[sabby]

Ok, I'm posting here asking for opinions for a freind of mine. She is having a hard time deciding if the following should be

considered abuse or not. She is interested in your opinions please.

A young woman (under age 18) is in the same home as an adult man. This man is an authority figure to her. The man has been

drinking. This man turns to the young woman and kisses her. He then begins to feel her up and down. There is no penetration

except with fingers. The young woman did not try to stop the man.

1. Is this sexual abuse?

2. If she didn't try to stop him, is it her fault or is she guilty for not trying to stop him?

3. Did he take adavantage of her?

4. What role does fear play on her part?

5. If she decides that indeed this was abuse, where could she turn to for help in telling her story and finding support?

Thanks for all who respond to this thread. Please remember to keep responses supportive.


sabby

[LMo]

I'm sorry for your friend's dilemma, Sabby, and you're a good friend for trying to help her through what is undoubtably a stressful time.

I would want more opinion if, say, I were on a jury trying to decide whether it was abuse or not. Is she almost 18 or is she 12? How old is he - is he 20 or 40? How long as he been an authority figure to her? Does HE see himself as an authority figure? When you say she "didn't try to stop the man", what does that mean? She didn't freak out and scream, or she didn't show any discomfort or hesitation?

I couldn't jump to a conclusion while knowing so little. I was also in similar situations (not really with authority figures, though) when I was a teenager and young adult, so I can indeed sympathize with the fear, guilt, and self-questioning.

Regardless, I'm sure that she is stressed and upset, and my heart goes out to her

[nothemama8]

IMHO, drink is causing the adult male to act inaproppriatly (sp)
1. yes this is abuse
2. she is not at fault, could be fear of man
3.yes
4. womens hotline, anywhere away from the man
please let her know she is not a bad person, she is the victim, {{{{{ Hugs ))))) if needed

[bipolar_bear]

((((((((((((((((((sabby's friend))))))))))))))))))))))))) Yes what she experienced is sexual abuse. It is never appropriate for an older person to sexually assault a minor. Ever. Not under any circumstances is it all right. The guilt lies with the perpetrator. She is not guilty of anything. This feeling of guilt is common but it is not fair to the victim. Absolutely he took advantage of her. Emotionally and physically. Fear can be such a wide range of reasons. Fear of the person doing the act, that the act even happened, will it be repeated, fear of themselves, fear of the bodies automatic responses and the list can go on. A good trauma therapist is an excellent source. It is not unknown territory to them and they can provide a wealth of support. She is not alone. I also welcome her to post here and to certainly feel free to PM me. Please give your friend my sincere regret that she is having to deal with this.

BB

[LMo]

I guess, I think there is more to whether someone is a 'minor' or not. Different countries have different age brackets for 'minors' - it happens to be 18 in the US. But I know 25 year olds that have the maturity and confidence of a 14 year old, so I would consider them to be just as vulnerable despite their age. And vice-versa. I would see this situation as abusive based on the woman's vulnerability level, not merely her age. So that's why I'd not be too quick to jump to an abuse accusation just yet.

[wanttoheal]

I agree with LMo. There's not enough information. But, if she is feeling uncomfortable with what's going on, she should definitely talk to a therapist or safe house and find alternate living conditions. Best of luck to your friend.

[Fuzzybear]

I agree with LMo. Thinking of you and your friend

[sabby]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Is she almost 18 or is she 12?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

She is a middle teen.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
How old is he - is he 20 or 40?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

He is more than 30 and less than 50.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
How long as he been an authority figure to her? Does HE see himself as an authority figure?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

He's been an authority figure for a long time and yes he sees himself as such.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
When you say she "didn't try to stop the man", what does that mean? She didn't freak out and scream, or she didn't show any discomfort or hesitation?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I would say both.

I hope this helps you LMo

I will hold off on my opinions here because my friend already knows what they are.


sabby

[sabby]

((((((((((( angie )))))))))))) Thank you very much for your reply and opinions.


sabby

[sabby]

((((((((((((( B B )))))))))))))))

Thank you very much for your post, opinions and support. I will be forwarding all posts to my friend so she can read them.

I'm sure she will be very thankful for everyone's input.


sabby

[sabby]

((((((((((((( wanttoheal ))))))))))))))))

Thank you so much for your input Much appreciated!


sabby

[LMo]

ok, I got as far as 'he's between 30 and 50' and 'she's a middle teen'.

I don't know about 'abuse', because to me, abuse has more to do with intent than effect.

But he definitely took unfair advantage of someone he should have recognized as being off-limits, and I do think that she should do what she needs to do to protect herself from this guy.

[sabby]

(((((((((((((((( fuzzy )))))))))))))))))))

Thank you hon for your support


sabby

Going by what I have read so far I would class this as drunken assault ! Has he attempted to say sorry to the girl and assure her this will never happen again ? Have they even talked about it ?

He should feel devestated that this has happend in my head. Depending on the outcome of the conversation it would then make my mind up as to whether she should report this or not......

[lenjan]

I cover courts, and people get slapped with criminal charges for this kind of stuff and generally end up in at least jail. (If they have a lengthier history of SA or there are extreme circumstances, they get prison.)

YES this is abuse. NO it is not her fault. I covered a trial of a guy who did similar things (and some worse) to a mentally disabled woman and he's rotting in prison for the next 10 years. In her limited understanding, she's still traumatized, which you could tell both by what she was able to express and by her sobbing at various points of testimony.

Also, depending on the circumstances, victims often don't "react" at the time, so that's not really a true criterion either for "is it abuse?"

Have your friend take this to her local DA and get the ball rolling on this creep. And see if prior court cases are online in your state to check him out.

I wish all of you peace, and good luck.

Candy

Edited to add that the guy who repeatedly assaulted the disabled woman was in a position of authority over her. It makes a difference.

Yes, he did take advantage of her because he is an authority figure. His job is to protect her from harm. He was supposed to protect her from guys like humself.....

When it happened, her emotions were probably overwhelming and confusing. Not really sure if it was scarey or exciting or horrible or cool or terrifying or flattering or nauseating. It's too much to process.

Right now she may be afraid of what might happen if she reports him. I would encourage her to talk to some adult at school - nurse, social worker, or teacher.

If she doesn't, the behavior will likely happen again, it may go further, and eventually others will find out another way - and that will be a real mess. I'm worried for your friend.

Please oh please talk to someone. Take care!!!!

Campy

[sabby]

(((((((((( Tishie ))))))))))))

Thank you very much for responding. Much appreciated!


sabby

[sabby]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
But he definitely took unfair advantage of someone he should have recognized as being off-limits, and I do think that she should do what she needs to do to protect herself from this guy.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I wholeheartedly agree LMo! Thank you again for responding!


sabby

[sabby]

((((((((((((( candybear ))))))))))))))

Thank you for your response. You are right, victims don't always react during the assualt. But it doesn't make it less of an assault just because there was no reaction against it.


sabby

[sabby]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Yes, he did take advantage of her because he is an authority figure. His job is to protect her from harm. He was supposed to protect her from guys like humself.....

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Exactly!!!!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
When it happened, her emotions were probably overwhelming and confusing. Not really sure if it was scarey or exciting or horrible or cool or terrifying or flattering or nauseating. It's too much to process.

Right now she may be afraid of what might happen if she reports him. I would encourage her to talk to some adult at school - nurse, social worker, or teacher.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I think you hit the nail on the head.

(((((( campanula )))))) Thank you for your insight and response.


sabby

[I_WMD]

mmmmmmmmm ???/ Quess this is one of those * Drunken sot ,, will see if it blows over . *.

Darn thing about that though is ,, the drunk does remember his whoas . [ Like pull in the reigns ].

But if it blows over ,,, than the chance remains he will tell himself simply ,,, she must have liked it and she never told .

And then Drunk again.

Now what ???>>>>>>>. If this was a fingers in privates ,, reproductive area ,,,... That is usually a lead up to penetration without excessive bleeding .

Ramifications are boundless here . Sabby ,,,, What if this child becomes pregnant in the near future as of this older Piece of _____________ .[ fill in the blank ].

As far as advice that is supportive ? ,,,>>> .. Sabby you know about this now . !!! You are close enough to know what ifs??. Pretty Much Your Call.

If it was me .......... I would contact local Police dept. Detectives and geta hold of the Assualt / rape detectives .. Females alot of the time . And have a 1 on 1 convo. They are the most counsoleing peeps as to these matters . You will not be the first person with the first instance of this ,,,, that they have ever met ...ok?

[sabby]

((((((((((( WMD )))))))))))) Thank you very much for your response here.

My friend and I have discussed this situation. She knows what my thoughts are on this and the suggestions I have made. I asked her if she would like other opinions regarding her situation and she agreed to hearing other thoughts.

It is a difficult situation.....no doubt about it. My friend is confused and scared and doesn't know in which way to turn. It's also a situation where she has to make the decisions on what she wants to do about it. I believe she needs to know that she can have some control over her situation as it stands now, including the ramifications of telling or not telling, since she wasn't given the chance to have control before.


sabby

[I_WMD]

Let your Friend know this then sabby ,,,, >>> ...

If the thought is repeat " I will Tell " ... That will work once maybe ,,,, Same scenario ........
Hasn't said anything yet ,,, Threat will never work .

And personally ,, I not believe this is the first time ,,, Just first time you learning of it .

So the threat is already [ as to tell ] moot.

[Perna]

I don't think it was abuse because something could have been done, even if she, herself, did not feel emotionally able to at the time. I would consider her an adult at 18. I do not think anything was her "fault" though, I would neither think badly of myself for having had this happen to me nor for not being able to stop it at that time. I would be grateful I was not raped. I would use my response to indicate to myself what I needed to work on, probably best with a therapist.

I would figure out how to remove myself from the situation, get away from any type of relationship or even contact with this man. I would tell someone I trusted what had happened, a teacher or good friend, therapist, etc. so that I could share my fear, anger, confusion, etc. and didn't have to carry it all myself.

I would work very hard to realize it was something that happened to me and was not part of Me. It was an unpleasant event in my life, not a reflection of me or my character.

I dreamt about this last night ..... not good ..... however scatch what I said before ! He took advantage pure and simple ! He is the authority figure he should never of done what he did ever ever ever. She needs to report this and do so soon as he could get 'drunk' again. Or maybe no drink next time just plain old fancy takes him.

Who knows how far it will go next time ? She has no choice from where I can see, which is sad I know but sometimes we have to grow up fast in life.