[Michah]

Hi there,

Back on my soapbox again......To people who have experienced sexual assault, this may be very upsetting. Please do not read on if it will upset you. If you can read it, I would like your opinion.

Here goes.......In Australia we have 4 major codes of football - National Rugby league(NRL), Australian Football league(AFL), Soccer(football) and Rugby Union. Australia is football mad(as is America around Super Bowl I have heard and Europe around the World Cup and Premier League!!!). Our culture is very football orientated. There is barely a person you will meet who does not have a team in at least one of the codes. Suffice to say, footballers are treated like Gods and prowl our bars and nightclubs with sex and alcohol on their minds. What 19, 20, 21 year old isn't? I mean, its normal isn't it? The problem is that footballers seem to "feel" above the law, above social decency and morality. It is as if their testosterone fueled brains and body weights of 100kgs of muscle, have addled their brain and made them invincible.

We have had an increased number of public crucification via the media of football players behaving very badly. Sexual assault, aggravated rape(can I say rape on here?), indecent exposure, group sex(said "consensual") and basically being right nasty. The poor women who report these incidents have their name dragged through the mud if it gets out, player fans sending the victim death threats because that woman dared to speak out against her attacker and all sorts of horrible things. That woman cannot heal if she is not supported.

Recently, one of our most famous Rugby League players was sacked form the network that aired his own football show due to allegations of group sex and sexual assault in New Zealand. Not only did he abuse a woman from a different country(not that that really makes a difference, but I wonder if he felt like he could get away with it out of the country. He is married as well), but 10 other members of the same team engaged in this along side of him . Now, the police found that the incident was consensual from the reports of the players and lack of evidence. The victim did not report it until 5 days later. I am surprised she was even able to leave the house. She would have been terrified. Group sex with eleven, well known, muscle bound and over 6 foot men that was consensual? She may have agreed to sleep with maybe 2 or 3 and felt she could handle that, both physically and emotionally. As far as I know she had the idea of relations with 2(her testimony) but ended up with men just coming in and out of the room. Whats wrong with this picture? Even if she had said no and probably did, do you think they would listen?.....behaving like a group of pack dogs on heat.....God save us.

At what point did one of the more mature players like the married, sacked one go......"HHHmmmm if this was my wife I would kill everyone in this room for violating her and committing this atrocious act. What we are doing is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG." Since being exposed, he has apologised to everyone but the victim. Are you serious??? The victim is traumatised, suicidal and wants to destroy the footballers lives. My God, that poor woman. And she is up against a football mad country who forgive all just so their favourite players can run on the field that weekend.

I have been approached many times in a nightclub by football players, especially if you go where they hang out. The more I have said no to drink, a chat, a anything.......the more they pursue you, like you need to be conquered. I avoid them like the plague and they say "Don't you know who I am?" Sure, your an idiot and you don't get the message. Imagine if you were a slightly intoxicated woman having a good time just socialising and then somehow found yourself manipulated by the sheer size and numbers of these men. You should be able to get rip roaring drunk, stand on your head, run a round naked and still say no.....That means no!!!!End of story!!

The NRL has introduced an ethics program into their training curriculum. It is worrying that they are so clueless. Part of the program is two filmed scenarios that the students are to comment on..... One is 2 players taking a intoxicated woman into a room for a drink. It starts to get heated from the men...she then realises that these men are big, powerful and she feels very vulnerable, she says No but they don't listen. The second scenario is the intoxicated player invites 2 guys over after a party. The men he invites start to get heated, there is tension in the room. The player says no but the men don't listen, overpower him and he is sexually assaulted. See the parallels?
Even though the students are traumatised by the homosexual act, they still make comments "but the woman invited them, what did she expect?" As did the player invite the men. Ha!! Doesn't matter,the message is "rape is rape, no matter who you are. No MEANS No!! Good learning.......

Anyway, thats me........sorry if I upset anyone......it just makes me furious.

[deliquesce]

thanks for sharing your opinion, michah. i've been following the story as well, but i dont follow footy at all (i know, how unaustralian!!!) so probably not as close as most others have.

i think it is a good thing that they are introducing the ethics component. better late than never. and these things need to spoken about, because it's not just footy players who hold these attitudes.

[Michah]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

thanks for sharing your opinion, michah. i've been following the story as well, but i dont follow footy at all (i know, how unaustralian!!!) so probably not as close as most others have.

i think it is a good thing that they are introducing the ethics component. better late than never. and these things need to spoken about, because it's not just footy players who hold these attitudes.

Thanks Deli......football can seem a little "stupid" at times. I do have a team but I am not a fanatic. yes these attitudes are across the board. Unfortunatley though, due to the media and the lack of protection for victims, women who have had this happen by others are less likely to come forward because there is NO action against the perpetrator. It is sending victims the wrong message. That they will be crucified if they speak out. bad bad. thats what makes me angry.

have a good one babe......

[Luce]

Michah, mostly I am of the same opinion with regards to testosterone feulled footballers and their various sexcapades that one hears of from time to time... AND, initially I was just as horrified at this latest scandal as anyone else.

But then there was this:

http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/league/56...harks-sex-romp

A former work colleague of the woman at the centre of the Cronulla Sharks sex scandal in Christchurch involving Matthew Johns claims her co-worker bragged about the incident.
Tania Boyd has told the Nine Network that the woman in the ABC's Four Corners report, identified as "Clare", had boasted to her workmates about bedding several players and only contacted police five days after the alleged incident.
"She was absolutely excited about the fact. She was bragging about it to the staff and quite willing, openly saying how she had sex with several players," said Boyd.
"We were quite disgusted about it. There was no trauma whatsoever.
"I'm disgusted that a woman can all of a sudden change her story from having a great time to then turning it into a terrible crime.
"One minute she was absolutely bragging about it, she did not know names. These names only came to light to us in the last day.
"We all just thought it was hilarious until five days later the police came to work and were horrified she had now changed her story to say she was now a victim of crime.
"It was definitely consensual, absolutely.
"She is saying she is still traumatised etcetera, well she wasn't for five days, or four days at least, after that affair.
"I can't work out what's happened. Does it take five days for it to sink in?"
The woman told the ABC that the night in which she had group sex with several Cronulla players at a Christchurch hotel seven years ago left her with psychological damage and led her to abandoning her studies.
Psychiatrists reported that she was suicidal, had cut her wrists several times and bought a rope to hang herself.
She told the ABC she felt degraded and traumatised by the incident and despised the players involved.
Among the allegations aired on Monday, the woman said "___(edited)__" For years and years afterwards I was drinking a lot, crying a lot and losing a lot of friends and doing quite destructive things to myself and other people," she told the programme.
"At the end of it, I wasn't so much drinking heaps and heaps, I was more scared to go out of the house."
She said the destructive period lasted about four or five years and she was now speaking out to let the wives and girlfriends of those involved know what they had done.
"I was so angry and I wanted their lives destroyed like mine was," she said.
"If I had a gun I'd shoot them right now.
"I hate them. They disgust me. For all that they did, I hate them so much."

I don't know who is right and who is wrong.
But now I am not so eager to point fingers at Matthew Johns and scream "rapist!" as I once was.

[Michah]

Originally Posted by Luce

Michah, mostly I am of the same opinion with regards to testosterone feulled footballers and their various sexcapades that one hears of from time to time... AND, initially I was just as horrified at this latest scandal as anyone else.

But then there was this:

http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/league/56...harks-sex-romp

A former work colleague of the woman at the centre of the Cronulla Sharks sex scandal in Christchurch involving Matthew Johns claims her co-worker bragged about the incident.
Tania Boyd has told the Nine Network that the woman in the ABC's Four Corners report, identified as "Clare", had boasted to her workmates about bedding several players and only contacted police five days after the alleged incident.
"She was absolutely excited about the fact. She was bragging about it to the staff and quite willing, openly saying how she had sex with several players," said Boyd.
"We were quite disgusted about it. There was no trauma whatsoever.
"I'm disgusted that a woman can all of a sudden change her story from having a great time to then turning it into a terrible crime.
"One minute she was absolutely bragging about it, she did not know names. These names only came to light to us in the last day.
"We all just thought it was hilarious until five days later the police came to work and were horrified she had now changed her story to say she was now a victim of crime.
"It was definitely consensual, absolutely.
"She is saying she is still traumatised etcetera, well she wasn't for five days, or four days at least, after that affair.
"I can't work out what's happened. Does it take five days for it to sink in?"
The woman told the ABC that the night in which she had group sex with several Cronulla players at a Christchurch hotel seven years ago left her with psychological damage and led her to abandoning her studies.
Psychiatrists reported that she was suicidal, had cut her wrists several times and bought a rope to hang herself.
She told the ABC she felt degraded and traumatised by the incident and despised the players involved.
Among the allegations aired on Monday, the woman said "___(edited)__" For years and years afterwards I was drinking a lot, crying a lot and losing a lot of friends and doing quite destructive things to myself and other people," she told the programme.
"At the end of it, I wasn't so much drinking heaps and heaps, I was more scared to go out of the house."
She said the destructive period lasted about four or five years and she was now speaking out to let the wives and girlfriends of those involved know what they had done.
"I was so angry and I wanted their lives destroyed like mine was," she said.
"If I had a gun I'd shoot them right now.
"I hate them. They disgust me. For all that they did, I hate them so much."

I don't know who is right and who is wrong.
But now I am not so eager to point fingers at Matthew Johns and scream "rapist!" as I once was.

Yep, I hear you......and if this was the case, for people who are genuinely making an rape claim it can make it so much harder for the alleged victim. Guilty, until proven innocent.

However, I wonder, if due to the trauma she was taking some of the control back due to her deep feelings of being completely disempowered and violated by making it seem like a pleasurable, heroic triumph......a bit of celebrity if you like to give the awful event some 'meaning" and that in her mind was the devestating thought that "she asked for it". and I think intitially, she did consent, but at some point did they listen if she did say no? Thats the problem, no-one really knows what went on.......there was no impartial witness, or not one willing to speak out.

Thanks for input, babe

[Luce]

Michah, I do think there are many factors involved here that we, the public, are not aware of. For instance, from the various sources of information that have been released about this incident, I think it would not be unreasonable to assume that this woman had a long history of trauma and victimisation. If that is the case, who knows what kind of coping strategies she has developed and what factor they played in both the development and after affects of what happened here?

I do not in any way condone the actions of the footballers who were involved in this... that whole mentality sickens me. However, I am no longer so certain that they didn't fully believe the woman consented to whatever occured.
And, if that is the case (and none of us will ever know for sure) then I truly don't believe they (he!) should be held accountable for what happened.

[Michah]

Originally Posted by Luce

Michah, I do think there are many factors involved here that we, the public, are not aware of. For instance, from the various sources of information that have been released about this incident, I think it would not be unreasonable to assume that this woman had a long history of trauma and victimisation. If that is the case, who knows what kind of coping strategies she has developed and what factor they played in both the development and after affects of what happened here?

I do not in any way condone the actions of the footballers who were involved in this... that whole mentality sickens me. However, I am no longer so certain that they didn't fully believe the woman consented to whatever occured.
And, if that is the case (and none of us will ever know for sure) then I truly don't believe they (he!) should be held accountable for what happened.

Yep, I agree......good point

[multipixie9]

In America we have this same sort of sick mindset amoung the sports "elite". Much bad behavior, indeed criminal behavior has been permitted and even condoned by the public. It is disgusting to me that people will not pay decent wages to those who provide "daycare" to infants and small children, but will pay fortunes to sports figures and actors.

I just had a thought or two to share, speculative though these thoughts are. No one who was not present and involved the night of the incident with the footballers and this woman will ever know the "actual" truth. It seems to me that for a woman to be interested in having sex with 2 or 3 men in the same night that there is some kind of problem going on to begin with. (this is strictly my opinion, mind you, based upon my unwanted sexual experiences as a child) For all anyone knows this woman could be someone with DID who had parts who act out sexually. One part could consent to things another would find revolting or repelling.

The bottom line for me will always be that if someone says NO, then the activity should cease immediately. I know that my views on sex and promiscuity are formed by abuse that I may never be able to get completely beyond. I personally think that rape should be a capitol offense, especially the rape of a small child. Being assaulted this way altered my whole life forever in ways I can't remedy.

OK, I stayed up way late tonight, like the past 4 nights and I am tired. I spoke out very strongly in this posting and wonder if I should have maybe said less. However, I am not going to censor myself or censure myself (sorry, word joke) because I wrote exactly what I mean and feel about sexual assault. If I offended anyone, please note it was not intentional. It's just that someone stole one of marriages greatest pleasures and bonding experiences from me before I could even speak and stole ME from my spouse. I've never been free in this area and it has hurt my marriage and actually affected my children's lives because I was too damaged to hold enough conversations with them on the topic of sex and self-worth.

Leaving now, I feel stupid.

Leslie

[Luce]

Well said, Leslie - please do not feel stupid at all!

I totally agree with you that there is likely something going on with this woman, and also that NO means NO, no matter what.

Good on you for speaking out about something you feel strongly about.

[Michah]

Originally Posted by multipixie9

In America we have this same sort of sick mindset amoung the sports "elite". Much bad behavior, indeed criminal behavior has been permitted and even condoned by the public. It is disgusting to me that people will not pay decent wages to those who provide "daycare" to infants and small children, but will pay fortunes to sports figures and actors.

I just had a thought or two to share, speculative though these thoughts are. No one who was not present and involved the night of the incident with the footballers and this woman will ever know the "actual" truth. It seems to me that for a woman to be interested in having sex with 2 or 3 men in the same night that there is some kind of problem going on to begin with. (this is strictly my opinion, mind you, based upon my unwanted sexual experiences as a child) For all anyone knows this woman could be someone with DID who had parts who act out sexually. One part could consent to things another would find revolting or repelling.

The bottom line for me will always be that if someone says NO, then the activity should cease immediately. I know that my views on sex and promiscuity are formed by abuse that I may never be able to get completely beyond. I personally think that rape should be a capitol offense, especially the rape of a small child. Being assaulted this way altered my whole life forever in ways I can't remedy.

OK, I stayed up way late tonight, like the past 4 nights and I am tired. I spoke out very strongly in this posting and wonder if I should have maybe said less. However, I am not going to censor myself or censure myself (sorry, word joke) because I wrote exactly what I mean and feel about sexual assault. If I offended anyone, please note it was not intentional. It's just that someone stole one of marriages greatest pleasures and bonding experiences from me before I could even speak and stole ME from my spouse. I've never been free in this area and it has hurt my marriage and actually affected my children's lives because I was too damaged to hold enough conversations with them on the topic of sex and self-worth.

Leaving now, I feel stupid.

Leslie

Multipixie, you are a champion as always!!!.......you speak from experience as has everyone else that replied(I assume) and thats what I wanted.......this was the right place for you to be opinionated!!! I have struggled with my sexuality big time as well.......for different reasons but traumatic nonetheless. I have come close to being a victim of rape as a teenager, but managed to get out of it. I think this is why this interests me so much and how many flaws exist in society and the system for both victim and perpetrator. Thank you for being so honest and feeling. I am humbled by it and I need some humility from time to time!!

Cheers, to all of you that replied, you brave, honourable women..........