What's the Big Deal About Transgender Restroom Policies?

I admit upfront that I'm a liberal. I'm cisgender myself, but I eagerly stand for equal rights for all LGBT people because it feels like the RIGHT thing to do. Nobody deserves discrimination based on something so personal as their gender identity or sexual orientation, just like nobody deserves discrimination based on skin color. I firmly believe this.

Seriously, though, what is the big deal about allowing transgender people to use the restroom associated with their gender identity? I cannot for the life of me understand why so many people are riled up about this, like the morons calling for a boycott of Target because of their gender identity restroom policy. Yes: there are perverts, molesters and rapists out there; it's a terrible, sad fact of life which nonetheless is not likely to change any time soon. But what conservatives fail to understand is that there are just as many cisgender perverts as transgender perverts, if not more. Why are people so quick to judge and label anyone who doesn't identify with their biological gender as a pervert? Why are they making it all about sex crimes, when it's really about letting people be who they truly are? People act like allowing a transgender woman to use the women's bathroom poses a grave threat to women and girls -- Why? How? If YOU were forced to use the opposite gender's bathroom for whatever reason, would that automatically turn you into a maniacal rapist or molester? Are our morals so easily upended?

Plus, the vast majority of public restrooms, at least here in the USA, have stalls. There is privacy even within the bathrooms themselves, so it's not like we're suddenly going to be exposing our precious children to the genitals of the opposite sex -- at least not any moreso than already happens with cisgender perverts in their own bathrooms! Where is the harm in allowing someone who identifies with a certain gender to use that gender's restrooms? There seems to be a woeful misconception that all transgender people must be perverts, when that is demonstrably not the case. I don't understand at all. Maybe it's just another excuse for small-minded people to hate each other. I just can't abide all the hate.

I honestly don't know why people are so up in arms about such a basic right. A person has the right to use a public restroom, do they not? It's only proper to allow them to go and use one. To deny them the right to use said restroom is downright inhumane and breaks all kinds of civil rights. Are we really going back to the days when black people and white people were segregated in every aspect of their lives, including restroom use?

I am glad North Carolina is losing all kinds of business left and right. I hope the damn idiots that snuck that HB2 into law get pressured into changing their evil, bigoted ways and going the route of Indiana. Such discrimination is nothing short of criminal.

Also, the whole "bathroom predator" thing is just a myth. Have a look see: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...f=queer-voices

It's basically a scare tactic used by conservative bigots so they have an "excuse" to discriminated without being legally penalized for it.

Someone said it good on FB. you have a penis you use the men's bathroom, you have a vagina you use the women's. If transgender goes through the complete change then they have become the opposite sex.

The problem is that it opens the door (pun intended) for all kinds of idiots to to bad things like the SUPPOSED transgender guy in the Antelope Valley mall who went into the women's restroom dressed as a woman & set up a camera to get his/her jollies. I'm sorry but there are enough opportunities for creeps to do creepy things we don't have to open more doors for them.

Those people protecting women's privacy rights AREN'T bigots. I'm sure that it could possibly be a privacy issue with the men too but one hears a lot less about situations like that.

Yes it does happen & it's not JUST a conservative bigot myth.http://theavtimes.com/2013/05/14/pal...mens-bathroom/

If it only were so simple as penis in the men's room, vaginas in the lady's...

Gender is actually very fluid, and is actually more so a spectrum than anything else. One can be either all the way male, physically, or on the opposite spectrum, be all the way female physically, but that leaves a whole whopping area in between. Gender is far more fluid and dynamic than just male/female.

For example, what if an individual had begun hormone injections to start the transition to the gender they aren't physically. They act, dress and ARE essentially that gender, save for the physical genitals. They shouldn't be forced to go into a restroom that is exclusive to a gender they aren't identifying with.

To relegate a complex spectrum of gender identity to two extremes of masculine and feminine is a bit naive, TBH, and what is getting us into this whole mess. Even Wikipedia says that there are multiple ways of identifying when being Genderqueer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer

Let them be free to pee!!!

Okay this creep argument is not a good one. Creeps will always do their way, but to put transgender women and other genders in danger because some cis dudes are crapp .. thats illogical There are 0 (zero) reports on trans women attacking other women in bathrooms. However, a majority of transgender people report that they have experienced harassment. http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.ed...-June-2013.pdf Also, the suicide calls from transgender and gender nonconforming people have doubled since the bill came out. After North Carolina?s Law, Trans Suicide Hotline Calls Double - The Daily Beast So no. I don't think you can blame a group for something another group does.

Thanks for that enlightening post Pflaumenkeks. I didn't know that trans suicide hotline calls had doubled in NC alone since HB2 was passed. That's tragic.

What I don't get is why businesses use men/women signs if there's only one toilet in the bathroom!? I use the men's bathroom all the time when I really have to go and someone is in the women's bathroom. Urinals don't bother me.

I am all for co-ed bathrooms and sharing it with the opposite sex. Women can be malicious predators as well.

Yeah that's my thing too. I don't understand why we even need separate bathrooms for different genders anymore, as long as they have stalls. Seems like we just need to get rid of the segregation entirely, then this wouldn't be an issue. I mean unfortunately there are going to be predators no matter what!

+1 on the idea of a unisex bathroom. Yes, perverts and predators will exist no matter what you do, and you really shouldn't let the fear of them dictate what toilet to use. A toilet is a toilet is a toilet, IMHO.

A friend of mine on the opposing side of this issue recently posted this thought-provoking article on Facebook. I thought I'd share it here, as it's obviously quite relevant to my question, and did make me think. Trigger warning: it discusses a case of childhood molestation/rape.

I still disagree with the premise. Instead of asking "What if just one little girl gets hurt by this?" IMO she should be asking "How many transgender or genderqueer people have already been hurt?" There are going to be predators either way; we can at least dispense with the discrimination.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one? Hmm. Deep stuff to think about, really.

We aren't even asking how many abused in childhood or even in adulthood by abuse, molestation or rape (rape is not just limited to childhood) would be farther traumatized by this change. It's like they aren't even being considered in this issue. Don't they count or do they only count after the change is FORCED on them?

From the numbers here on PC, it seems that the number of abused far outnumbers the number of REAL transgender people out there in the world.

How do you propose doing away with discrimination on either side. Having one bathroom for every possible person who could be traumatized? Would that demand even be possible?

Eskie, I'm not saying that rape and molestation victims don't have value, or a say, it's just that the victims of so much social injustice and bigotry are being denied the very simple and very basic right to use a public restroom they feel they should have access to. You're not a transgender individual, so you can't possibly understand the struggles they face just to have the same rights as the non transgendered. I mean, is it really asking too much to be able to pee without feeling awkward, out of place, and socially isolated?

You're essentially pitting rape/molestation victims against the transgendered community and quite frankly, that's not fair. So much more violence and hatred and suicide happens against the transgendered community than ever did happen to the rape/molestation victims.

And what do you mean, exactly by "REAL transgendered people"? I mean, how, and quite frankly WHY, would anyone fake the struggles and trials of being born in a body they don't feel is anatomically right?

Thankfully most of us are not child molesters regardless of how we identify along this broad spectrum of sexuality ... And, quite frankly it's quite ignorant of people to continue to equate the LGBT community as pedophiles when the fact is that 85% of child molesters and rapists identify as heterosexual.

Also, let's not forget that there are people out here that are actually born with both (male and female) organs ... But, this is NOT about sex organs or even sex ... It's about taking a whiz, and I can assure you when I've got to take a whiz my bladder doesn't care if it's a men's, women's or unisex restroom!

Hell, it could even be a tree in the woods for all I care ... And if it came down to choosing between one of those plastic portables and a field of poison ivy, I can assure you I'd take my chances in the field of poison ivy! ... Nevertheless, I digress, and to answer your initial question:

What's the Big Deal About Transgender Restroom Policies? ... Small Minds!

Sincerely,
Pfrog!

Sooooooo....y'all read the #boycottTarget posts? *runs out the door*

Personally I say its time to do away with gender based bathrooms altogether. One bathroom for everyone, and change the building codes to require "stalls" around each toilet from floor to 6" below the ceiling with a lockable door. Problem solved

While they're opening the lawbooks its also time to update the outdated marriage laws to include gay, polygamist, and any other marriage between adults over the age of consent.

I also think its high time to outlaw labeling or specifying any product as mens, womens, boys, or girls. If I want to buy a dress for me, I dont want the "pressure" of having to be seen in the "womens department". They should be right beside the dress shirts.

I generally just go into my stall, pull my pants down and get on with the reason that I went there in the first place. I would generally not know or care if the other person is transgender or not. If someone is dressed as a woman and minds their own business it probably doesn't matter. I would find it creepy if someone were to come in and stand up topee next to me without a closed stall.

On the other hand there are creative creeps who dress up as women and then harass people in the bathroom. I had it happen once in Portland and it really scared me. But then as a woman I am never totally free from the threat of a sexual deviant somewhere. I have. Taken a couple of classes on self defense for women, yet I am probably not strong enough to get away from a guy who overpowered me and wanted to rape me.

I have done the same thing. A lot of gas stations are singles and I have used the men.

As for pervs, they caught a guy in the providence train station that put cameras in the men's room.

Why are so many of you claiming that people base their opinions on this issue by believing that the LGBT community are molesters or rapists or what not?

Look, I am an independent who couldn't care less about politics. I am sure I have some liberal views and some conservative views. I have nothing against the LGBT community. I am all for them having the same rights as everyone else. However, I am totally against this proposal in certain situations. If the transgender has not foregone a complete sex change then they need to be in the restroom of their current gender. Period. That's my opinion. If they have undergone the complete change, then by all means they should be allowed to go to their new gender's restroom.

My issue isn't with the LGBT community, it's with the fact that any male could dress up as a woman and walk into a woman's restroom. That's just asking for trouble. It would not be right for straight men to dress up as a woman and enter a restroom. And sadly, I think that is a valid concern in this day and time.

If they wanted to create a law where every location containing restrooms were also forced to have a uni-sex restroom, then that is perfectly fine. Because then it would be your choice if you wanted to use that restroom. But forcing women to use the same restroom as men or forcing men to use the same restroom as women is just wrong to me. As a guy, I don't want women coming into our bathroom any more than I want men going into women's restrooms. It isn't because I am discriminating or against the LGBT community, it's because I don't trust people enough for that to ever go smoothly.

You don't trust cis men and you think it's okay that a trans woman is therefor forced to pee with them? Can't see the logic here

I get your point, but no matter what we do in society we are open to dangers. I get that. But I think there is less danger in that than there is in allowing anyone to dress up as the opposite gender and use their designated restroom. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, there are sick people who would take advantage of that situation.

Okay and here is the keypoint: Trans people don't "dress up as the opposite gender". They dress as the person they are and when they want to pee then they just want to go to the bathroom that has there gender sign on it if they are gendered.

Your fear of a dude will dress up to harass women is totally out of context. He will do it anywas. HE IS A ****ING CREEP WHO IS DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL do you really think it will stop him if there are bills that say that transpersons aren't allowed in there? So just let them pee.

Do you know what makes me sad the most on your "they have to had the full reassign thing"? That not everyone want them. You are forcing them to do so if they want to pee. I don't know about you, but when I'm at the bathroom, I don't look - and I don't care - what the person next door has in their pant. That would be gross.
On the contrary do you want guards on the door? Looking inside your pants? Or how do you even plan to make this happen? When does someone qualify? And were do they go mid-transition?

I posted a study in this thread before if you want a taste of what it's like to be a trans person and trying to pee in public.

Just an add to think: where I live, we don't have such a bill. And _surprise_ there are no problems. We don't have dudes pretending to be women. If they want to harass, they just go in there. Thats a complete different problem.
The only persons that have problems becuase of this are the trans people, not the cis ones.

People who want to control others in this way are afraid---and they want everyone and everything to LOOK LIKE THEY EXPECT people/things to look---it's xenophobia looking for an explanation ---- they don't care what is on a birth certificate, or about little girls (little boys with grown men could be a greater concern....?) they want their own perceptions and beliefs verified even if they are looking at a lie. (I can just see a fully transitioned friend going into the bathroom of their birth certificate....they could be arrested....).
come on....do you know Anything about the other person in the bathroom with you no matter what they look like? Hello. Get over it.

I am having the same issue in a sense in fact I came here to looking for answers to a question. I agree with equality for all and I know before this new set of laws women and young girls were being hurt by men in restrooms but I am worried that this in a way would make it worse. I support people who have gone through all the steps to become the gender they identify with being able to use the restroom that they are now not what they were born as but I also know there is no way to regulated this. I don't want to feel like a bigot if I fight against this because I am all for gay rights but at the same time. I do feel like some men with ill intent may be able to sneak by and get in. I don't know how to feel about this. I don't want to come off as a bigot but I also don't agree with someone just being able to say oh I feel like I am a woman in a man's body and going into the woman's restroom. I know we can't put bouncers at restroom doors and checking IDs. I don't want to say trans people need their own restroom because I feel like that would be doing to them what we did to the blacks in the 50s. May be we just need to give up the fight because there is no way of really preventing sexual crimes from happening due to this.