I mean.. Its not that i dont beleive in a higher power, i do.

I know this is touchy.

But, i just sort of feel that by saying the prayer I would be falsifying as it wouldnt be what i beleive in.

I have been practising for 11 years and though I am openminded, my heart is in wicca/paganism and I highly doubt that I would change my religeon to go to a support group.

If i went, would they understand this?

Wat happens if you are a different religeon?

[ster]

yes they can and your higher power can be anything you desire. When I first went to AA I did not have one for a long time I used the group as my higher power. it can be a tree if that is what you want it to be. in the steps it says to a god of my understanding so it is your desicion as to what your higher power, it is meant to take control and give it to someone or something else. after all my best thinking got me to AA so I had to give it to someone or something else I used the steps.I used the serinity prayer for everything after all a higher power would know what I would need. I hope this has helped some.

[January]

(((((((((( Rainbowzz ))))))))))

AA states there is a belief in a higher power. It doesn't say what that higher power is. Of course you can go!

Good luck, hon. Let us know.

Hugs,

Jan

Thanks everyone.

I still dont know if i have a drinking problem or if the meds are making me loopy when i drink(effexor) since the problems I experience while drunk have only happened while on effexor. I figure though, it is worth it to go and give it a shot. Worse comes to worse, ill learn something anyways.

the good thing is i dont feel the need to keep drinking, like I dont feel compelled to drink all the time. I just have been having a tendancy to get very upset and crying and also triggering my dissociation when I drink ever since the effexor.

Ah, who knows? Maybe? I duno.

[Rhapsody]

Rainbow, if I may ask? - for my own FYI..... what exactly is the belief and practice of a Wiccan? I have heard of this religion, but I am not to educated on them.... THX.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[wi_fighter]

Rhapsody, I think this should answer your question.

Inappropriate Content

This is, first and foremost, a self-help support community. That means if your message (post or PM) isn't about offering support to another person or asking for it, it's potentially not appropriate for our community. Specifically prohibited from our community:

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[Rhapsody]

I am sorry if I offended any one, for that was not my goal - I was just wanting to better understand Rainbow and her life.... If she feels like answering me then she may post to me in PM.... if her answer on here is going to upset any further.

SORRY!!! - (and) PeACe.......

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[kimmydawn]

Yes, religion can be a touchy subject due to beliefs, dedication, etc.

Having said that, I would reinforce that the guidelines say to "limit" the discussion. I feel this thread is well within the guidelines as to its beginning thread and all of the responses.

If it were to get really detailed, or sparks would start to fly, then it would be better to take it to private. However, it's a good thread as I see it...start to finish.

If Rainbowzz wants to respond and give explanation, that's cool too. It's when a thread based on religion gets deeply involved in beliefs, opinion, rights and wrongs that it can sometimes cross the guidelines.

However, asking about a "higher power" for AA (and this being the substance abuse forum wherein AA and other recovery tools are discussed), and then explaining what that higher power might be to an individual should one choose to attend is fine, I think.

It's kinda up to the members where it goes from there.

Thanks!

KD

Everyone,

no worries, no worries.

no offence done to me
Rap, to be safe I will pm you with the basics and some links to check out FYI. That way were safe.

Though i do understand the stance of being very very careful. Religeon is an extremely personal thing and sometimes beleifs can clash. On this type of board I wholeheartedly agree it could get very messy.

Thanks wi and kimmy for keeping us safe and everyone else for your input!

[Rhapsody]

Thank YOU Rainbow and I am grateful that you took the time to educate me a little further about others in this world.... together we become stronger.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[mymindistoast]

You don't have to join the "circle" and recite the prayer. Some people choose to sit it out.

[Raynaadi]

There's a lot of people who only recite the Serenity Prayer. Many will join hands and not say the Lord's Prayer, but say their own prayer in their had. God is used because it's a universal word. But your HP can be anything. Don't let the whole God thing deter you from what the program and the fellowship have to offer. It's truly amazing!!!!

[downsolong]

Kimmyd, and others,

Any talk of AA /12step is inherently talk of religious/cult mindcontrol.

I would strongly suggest that anyone not wanting to experience the rapidly effective cult brainwashing of the 12step religion stay well away from AA and all it's clones. Agnostics, Humanists, Free Thinkers, Atheists, and others are strongly advised not to subject themselves to such a doctrinaire group which has no respect for your beliefs and will do it's best to break them and you down so that you can be open to conversion to the bait and switch 12step religion.

~Down

[shadowalker164]

“the rapidly effective cult brainwashing of the 12step religion”?

Man, I wish. I watch guys dieing on the installment plan, (read alcoholics) going through the revolving door that is AA every day. I have no interest in brainwashing anybody, but I wish AA, or any other path to recovery for that matter worked so well as that.

I would steer every wet drunk I know there. But we all know, or should know that most of us just die wet. It is a tragedy of the first order, and nothing seems to make much of a dent in it.

It would be so great if some mind control method was devised that would change raging alcoholics into productive and happy human beings. Anything is preferable to an alcoholic death. But if there is such a thing, I don’t know about it.

Richard

[(JD)]

It's scary to me when I agree with downsolong But, while I KNOW that AA has helped many, many people, I have concerns about the program, personally.

I know they say you only need a belief in a higher power (than you as a human) but then they limit that higher power. I feel that the negative aspect of you becoming/owning the alcoholism is sad. Believing that you are an alcoholic and will always be one, while I do understand what's behind this, IMO it's very pessimistic.

For example, I have allergies. One of my allergies is to molasses..and if I drink Rum, I become quite ill and have reactions. Because I would like to drink rum and cannot because of the results isn't something I need to "own" as a fault. It just is. I don't like the idea that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." While it might basically explain a truth, it doesn't need to be pasted on someone. Plenty of people live quite well without having to drink. It doesn't mean they don't wish to have a drink, and will have negative results if they drink, but that doesn't make them an alcoholic.

I guess I have problems with the labeling? Only with the labeling.

Sorry for the highjacking

[Raynaadi]

You're not an alcoholic so you don't understand and never will.

[(JD)]

I'm sorry you feel that was an attack on you or anyone. My issue is with the support group's control, that's all. No one should have to feel like they will be inferior ppl the rest of their lives, which, in my opinion is what happens.

Leaning upon a higher power gives all hope, imo! Limiting that power saddens me.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
You're not an alcoholic so you don't understand and never will.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> That hurts. I do think I understand, and no, I don't need to suffer from alcoholism to do that, imo.

[Rhapsody]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
_Sky said:

I feel that the negative aspect of you becoming/owning the alcoholism is sad. Believing that you are an alcoholic and will always be one, while I do understand what's behind this, IMO it's very pessimistic.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">


An addiction of any kind will always be a struggle for the person effected by it.... until the day they die - it will always be lingering behind the wall waiting to pounce on them.... waiting to return.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[Raynaadi]

"No one should have to feel like they will be inferior ppl the rest of their lives, which, in my opinion is what happens. "

Whoa..........I feel anything but inferior. And no, you can't understand if you're not an alcoholic, just like I can't understand someone who has just one drink. No one can understand what the program does for us unless they are an active part, or a supportive family member or friend. Who cares anyway? These meetings keep us from getting drunk and killing people, so really, who cares??

[Rapunzel]

I think that you both mean well and intend to be respectful of the other in this conversation, but it's starting to sound heated. Can we step back and look at it from the other's point of view before making another post, please?

My counseling class was just discussing this same issue, BTW. Alcoholism is one kind of addiction. There are many addictions including drugs, eating disorders, behavioral addictions, gambling, bad habits, thought patterns, etc. Everyone probably does have experience with some kind of addiction. The other thing that was said in class is that we can have empathy (which means to understand what it might feel like to be in someone else's shoes) without being them or having their experiences. Still, sometimes it rubs the wrong way when someone implies that they know what it feels like to be you, especially when you disagree with them and what they are saying.

[Rhapsody]

[mymindistoast]

If someone is being required to attend AA, then I have a problem with that.

If AA is not your thing, you can respect those who do attend such meetings by not going.

I don't believe people no longer think for themselves just because they attend AA meetings.

Technically, does AA fall under religion? Is it inappropriate to discuss at Psych Central?

If so, alcoholism can be discussed without any references specifically to AA.

I'm a bright

http://the-brights.net/

that doesn't imply that people who aren't brights are stupid any more than the term gay implies that people who aren't gay are dull ;-)

as such i have difficulty with the aa / na program.

yes they typically say your higher power can be anything you like but requisites on the higher power seem to be that
1) your higher power is going to be interested in hearing you confess your sins (requirement of a later step)
2) your higher power can help you (sounds like an external agency who cares enough to help)
in short... as the steps progress the conception of the higher power starts looking increasingly... christian.

i don't believe in supernatural forces. hence... i don't have a higher power in the required sense.

but i get the feeling one must be careful... one country under god and co... i get the feeling one must be careful...

the aa / na program helps a lot of people and that is great :-)
for those who find the steps a little hard to take...
you might want to check out 'Rational Recovery' for meetings near you
(it is more CBT based so there can be some problems there... but at least your recovery isn't at the whim of a higher power)

;-)

[ster]

this is for me. I went to aa because I did not have anywhere to go, I thought I did not know what was out there, but I knew I could not live the way I was. and my best thinking got me there ( in aa) I can safely say your best thinking got you to be in AA. You can deny it all you want. but your best thinking got you to be placed in AA.

> I can safely say your best thinking got you to be in AA. You can deny it all you want. but your best thinking got you to be placed in AA.

sorry, are you talking about you
or are you talking about me?
i wouldn't dare tell you what your best thinking was...
but i think i've heard something similar...
at aa / na even.

i think different treatments tend to work differently for different people
medication x might be best for one and medication y for another
therapy t for another person and therapy p for another
self help all the way for the next
and so on and so forth

take what works and leave the rest

but i do think it is a shame when someone goes with one thing because they think they are completely out of options...

but then so long as that option works i guess it doesn't matter...

it is just when that option doesn't work

then it is great to know there are still more options out there...

just meaning to say some words of support
to all the brights (or potential brights who didn't know there was such a thing out there)
to all those who might be struggling with the idea that aa / na is the only way and without aa / na one is on the road to jails, institutions, and death (as the aa / na literature tells people)

just saying... there are options
and i think that is great.