[tish2010]

I have just been told by my therapist that I was a victim of "Parental 'Alienation Syndrome" when I was a child....I was alienated from my Dad..
I never realized what it was until now....what an awakening..
..and when I left my husband my 2 children were victims of the same thing from my ex....
he has a lot to answer for because one of them has suicided and the other one is still under his spell and treats me like ****

has anyone else here been a victim or seen it happen?

[Baaku]

Good morning Tish,

When I remarried, my second wife had 2 teenage children (I also have 2 kids, now grown tho) and both were experiencing deep parental alienation. Their father, an MD, had the classic symptoms of adult Aspergers, which made it nigh impossible for his kids to bond with him and which caused a great deal of anger and hostility as both parents tried to create a divide. Now, years later, both have formed a bond with me and see me as their father. It was painful to see them through their pain and be there even when they were lashing out at me and my kids since they saw the disparity.

However, I apologize if this sounds harsh, but there is no "Parental Alienation Syndrome," as was proposed by the late Richard Gardner, MD, in the mid-1980's. The label has been soundly rejected by both the clinical/mental health community (below is just one article) although a minority of clinicians continue to subscribe to it.

http://www.ncdsv.org/imag/PASPropone...Emery_2005.pdf

and the courts (another article of several)

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/Hou...lawjournal.pdf

even though he claimed it had been accepted (a false claim to sell his theory).

Parental alienation (minus the word syndrome) is seen as the effect of one parent attempting to drive a wedge between the other parent and the child, which has been talked about for centuries but published in the literature only in the last 75 years. I've seen it most pronounced in child custody disputes, when I've been asked by the court to conduct an evaluation.

I think the larger picture may be what it was you experienced, why the therapist thought it was useful to label it as such, and most importantly, how having this label eases your pain. I'm wondering if you feel comfortable talking about this, it may help us get a better handle on what you experienced then and how it's affecting your life now.

When you say one of your children "suicided" do you mean they committed suicide or that they're suicidal? Secondly, while your ex may still be "brainwashing" your other child, there are several things you can do to stop your child's behavior towards you-- it will take some work on your part, but it is very doable. If your interested, we can continue this based on your response to this post.

Tish, I'm so sorry you've had to go through this and I know that the scars can last for years and years. My hope is that you will not see my post as negative and demeaning of your experience, but more so as part of the healing process for yourself. I think we all need to understand where our pain comes from and how it affects us, but the understanding has to be based on certain realities. However, it may be more important to look for ways to move beyond it so that it no longer serves as a source of ongoing distress.

With compassion,
Baaku

[tish2010]

Originally Posted by Baaku

Good morning Tish,

When I remarried, my second wife had 2 teenage children (I also have 2 kids, now grown tho) and both were experiencing deep parental alienation. Their father, an MD, had the classic symptoms of adult Aspergers, which made it nigh impossible for his kids to bond with him and which caused a great deal of anger and hostility as both parents tried to create a divide. Now, years later, both have formed a bond with me and see me as their father. It was painful to see them through their pain and be there even when they were lashing out at me and my kids since they saw the disparity.

However, I apologize if this sounds harsh, but there is no "Parental Alienation Syndrome," as was proposed by the late Richard Gardner, MD, in the mid-1980's. The label has been soundly rejected by both the clinical/mental health community (below is just one article) although a minority of clinicians continue to subscribe to it.

http://www.ncdsv.org/imag/PASPropone...Emery_2005.pdf

and the courts (another article of several)

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/Hou...lawjournal.pdf

even though he claimed it had been accepted (a false claim to sell his theory).

Parental alienation (minus the word syndrome) is seen as the effect of one parent attempting to drive a wedge between the other parent and the child, which has been talked about for centuries but published in the literature only in the last 75 years. I've seen it most pronounced in child custody disputes, when I've been asked by the court to conduct an evaluation.

I think the larger picture may be what it was you experienced, why the therapist thought it was useful to label it as such, and most importantly, how having this label eases your pain. I'm wondering if you feel comfortable talking about this, it may help us get a better handle on what you experienced then and how it's affecting your life now.

When you say one of your children "suicided" do you mean they committed suicide or that they're suicidal? Secondly, while your ex may still be "brainwashing" your other child, there are several things you can do to stop your child's behavior towards you-- it will take some work on your part, but it is very doable. If your interested, we can continue this based on your response to this post.

Tish, I'm so sorry you've had to go through this and I know that the scars can last for years and years. My hope is that you will not see my post as negative and demeaning of your experience, but more so as part of the healing process for yourself. I think we all need to understand where our pain comes from and how it affects us, but the understanding has to be based on certain realities. However, it may be more important to look for ways to move beyond it so that it no longer serves as a source of ongoing distress.

With compassion,
Baaku

thanks for your reply Baaku...very interesting reading...couldn't get one of the pages to open though..
My Mum kept a wedge between we kids and Dad....they never divorced but Mum just had a huge hate on Dad....he was demeaned and she told him all the time to go away if I was around....If I stood up for him it made her worse...I always felt like the meat in the sandwich..
when Mum died Dad and I were finally able to get close but my siblings continued to treat him badly until he died..
I divorced my ex when my kids were little....we went through hell with their father alienating them from me with anything he could think of....
He'd call me horrible names, tell them all the money I had was theirs to spend as they pleased.(I was on a single parent pension) they wouldn't acknowledge my birthday, mothers day, etc. and misbehaved with me something chronic...I was made out to be totally the bad guy when i only had the childrens best interests at heart..
I was even locked out of the house by them at one point....the police told my ex to stop it bit it continued and still is......
the eldest one even now an adult has been so brainwashed they still treat me with no respect ...still looking for their fathers approval...doesn't talk to me because of how they've been taught to think of me....it really hurts..
Yes one of my kids died by suicide....
when they were little and a victim of PA they (one of my children) would want to die...we were very close and it must have been very difficult for them trying to please their father but still loving me...
they (the one that suicided) fought constantly with their father in recent years and I'm sure some of it's because they stood their ground for their mother...
the child I lost was totally screwed by their father and the other one is the same but not suicidal....
I guess my therapist was trying to help me see how my kids were affected by their father so i could see why I've lost my kids....one to suicide and the other to loyalty to their Dad...
I feel so sad for them and for me....it hurts...

[Baaku]

Oh my Tish,

I can't even pretend to imagine how this must feel... the pain and feelings must be so strong at times that you can't even move. Tish, my heart goes out to you. I think that losing a child has to be one of life's most horrific experiences.

I only know death from another angle, some of my family was tortured and executed when I was young and the images and memories never seem to go away. Even to this day, over 50 years later, I feel their pain and presence-- and no amount of therapy can remove these images, sounds, smells and sensations. They have become the life blood of my soul, serving to further refine it in its' journey-- so I make every effort now to protect my pains and never forget or try to have them become diminished.

Tish, I have no great words of wisdom or insight, only a kindred pain and a hope that at some point you will find peace in a way that removes the pain but not the memory.

With great compassion and understanding,
Baaku

PS: I wanted to put this elsewhere and this is as good a place as any. If you would like to talk more about your family situation and some ways you might be able to work thru this, please keep talking. We will listen and hopefully can be of help.