[Plutonian]

I haven't consumed any drugs, haven't been intoxicated in a little over three weeks now. My main problem was with illicit substances, never really had a problem with alcohol. When I would drink, I would usually have a drink or two, not enough to get drunk, just feel a little elated, have conversation with friends. That would happen maybe once a week, once every two weeks, usually less than that, rarely more than that. Occasionally, maybe once every three or so months, I'd actually get drunk, have four plus drinks in one night. Didn't drink 'cause I felt sad or anxious, or to escape from anything like I did with other drugs. Was mostly just a social drinker. Never really cared for being drunk, one of the worst ways to get intoxicated from my experiences. Since I've quit using drugs, I haven't been drinking either. Figured may as well stay away from alcohol too, don't want to trade one bad habit for another. Concerns with, "well, I know I didn't drink much in the past, but that was because I was usually too intoxicated on other substances. Now that I've cut those substances out, what if I start drinking excessively to fill that void?"

Anyway, to the point. Last night I had a beer with my dad, just one. Felt nice, had a slight buzz. Tonight I had a martini with my mom, again, slight buzz. Now my question is, since I haven't had problems with alcohol in the past, is this considered breaking sobriety? I know alcohol is considered a drug as well, hence the concern. Also, would it be wise to try drinking like I used to during this period of cleansing from other substances? Or is the concern about picking up another bad habit enough to warrant not drinking at all?

Let's not kid ourselves, alcohol is a very potent drug too, albeit a legal one. And if you are having trouble with other mind-altering substances, I would definitely stay away from alcohol. Your addictive mind will tell you, oh don't worry, a couple now and then won't hurt, but then a couple will become more and before you know it, presto! you're addicted to another drug.

This is all personal experience...when alcohol wasn't enough for me, I tried coke. When coke wasn't enough, there were pills. Really the best thing is to nip this in the bud. And I don't know any alcoholics or other drug abusers who are able to just occasionally partake of drugs, either it's whole hog or nothing. All addiction is is your mind telling you that it's okay to pollute your body if it feels good; and your addictive mind conveniently forgets all the ugliness that accompanied your drugging. That's the nature of addiction and you would be wise to recognize that your addiction is still trying to get at you, through any means possible. Just stay away from all of it if you can. Good luck.

[madisgram]

good question, pluto. it's been said if we have a problem/addict/alcoholic, etc if we stop using the one we are in danger of substituting that drug for another. it is sometimes a common phenomenon for some. if you're using alcohol while you get cleansed imho you're not cleansing your body. this results in compounding our problem. it's like chasing the high elsewhere. for me abstinence for all drugs including alcohol has worked. hope this helps.

[Perna]

I think you would have to answer that for yourself, what you wanted, how you wanted to feel and how it affects you. I know that smoking and drinking can be related; doing one elicits doing the other, don't know your patterns and whether you would be tempted to go back to the drugs by allowing yourself an occasional drink.

If you do not like alcohol, that sets off a tiny alarm to me; you seem to accept "any" alcohol too? That seems a bit like you aren't paying attention, aren't drinking with "intent". If I were offered a martini or nothing, I'd take the nothing as I am primarily a beer drinker and don't like martinis. But I'd be thinking about it and paying attention to what I wanted, not just going along with whatever is happening, like it sounds like you are?

I would see if I could drink ice tea or lemonade, soda, etc. when I am with drinkers, see how that feels. If it is "uncomfortable", if I'd rather have the beer, martini, whatever, feel like I don't "fit in" or aren't being "sociable", I'd evaluate what seems a good idea for me to do based on my experience and desires for myself.

[Plutonian]

I don't like being drunk, it's a "dirty" intoxication, if that makes sense? Clouded mind, heavy body, no inhibitions on speech/actions, nausea/vomiting, etc all deter me from excessive alcohol use. I do like the taste of certain drinks, though. I usually just have one or two drinks, stop before I get drunk. The beer I had with my dad was a twist on one of my favorites. The martini with my mom was one I had never tried before, wanted to know what it tasted like, her friend had brought her some special syrup from France. So it's more about taste than intoxication. I guess that's why I'm wondering if drinking would be detrimental at this point. I do have the ability to turn down drinks, after the initial drink with my parents, I was offered another, refused it, then they offered another a little later and I refused again.

[roads]

Plutonian, you said (in your initial post to this thread), "Occasionally, maybe once every three or so months, I'd actually get drunk, have four plus drinks in one night."

Now, in the post above, you say, "I don't like being drunk, it's a "dirty" intoxication, if that makes sense? Clouded mind, heavy body, no inhibitions on speech/actions, nausea/vomiting, etc all deter me from excessive alcohol use. I do like the taste of certain drinks, though. I usually just have one or two drinks, stop before I get drunk."

To me, you sound like a periodic alcoholic--in denial.

And you are a self-confessed addict who said he came here to get/stay clean. For an addict three weeks is a stroll round the block.

Seriously, just whom do you think you're trying this out on?

I haven't consumed any drugs, haven't been intoxicated in a little over three weeks now.

How can you say that with, I'm guessing, a straight face, when you go on to tell us you've had a beer and a martini in the past two days?

[Perna]

From what I have read you to say, if your question were mine, Plutonia, I would say that drinking as you are accustomed would not affect my recovery from drug addiction.

But, I would still be careful; I don't know how drinking fit in with the drug addiction; whether you drank when you could not get drugs or were with people who did not do drugs, for example, and just "convenient" rather than pleasurable and safe for you.

Insofar as alcohol lessens one's inhibitions and depresses one, those do not sound very safe for you (in that occasionally you do get drunk despite not liking/wanting to) as it might be easier to feel one could have an occasional line of cocaine, say, after a drink and be less inclined to refuse. You do not sound like you have accepted responsibility for your drinking, are "playing" with it.

That you can turn down drinks is not all there is to drinking; binge drinkers can do the same, not think about or want to drink between binges. Being "excited" and curious about the taste of a "new" martini instead of, say, a fruit or vegetable you've never tried; I don't see very many lines in the sand that you have decided you do or do not want to cross nor enough "structure" to make me comfortable that not including drinking in with the other substances you use to abuse is a good idea at this time.

I recognize that my last sentence contradicts my first which is how I'm feeling about this :-) I'd be very very careful if you decide you wish to occasionally drink.

[madisgram]

after returning to this thread may i add one more thing. when i became an alcoholic it was recommended i not "squeak by" if a doc prescribed a barbituate/narcotic because it could set off my desire for eventually returning to my drug of choice-alcohol. thus i avoid any drugs except when they are absolutely necessary-operation for example. i had a friend who was a heroin addict. he switched to another drug telling himself it was ok cause it wasn't heroin. (denial) eventually/not long after- he found himself using heroin again. each attempt he made like this always took him back to heroin. sadly the final outcome was fatal.
but pluto only you an decide what to do. i'm glad you posted cause it seems you are unsure about the drinking. that could be a sign you are concerned.

[roads]

You say, Perna, that, "From what I have read you to say, if your question were mine, Plutonia, I would say that drinking as you are accustomed would not affect my recovery from drug addiction." You end with,"....I don't see very many lines in the sand that you have decided you do or do not want to cross nor enough "structure" to make me comfortable that not including drinking in with the other substances you use to abuse is a good idea at this time.
"I recognize that my last sentence contradicts my first which is how I'm feeling about this :-) I'd be very very careful if you decide you wish to occasionally drink."

I don't agree with the idea that even "very very careful" is sufficient caution after three weeks' sobriety and multiple addictions.

I would also hope that Plutonian & any others in his position would read the entirety of your post to catch the caution, not just the opening paragraph with its so graciously granted permission.

denial

d....dont

e.... even

n.... no (know)

i..... I

a.... am

l..... lying

[Plutonian]

Roadie, I'm not trying anything out, I'm genuinely concerned (and confused) about whether or not this is a good idea. I am here to get advice on this matter, gain insight from other people's experiences, not try something out on you. From the initial post: "Now my question is, since I haven't had problems with alcohol in the past, is this considered breaking sobriety? I know alcohol is considered a drug as well, hence the concern."

I was apprehensive about accepting drinks from my parents. My mom knows I used to smoke weed, but she doesn't know about heroin usage, phenobarb, dxm, coke, et al. I haven't told her about my overdoses, or my struggles with drug addiction. I told her I had quit smoking, wasn't drinking. Over the past three weeks, the several times I have visited with her, she has continuously offered me drinks and I have continuously refused and continuously told her I do not want alcohol and she kept at it: "Did you get so trashed that you don't want to drink anymore?" etc, calling me an alcoholic, being absolutely mean and as far from supportive about it when she doesn't even know 95% of my problems with drugs. A drink a night this past weekend to counteract the pressure from my own mother, plus trying out new tastes? Eh, I am weak there, I can admit that. I am terrible at dealing with her in a rational manner. I also like the tastes of many different foods, but I don't find myself overeating either... It's hard drugs that have me at a loss when it comes to moderation because they are so much more preferable to alcohol.

My brother has asked me on more than one occasion to smoke with him in the last three weeks, and I have done well in fighting off those temptations because I know how problematic smoking is for me. The main issue here: I don't seek alcohol out to fill the void of other drugs at this moment, and my concern is could I potentially get to that point if I drink moderately like I used to. Would it become as problematic as other substances in my life? And since I do not like being drunk, a major concern is would I end up returning to my drugs of choice from having an occasional drink because I don't like being drunk?

Obviously, these are things I have to ask myself and answer myself, but it's helpful to bounce these thoughts off of other people who have been there, done that.

I hear addiction talking here. It will find any chink in your armor and wheedle it's way back into you, using whatever means necessary to get you hooked again on your drug(s) of choice. For a long time, alcohol was really my only drug of choice. When it became more than a social activity I also found that I needed more than just alcohol on some occasions; alcohol just wasn't enough at times. That's when addiction really kicks into high gear. The addicted mind (and body) is no longer in the drivers seat. I stick to my original suggestion which is to do everything in your power to resist any of the drugs you mentioned, including alcohol. Trust me when I say it will end badly, sooner or later. Get some outside help if you can, it's a hard row to hoe by yourself. Again, good luck, I'm pulling for you.

[madisgram]

What’s wrong with Substituting an Addiction?

Often times a recovering addict may feel that their new behaviors are ok; what they are doing is just helping them to alleviate some stress. They may feel that they have everything under control, and that it is a once in a while thing. The real problem is the recovering addict’s behavior. While they may be free from their last addiction, they are still engaged in addictive activity and compulsive behavior.

http://www.thecabinchiangmai.com/sit...lthy-behavior/

Early Recovery:

The primary lesson to be learned in early recovery is deceivingly simple and that is abstinence from all mood altering drugs, including alcohol. It is only through removing the substance from the body, in giving the brain a chance to heal, does one have a chance of regaining normalcy in their life. In early recovery, one must gain a knowledge of addiction, begin to form a social support network, and work on a relapse prevention plan. All these activities are directed toward the goal of gaining the skills necessary to maintain abstinence over drugs and alcohol. Although each person is different, and there is no hard time line the early stage of recovery can last up to two years.

http://bostoncru.org/alcohol-and-dru...ecovery-2.html

Denial in Recovery/Defense mechanisms: Even during recovery, denial can occur. An example is the addict who says "I know I have to quit drinking, but I never had a problem with weed, so I can use a little of that."

http://www.egetgoing.com/drug_addiction/denial.asp

[roads]

Originally Posted by Plutonian

From the initial post: "Now my question is, since I haven't had problems with alcohol in the past, is this considered breaking sobriety? I know alcohol is considered a drug as well, hence the concern."

....

A drink a night this past weekend to counteract the pressure from my own mother, plus trying out new tastes? Eh, I am weak there, I can admit that. I am terrible at dealing with her in a rational manner. I also like the tastes of many different foods, but I don't find myself overeating either... It's hard drugs that have me at a loss when it comes to moderation because they are so much more preferable to alcohol.

My brother has asked me on more than one occasion to smoke with him in the last three weeks, and I have done well in fighting off those temptations because I know how problematic smoking is for me. The main issue here: I don't seek alcohol out to fill the void of other drugs at this moment, and my concern is could I potentially get to that point if I drink moderately like I used to. Would it become as problematic as other substances in my life? And since I do not like being drunk, a major concern is would I end up returning to my drugs of choice from having an occasional drink because I don't like being drunk?

Obviously, these are things I have to ask myself and answer myself, but it's helpful to bounce these thoughts off of other people who have been there, done that.

I've omitted parts of your post, to address it more briefly. gulas and madisgram have answered you well, but you addressed me who addressed you, and so ...

Part one: Yes, you totally threw out your three weeks' sobriety. Give me the chip back.

Plutonian, you said (in your initial post to this thread), "Occasionally, maybe once every three or so months, I'd actually get drunk, have four plus drinks in one night." I consider having in excess of four drinks, getting drunk, roughly four times a year alcoholic drinking and a drinking problem. If that were the whole story, I wouldn't consider it much of a deal if it weren't impacting your life (relationships, work, etc) in any way. Or rather, I'd say it's a problem, & you'll have to deal will it some day--hope you don't hurt/kill anyone first. You're in denial.

However, you're a multiple addict. You are, essentially ignorant of what that means. You have not gone through any rehab program, and you havent educated yourself about drugs and addiction. At this point, your chances of survival (forget sobriety, I'm talking just survival here) for the next five years are about fifty-fifty. Your age is still in your favor. But you are in such denial!

Part two: If you aren't mature enough to say NO to anyone, including your mother, when the appropriate answer for you is no, you'll never reach many of your goals. Be sure she's not an excuse for immaturity--moms make that so easy.

Don't compare tasting foods with tasting drinks. Wine "tasters" don't swallow--I'm guessing you did. Taste the ingredients in the drinks. Taste the drinks without the alcohol if it's the taste and absolutely not the alcohol that you're interested in. Don't kid yourself. That would be the worst thing you could do.

Part Three: the essence is ... You do drink excessively, about four times a year. The addiction switch is on in your brain. You're a multiple addict, and alcohol is among your addictions. You've been feeding on stronger drugs lately, but that doesn't make that alcohol addiction any less, in the absence of other drugs.

If all the drugs we've ever had are absent from us, I'm not sure we won't find something else that will satisfy ... and if we do, that I'm betting will become the new addiction.

SUMMARY: Alcohol is a drug. As a multiple addict with a history of alcohol abuse, you cannot use alcohol any more safely than you can use any of your other "drugs of choice" ever again in your lifetime. Addiction is a lifetime thing.

You are not detoxed from these drugs for varying periods for each drug; check on these with your doctor. Until then, you should not consider yourself "clean & sober."

I take this all One Day at a Time or 5 minutes. Everything is more central to my life than drug use. Life is good. I still fight the addiction, some days I fight for my life. So be it.

Roadie