The self-esteem fraud.

I'll agree to disagree with you, Pat, because I really like you. I also respect our differences... and the fact that both of us are Tough Old Broads. LOL

Darn! I was looking forward to finding those questions. Oh, well... Guess I'm off the hook, eh?

Okay we got two tough old broads , and one big mouth catnip breathe, so what does that make me ?
Come on somebody come up with somethin good I ain't bein left out ya know
Angie

LOL "Catnip breath"?? Who's that? LOL

Let me think on a "label" for ya! You sure you want one??

Yeah and it better not be chopped liver hehehe

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aren't as hypersensitive as some of the people we blab to

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who are these "hypersensitive" people you post to? your friends??

em

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aren't as hypersensitive as some of the people we blab to

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who are these "hypersensitive" people you post to? your friends??

em

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I was quite taken aback when I read that comment too. I'd like to know who exactly she is referring to too? I'm kinda thinking that she is referring to me for one. Didn't really come across as a compliment either but maybe that's just my 'hyper-sensitivity' showing again.

I know for one I am Hyper-sensitve to what Etieene was saying because I was asked point blank if I dx myself after I told her/him my dx

I noticed that myself. To me it was almost like she was questioning the validity of your dx. Of course, that's MY fried brain in action, not necessarily what she was thinking. We all know how warped my thinking is.

Thats one social worker Angie's stayin away from, nothin wrong with your brain hun, just a social worker that doesn't even have decency to come back and reply
Marie

Maybe she didn't like what she was being asked or maybe she's busy somewhere else and hasn't had a chance to come back? I guess we'll have to wait and see if and when she comes back.

Yeah, when she/he comes back I want to do the talkin for Angie
Marie

Do you pull rank?

No sweetie she doesn't even if she thinks she does at times, Marie come out if she feels someone is trying to hurt us or if she feels she has to punish one of us for talking too much
Angie

I found once I concentrated less on the ever elusive concept of SELF ESTEEM and concentrated on UNCONDITIONAL SELF ACCEPTANCE, I felt positively free.

But how do you accept yourself if you don't like yourself?

Hmmm, didn't know about the punishing for talking too much part before. Guess I haven't witnessed that one myself. Does that happen very much?

That's a good question, Angelgirl, one which requires a slightly lengthy response.

I suppose by unconditional self-acceptance I mean I try to accept myself, warts and all. Before I started CBT therapy, I was somewhat of a perfectionist, I put many SHOULD and OUGHT TOS on myself and others. When I couldn't live up to the SHOULDS (i.e. I should succeed always at work, everyone should like me, life should be fair at all times) I was miserable. I hated myself for not living up to all of my irrational demands.

Now that I can dispute all of my shoulds, I can concentrate on accepting my humanity. I can accept I am not perfect. I can even accept other people's cruelty.

I suppose once I stopped trying to like myself so much, and started concentrating on accepting myself for who I am (ie it's not AWFUL that I don't make $50K a year, it's not AWFUL that I'm not constantly the life of the party), I really felt free.

Once I began to work on unconditionally accepting myself (ie separate me as a person from my actions), I found I had a lot more self-respect.

I'm sure this sounds hazy, does it? It's still early!

Not too much lately, I find scracth marks or bite marks
Angie

Maybe I'm missing something here or maybe we think of self-esteem from different perspectives. I don't base mine on what I can or can not do, I base mine on how I feel about myself. So, with that being the case if I have no or low self-esteem how would I have self-acceptance?

Accepting yourself is self-esteem, at least thats what I thought
Angie

So did I.

Sorry I can't explain myself better.

I have always based my selfworth on my accomplishments, on how many people liked me. How people perceived me. I based my self worth on how OTHERS thought of me. I don't base it on how I feel, but on how others feel about me.

I suppose that is how we think differently angelgirl.

And maybe self esteem is self acceptance. I just prefer to think of them as different entities, that helps me for some reason.

To me, self esteem might be me saying to myself "I am a wonderful person" whereas self acceptance would be "I am me, I will love myself no matter what"

As Etienne says Self-esteem must in some way be earned. From who do we earn this from and who gives it?
Self-esteem must be earned repeadly, It is never permanent, again from who do we earn it from, and who says it is never permanent ?
I myself want better self-esteem, so I can be a better person for myself
Angie

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You brought up some very good points, Jo. I remember my children being in school and receiving the same prizes as the entire class even though they had made better grades. One of my step-sons was very upset, he was 12, at that system. He understood that they were trying to "level" the field and he stated that he knew that when he got in junior high, things would be different. So, we came up with a formula at home where the child that did really well during a week at school got extra privileges. I really think it helped our children prepare for junior and senior high. They entered feeling pretty self-assured and did well. They took chances and joined organizations that I don't think they would have joined if we had not corrected the grade school impression of everyone receiving the same reward...regardless of their efforts. They were all in the orchestra..one played golf and one played tennis, one took German...it was really cool to watch them.
In our case, self-esteem that was developed at home, was very important to those kids.

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Pat,

That's a perfect example of what I was trying to say. The school was using a rather misguided (IMO) method of protecting self-esteem, but you didn't say that self-esteem was wrong, you found another way to develop it in a way that was right for your children. By giving your children a chance to succeed and fail, and teaching them that the world will not come to an end if they fail, then they learn the courage to try.

I once read something about playing games with small children. They said that until about age 4, it's a good idea just to let the child win all the time. But after 4, the child should begin to learn that they won't always win. I can't possibly imagine the benefit of "protecting" 12-year-olds from the possibility of winning or losing.

True self-esteem is not having a sense of one's own value that sways in the breeze depending on the latest success or failure. It is the knowledge that you are not defined moment to moment, but have a fixed value as a person. At least that's how I see it...that doesn't really match the definition given in these articles. So maybe the real discussion shouldn't be about whether self-esteem is help or hindrance, but what type of self-esteem we should be seeking.

Jo