk with him. For me, if I had to do something that drastic to get the truth, I couldn't stay. Try flipping the situation....how would you feel if he put a hot naked guy in front of you to test you?

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Raynaadi said:
Wow Rhapsody.....I think if I was in a relationship with someone who I felt I had to "tempt" to test his faithfulness, I'd have to leave or have a serious talk with him. For me, if I had to do something that drastic to get the truth, I couldn't stay. Try flipping the situation....how would you feel if he put a hot naked guy in front of you to test you?

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LOL - I did not say that I would do that...................... I was just giving an equal situation similar to what guys are doing to females when they try to get them into bed on the first date (the test) and then judge them for it.

BTW - the only man I ever had sex intercourse with - I MARRIED!!!

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

OOOOH!!!!! LOL, I get it. Phew......haha!

BTW - the only man I ever had sex intercourse with - I MARRIED!!!

Holy cow Rhap! Good for you!

LadyM, you're entitled to your opinions, but I want to say I respectfully disagree that a woman who dresses sexy has no respect for herself. I think we're conditioned to judge this way, but I think a woman can genuinely like her body and like sex and feel comfortable showing it off. That said, I do think most women who dress too sexy (and "too sexy" is defined differently by different people) do have low self-esteem and are seeking attention. I don't think people who are "seeking attention" should be ignored, as you often hear about children ("She's just looking for attention!"), because even if she's going about it the wrong way, maybe there's a good reason she has this need. But that's an aside. The reason I think most women who dress very provocatively and jump into bed quickly have low self-esteem, is simply because of people I've known, things I've read, and things I've seen. Again, I don't think it's true of all women, but I think it's true of most. I don't see a woman dressed sexy and automatically think, "That girl has no self esteem." Most girls and women (even those who dress modestly) don't like how they look. A study quoted by Dove (I don't recall if they did it, or someone else did it) said that only 2% of women call themselves pretty. Look at the ads, the media, the movies, the TV shows, and merchandise aimed at girls and women. We're told we all have to look a certain way, or we're not as good as others.

I also don't like the word "slut," because men aren't judged with such harshness as women. Calling a man a slut doesn't really have the same effect, and society needs to view men and women equally, so while a few people being of the mind that men are just as bad (or not bad) for sleeping with a woman on the first date as the woman, we need to get society to accept that, or women will continue to be judged and sometimes lose out on opportunities because of these judgements. Men can sleep around and they get treated just fine, even called "studs" and "players," and women are just sluts. They're shut out of groups, whereas the men are still welcome.

^ yes i agree about the men hting. they are not treated like us. and we as a society are used to thinking so.

when i said that a woman who dressed like i don`t know what....i was saying she is thinking about te MAN hwo would look at her.
seems rare that women dress like that just because they like the way the look..... we women like making show offs..
AND SOME LIKE it more and some less.
but WHEN we are trying to make a show off we think others think of us and if we are YOUSED too mych to this there is a "disconneciton" or...how to explain it... you try to "be cool and beautiful" more than being YOURSELF.
now, i don`t say such women always have no self esteem! no! i say that we are sued to try to look so that others will like us. and sometimes we forget how unique we can be.

but BACK TO THE TOPIC
what i wanted was to TEST the men
see what THEY THINK AND FEEL ABOUTwomen who are like that.

i wanted to see if that was true. that`s why i posted this thread

It depends.
If he wants sex and she wants sex I guess than that it is perfectly normal thing that they have sex.
But generally speaking, something that is easy aka doesn't require effort isn't very interesting. Girls that are "hard to get" generally are more interesting because they require effort. Men that are more passive in nature, tend to seek these women, since they feel moved by them. Key is timing and real drive on both sides. What is the true motif to play hard or easy is the key question.

BTW - the only man I ever had sex intercourse with - I MARRIED!!!

hey Rap-that`s great. i wish it was my case!

"Girls that are "hard to get" generally are more interesting because they require effort"

yes taht`s what i was taugh as a teen and once i used to behave that way
but it was not only sexually, it was also the CALL thing..
i didn`t call him at all the first 2 month. heck he had to make an effort! i used only to unswer his calls and sms he sent me everyday then-i know it`s effect. but what REALLY doesn this give?

i hiope next time just to BE MYSELF and not to make such effort.

A lady can be sexy without having to show her body. Often, the mystery is more.

Of course. But there's no shame in liking to show your body, either. Just be sure you're aware of the message you're sending to the person(s) you're trying to "speak" to. Of course, some of the judgements made about others are wrong, and shouldn't determine how you see yourself. Society needs to be changed in some cases, although that's not always easy to achieve.

is this about the

'if she wears that she is asking to be raped' line of reasoning???

Quick Reply - to one in particular.

......................................... one can dress to look gooooood (or) sexy with out looking smutty.

I love you all , easy and hard. If someone waited a month to kiss me i would be feeling long before that that she has no interest.

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heyjoe said:
I love you all , easy and hard. If someone waited a month to kiss me i would be feeling long before that that she has no interest.

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Yes I agree............. ............ but now lets face it - having sex with some one is a lot different than kissing them.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Yeah, but "smutty" is an extremely subjective opinion. I would guess that 99% of women who dress "smutty" think they're just doing a good job dressing "sexy".

And for those of us who dress "tastefully"... those in the fashion industry roll their eyes at our lack of taste. Have you ever seen the "scrunchy" episode of Sex in the City? That comes to mind.

"Smutty" is in the eye of the beholder.

From the men I know, they don't want women who dress "barely." Of course, I'm talking about clean-cut, hard working professional men. They also say that they fully respect any lady who doesn't even kiss on the first few dates!

Now, for me, I guess it's the type of person I'm looking for...that person I represent to them... that's how I act and dress anyway. I get the correct response from the men this way.

Perhaps it's what you're trolling for that determines the kind of bait you use?

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alexandra_k said:
is this about the

'if she wears that she is asking to be raped' line of reasoning???

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Not at all. What I said has nothing to do with rape. What I meant was, if you dress provocatively, don't be surprised if men hit on you more. This is not because "you deserve it," or you're intentionally trying to tell these guys you want sex. What I'm saying is, our society is such that men think women who dress sexually want sex, and feel more comfortable to approach them. It should not be this way; people should know that dressing a certain way doesn't mean you're seeking a specific type of relationship.

In no way am I talking about a man thinking he has a right to force a woman (or man) into sex. That's another issue from what I'm saying here.

But back to the subject of how people view how you dress, and how hypocritical it is. Women who dress to emphasize their bodies are seen as "sluts"...even if they're not. I'm not saying change the way you dress, because I don't think you're wrong. I'm saying, Just be aware of how society views you, so you can be prepared. I think being prepared means being able to speak up and tell these jerks who judge you that their interpretation of why you dress this way or what they think you want is a) wrong, and b) none of their business. Most people still see a man in a business suit and think he's a more honest man than the guy wearing a leather jacket and torn jeans.

I hope that's more clear.

I hope this isn't presumptuous, but from what I know about Maven and Alexandra, I'd say you both are probably on the same page about this.

I think that a lot of women who dress provocatively do so because they are misguided about how society interprets it.

Good example about the guy in the business suit, btw.

Good post in general, Maven, as always.

I just remembered a stand-up skit that a comedian did - I think it might have been Dave Chappelle (although generally, I don't care for his humor so I don't know why I would have seen this). It was something along these lines:
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What if I got a policeman's uniform and went around wearing it. Then someone got mugged and they ran up to me going, "Go chase that dude! He robbed me! Help me!"

I would say, "What? You thought I was a policeman?! That's crazy! I'm just wearing CLOTHES! CLOTHES don't make me a policeman!"

If you don't want us to think you're a hooker, ladies, don't wear the uniform.
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I don't remember how it went exactly, but it seems like an appropriate anecdote in this thread. While it is the exact OPPOSITE principle as mine, he does make an interesting point.

in response to the original questions

-about girls who are easily convinced to sleep with you?

it all depends, there’s easy, and then there’s easy, it doesn’t matter if they are dressed to the nines or mutton dressed has lamb if they want to sleep with you on the first date they will, if they don’t they wont,

when I first met my ex-wife we didn’t sleep together for a month, yet we saw each other everyday, spent most of the day together, and she brought me coffee in bed every morning to wake me up, granted we were both hospitalised, under section, but when we both got released the same day, the first thing we did was buy a carton of smokes and a box of condoms and the rest is history.

second q?

- how do you feel about girls who are HARD to get?

in one respect I like a challenge is the best way I can put this forward without sounding crass, I don’t always put out on the first date or even the second, im not playing hard to get, I just like to know what I am getting myself into first so to judge someone because they don’t put out on the first date is not a good idea has I do it myself.

Thanks, LMo. I've heard that skit, too, but I think it was Chris Rock.

Edit: Actually, I think you're right. I'm not a big fan of Dave Chappelle, either, but the more I think about it, I think it was he who did that skit.