Is this rape

That was not what happened in this case, the sex was consensual. I was referring to this particular situation, only.

She told him to pull out. If that doesn't mean "no" or "stop," I don't know what does.

If she feels that she was raped, she has the option of reporting it. If she wants to prevent pregnancy, she should get on some form of birth control.

I understand her sense of betrayal, but to say that he raped her?

Dnester, I am wondering if you are still finding this thread helpful? I think some folks understood that you experienced something alarming which was not your fault. Others seem focused on judging.

You deserve enjoyable, consensual, and respectful sex each and every time you choose to share your body. The only person with a right to dictating terms (what you want/don't want) for your body is yourself. If someone does not meet your standards for respect (in bed or anywhere else); that is a reflection of his character, not yours.

As a friendly reminder to all, it is 2018. We've now had the suffragette movement...women joined the work force...continue to strive for equal respect and pay...we have the Me Too movement and Time's Up. Men are no longer held to such abysmally low standards as: "I can't control myself once I start" or "Well, you did climb into bed with him so you take what you get" or "It is not rape unless you kick and scream and wind up in hospital with serious physical injuries." Those arguments may have seemed reasonable to the 'Mad Men' characters of the 1960s but girls and women have come a long way since those days.

There are good men in this world who don't treat women the way you have described. One of them is my significant other and several have been my friends and colleagues over the years. I always encourage the good men to keep standing up and speaking out along with girls and women. Let's work together to end "rape culture" and "blaming and shaming the victim." Let's replace with: well why on earth shouldn't SHE receive the same rights as HE? They are, after all, equally human.

Peace and good health to you Dnester

I was just curious really. Another question about the same man. He was attempting to engage in a certain sex act with me and I said that hurts. Instead of trying something else he pushed in. What do you think about this? I should point out that I am no longer with this man. Also that I was married to this man for 20 years. So anyone who thinks I am loose is not the case. I have only had two sex partners my whole life and I am 42 years old.

The reality is that there are many bad men out there too. They won't stop when told "NO!" They take whatever they want with no consideration for the other person. I don't see any indication that this type of predator will change their behavior. Yes, the world will continue to evolve towards treating each other with more dignity and respect, but these bad men will continue to adjust their trickery and predatory skills.

I think there needs to be more of an emphasis on how to keep each other safe from men who will never listen to "NO" or "STOP." It is often too late once things reach the bedroom stage. That is the point when things often go out of control for the victim.

Good question Dnester. Just so you know, I believe there there should be zero judgment for people like yourself with two sexual partners or those with more.

I am sorry that happened to you with your ex-husband. His actions were indicative of not respecting your boundaries. I wonder if he respected your boundaries beyond sex but you you may not wish to discuss that?

Continuing with a sex act against your explicit wishes was sexual assault. A safe and healthy relationship (sexual or otherwise) requires mutual respect for individual boundaries. It is no different than telling a partner: "I don't like when you take food off my plate...you need to ask first if you would like to share." Though violation of sexual boundaries obviously has much more serious consequences than the food example.

A respectful sexual partner would have immediately stopped, apologized for your pain, and then asked how you wanted to proceed or if you'd like to stop the sex entirely. And then kindly and calmly complied with your wishes.

There are female researchers out there finding that modern society still has a way to go before understanding female sexuality. Our bodies are so different from men's and at least 70% of women today report discomfort or pain during sex. Women also report that they often do not mention this pain to their partner (though I realize you did speak up). That is part of a larger issue whereby women have been socialized to be passive or submissive with men. There is hope, I think it's getting better in some ways but we need to keep working on it.

Your sexual health threads here are important because it has been suggested that the way to improve understanding of women's sexual health is to increase open, shame-free communication, and empower women to discuss their needs/desires/concerns directly with their partner(s).

I had two female friends (one in her 30s, one in her 60s) who confided to me about the sexual assault they regularly experienced from their husbands within their marriages. In the dark old days, it was a widely held belief that women had no right to set sexual boundaries with their husbands. But the times have changed. Thank goodness!!! A wife has no more duty to accept sexual assault from a husband than a gf with a bf or anyone else.

You mentioned that you are no longer with the person you described. Would you like a few friendly ideas for the future?

- consulting with a sex therapist may help (one of my friends said her sex therapist was amazingly helpful)
- open communication with a partner is key: before, during, and/or after sex. Provided you are with a man who respects boundaries, you will be able to adjust your sex life as needed. If you two simply cannot agree on what sex is or isn't going to be, then that likely isn't the right partner for you. you aren't sexually compatible.
- never accept violation of your boundaries for any reason. If that is unclear or sounds very challenging, a trusted therapist could really help you to work on that.

One thing I've learned about men and sex: the good guys will kindly respect your wishes including if they accidentally misunderstood and need to adjust for the future. Guys who get angry, ignore your requests, shame or blame you...they fall into a very different category. They are abusive.

Hope this helps with your curiosity. My messages come from a place of regard and good will. Disregard at will if they don't suit you Dnester

NightNotes, you appear to be misunderstanding or misinterpreting my messages. I never at any point suggested that any woman should try to convert a known sexual predator into a safe, loving partner. I made it very clear that the assault Dnester described was unacceptable and not the action of a healthy man.

Yes, I am aware that sexual predators exist. I am alive. I don't need you to inform me that there are sexual predators in the world. I was emphasizing that good, healthy men do not force women to do things they don't want to do. You seemed to be suggesting that the assault which occurred was Dnester's fault...I think you were the poster who suggested that she didn't know the man long enough before engaging in sex even though he was her husband of 20 years.

Perhaps that was not your intention but that is how it sounded to me. As far as protecting the self from sexual predators, that is a whole other thread. As I said, we appear to be talking at cross-purposes here.

Tone is important. Responses to questions about sexual assault should be met with sensitivity and compassion. I was hearing condescension and judgment.

I think he sounds like a selfish jerk, who had no respect for you. I am glad that you are no longer with him.

I never suggested that anything was her fault. I don't play the blame game. I was not implying anything about anyone in particular. I made a general statement that sex is a risky activity, especially when we don't know the person long enough or well enough. I don't know the specifics of the poster's relationship with the man she referred to, and so I did not respond to that specifically.

I never implied that you suggested that we convert predators into loving men. That did not come from my posts.

My point was that we need to find ways to become more risk averse when it comes to sexual encounters. This applies to people we've only known for 2 days or 30 years. I'm speaking from my own personal experience and from the experiences of friends I've known who have gone through very bad situations. They all agree with what I'm saying here.

My intention is not to be insensitive. I'm still traumatized by something that happened to a close friend of mine, which is why I responded to this thread. I've helped my friend more effectively protect herself with my blunt honesty. I'm just here to help.

This is what I believe: If we have even the faintest intuition or notice a red flag indicating that someone may not respect our boundaries, then we should take our intuition or those red flags seriously, since there could be truth to what we are feeling or noticing. However, I realize this is easier said than done, and some men and women are very skilled at fooling us, and so we don't always pick up on the potential risks or dangers. More often than not, we are caught completely off guard.

If I sound insensitive, then that is not my intention. I posted here because I care about people and I'm horrified at the behavior of "some" men. If I had a daughter, I would tell her the same thing that I've written here.

Lately, it seems that we are so worried about unintentionally making each other feel blamed, that we don't talk about how to protect ourselves. I don't think this is doing anyone any good.

I would NEVER blame the victim! Bad things happen to good people. So, let's figure out how to protect ourselves more effectively from the bad people.

If this has digressed into another thread category or overlaps more than one category, then I apologize.

I think the only real way to approach this is to look at it legally...

*Legally* rape is defined as unwanted sexual penetration.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that in court, if someone consented to the penetration, it is not considered rape.

It sucks that the man did not pull out when asked, but I think legally it's not considered rape.

From my understanding (from the OP, I didn't read the rest of the thread), asking someone to pull out to avoid pregnancy... well... It doesn't usually work anyway. So... I mean, if someone consents to the sex, that's great! But if they want a more fool-proof way to avoid pregnancy, they should take contraceptives.

I'm just wondering, if he HAD pulled out and you still got pregnant....? What would the OP do?

I hope I am understanding this correctly! If not, please feel free to correct me!

Again, so sorry that happened. But I think according to USA law, not pulling out when asked doesn't count as rape.

Take a look at post #25 for articles about the law on this topic.

Bill, thank you for your 21st century information.

This is an important subject to explore,especially sexual boundaries within marriage interests me and the laws concerning this.

Yes! Thank you, Bill.
I guess my information was outdated

But thanks for clearing it up!

edit;
I'm still curious though... Since the "pull out" method isn't a great way to prevent pregnancy.... what would have happened if the OP got pregnant even if he did pull out?

If she gave birth then the two of them would be parents.

I hope I didn't come off as judgemental!
That was not my intention at all.

I've been in that situation where someone told me that I wasn't actually raped because I didn't have "significant injuries". His reasoning being that he was an ex-police officer and apparently "knew" how rape victims acted and I didn't fit into his narrow little box.

At the same time, I was recently in a simulated situation where I supposedly knew someone close to me who was accused of sexual abuse. However, there was no proof of the abuse and the "judge" in this situation was like, "**** HIM. HE IS THE SCUM OF THE EARTH"... without even hearing his side of the story.

In any other situation, yeah, I probably would have agreed.
I don't like rape culture... but I don't like this new direction where apparently, if a man is accused he is automatically guilty. Like, no one believes in "innocent until proven guilty" anymore. I mean, you know what I mean? People are so quick to call a man an abuser without even looking at the facts of the situation or hearing both sides.

I'm not saying that the OP is in that situation. I completely agree that when you don't pull out when someone asks, that is wrong. That is a definite fact.

However, I feel like people are so quick to throw judgement, not only on the victims but also on those accused. I think to Johnny Depp in this situation. Everyone said he was an abuser, that he was awful. No one gave a **** that his wife actually went to JAIL for being physically abusive towards her girlfriend and she had a long history of being abusive. She also went directly to the press about the abuse allegations and NOT to the police

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread.
I just wanted to put another perspective on it.

I think a better way of asking is...
If he did pull out, and she still got pregnant, would it *still* be considered rape?
Because she did not want to get pregnant?

I don't know if that makes sense?
It made sense in my head but I don't know if it's making sense outside?

From my perspective this thread has been derailed multiple times. I think the point of the thread was to respond to Dnester's experience of an assault on her bodily autonomy and to answer her question as to whether such an assault is equal to rape. She didn't actually ask anyone what they thought of her approach to contraception or if they agree with the withdrawal method. I only commented on that aspect because several people were saying it's completely ineffective...I know a few women who would disagree but as I said that was not Dnester's question.

I am also not sure why there are postings about what would happen if a woman became pregnant from a sexual assault. I have no idea what you are driving at there but I feel quite sure that it does not fit with this thread.

With regard to concern for falsely accused men...why is that being added to a thread started by a woman who was sexually assaulted by her husband??? Is this lack of tact arising because we are strangers posting without seeing each other's faces? Would anyone bring up a concern about false accusations toward men right after your sister/girlfriend/daughter told you she asked her husband to withdraw and he intentionally ignored her wishes?

Let's please show some decorum here folks...I don't think that's any less important on PC than in person.

And a personal request from me to any posters here, please DO NOT SLICE quotes from me...someone took one line out of my posting completely out of context...I was quoting patriarchal justifications for rape...my full thread indicated that these are abysmally low standards to set for men and I find them outrageous. But the quote was sliced and re-posted and reads as though it was posted on its own by HopefullyLost. It was not! If you can delete that sliced quote, please do so asap.

In short, a human being asked us (via posting) about a distressing experience she had. Folks, I encourage you to remember that when you add to a thread. Were your posts intended to support Dnester?

I'm so sorry that happened to you!

But I'm a little confused. I'm trying really hard to not sound condescending.

If you knew he didn't want to pull out... Did you know this *before* having sex? I think regardless, it was a horrible thing to do to someone. But if you knew he wasn't going to pull out...?

I reviewed all of the previous posts to get a better idea of what happened.

I, myself, was a rape victim. I can understand it's scary to be raped. But I'm just a little confused.

Regardless of whether or not it's legal rape, I do think that boundaries are important. Since we really didn't get a lot of background information about what happened, we can only speculate. BUT! I think this could be an eye-opener for setting up boundaries in the future.

Again, sorry if I'm coming off as an asshole.

[QUOTE=Esmme;6378387]

The title of this thread is - not -
please share your thoughts on false accusations against men.

I guess my posts were misunderstood.

I was definitely not trying to cause any distress. I was merely trying to understand the situation to the point where I could help.

I don't know if I can delete it, but I will report my post and have it deleted if I am not able to delete it in time. Again, I don't mean to come off as an asshole.

I was a rape victim too, so I definitely sympathize with the OP. I was just wondering if I could get more information to make a meaningful post that would be helpful.
I also mentioned the false accusations, not saying that the OP was in this situation, but just trying to get a different perspective. According to Bill3's post, it was only considered rape in 8 states. I wanted to be legally correct.

But I mentioned the false accusations because I felt that it had to do with the question of the OP "is this rape".

I guess if you wanted to know my answer to that, I'd say no.

So....

edit;

It was not my intention to make anyone offended. I'm just speaking from my own experience. I don't believe consensual sex but no pulling out counts as rape. And from the other posts I've read through this thread, I see others agree with me. And I also saw that the OP clearly said that they knew the man they were having sex with was not going to pull out.

I'm also confused as to why you seem to be attacking me specifically when there are others with the same mindset. Yes, we can ALL agree that he was ****** for not pulling out... But we can also agree that pulling out only works, what... 50% of the time? I'm not the only person who said that a better form of birth control is in order if the OP does not want to get pregnant.

Apparently, you know more about the OP than what the OP posted. I'm only going by what I've read in this thread. That's the ONLY information I have to go by. So I am sharing my personal feelings and experiences.

[QUOTE=Esmme;6378425]

Perhaps you are over-identifying, Esmme? Each sexual assault involves an individual situation. Every survivor of rape is a unique human being with their own feelings and thoughts and responses. A rape story will not always look or sound the same as another.

Personally, I found your comments about women falsely accusing men to be deeply offensive given that they were added in a thread about a woman who was forced to experience sex without a barrier against her wishes. I realize you didn't say that's what Dnester was doing, but I mean really, was that kind or sensitive or empathetic? I think not.

[QUOTE=Esmme;6378425]

Nobody is attacking you Esmme. I disagree with you and found your comments troubling but I wish you peace and joy in life.

[QUOTE=HopefullyLost1211;6378429]The OP stated that the sex was consensual.
The OP also stated that they KNEW the man would not pull out...

I get it, I know better than most people that sexual assault is different in every scenario.

But from the information I have gathered from this thread, the sex was consensual. The only thing the OP did not want was for him to ejaculate inside of her due to fear of pregnancy...

I also did not see ANYWHERE in this thread where the OP mentions the man as her "husband" so clearly you have more information than I have.

As a rape victim, it offends me when people consent to sex, but later on claim it was rape. Yes, I don't know the full story, but the OP did not share any information that would lead me to believe that it wasn't consensual sex.

Multiple posts on the first two pages of this thread are in agreement with me.

If you have more information about the OP, then please share it! I don't want the OP to be upset, but neither do I want to coddle the OP.