[shortandcute]

I'm a recovering alcoholic. I go to AA, but I'm kind of starting to wonder if it's the place for me. I'm not knocking AA in general, I think the idea of it is great. But I feel like I get more help out of therapy and medication. Plus, a lot of people that go to the meetings I go to are sort of stoic, and criticize people who need outside help. I know that's not the way it was intended to be, because AA "technically has no opinion on outside issues (which to me includes psychiatry)." And the big book does talk about getting outside help. But like I said, the people in the meetings think all you have to do is work the steps.

What do many of yu feel or think?

[regretful]

To borrow an over-used line from many therapy books, "any shelter in a storm will do", meaning that if you get something out of therapy and meds, continue with them. If AA is a good adjunct, stay with it. I did therapy and meds; I tried AA and found it wasn't for me. If people are critical in the meetings you attend, you could always try a different meeting. Just my two cents...

AA did not work for me either ...

I find that talk therapy, art therapy and play therapy has always worked best for me.

Find what works best for you and stick with it.

That's all that's required ...

Oh! ... And remember to be Patient, Gentle & Kind with yourself along the way!

[gayleggg]

I went to a related AA group and found it very helpful. But I found no negativity in the group I went to and many were seeing therapists and psychiatrists. It just all depends on the group you get into. Not all are negative about other mental health treatments.

[JadeAmethyst]

I tried both AA and Al Anon, but was in a bad state at the time, so wasn't for me....but it was worth a try and I learned a lot from the experience, just depends on the day, meds and group I'm guessing.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by shortandcute

I'm a recovering alcoholic. I go to AA, but I'm kind of starting to wonder if it's the place for me. I'm not knocking AA in general, I think the idea of it is great. But I feel like I get more help out of therapy and medication. Plus, a lot of people that go to the meetings I go to are sort of stoic, and criticize people who need outside help. I know that's not the way it was intended to be, because AA "technically has no opinion on outside issues (which to me includes psychiatry)." And the big book does talk about getting outside help. But like I said, the people in the meetings think all you have to do is work the steps.

What do many of yu feel or think?

That's tough. I have dual diagnosis. I have done both AA and meds and therapy. A dual diagnosis group I went to was the best. I absolutely love AA and it is a very powerful program. It saved my life and has kept me sober for 18 years. I have worked to steps over and over applying it to my depression. Guess what....didn't work. There are a ton of people in AA with mental illnesses. I found a support group within AA with people who also have mental illness. Most people are afraid to talk about it for the reasons you mention. But if you just mention you suffer from depression in a meeting you will get a bunch of people after the meeting that will come up to you in private and say hey I have that too. The more people you meet like that the more you have this support group of people in AA but outside the rooms.

I don't think you should give up on AA. It will keep you sober and that is what it is for. You are absolutely right and the traditions say we have no opinion on outside issues so the assholes can keep their opinions to themselves. And if they don't you ignore them. If you are brave tell them exactly what you think of their opinion. And you are absolutely right that the book says to seek out side help. It actually tells you "we know only but a little, more will be revealed". To not shy away from the expertise of the medical and religious community, to take advantage of it. Medical includes mental health. Go to step studies. You will actually find many many more people who are understanding and supportive than assholes. They are quieter and the assholes are loud. Ignore the assholes and seek out the ones who understand and will support you . I guarantee you will find them.

I started in 1995. Treatment centers were kind of the new thing. I went to one. The old timers in AA hated us newcomers coming in from the treatment centers with all our new fangled ideas and blaming the parents, and talking about drugs like coke and meth. Co dependence and adult child of alcoholics was all new and the old timers didn't like it. And we talked about drugs alot and they didn't like it, it was an outside issue. AA is about alcohol and thats what it says in the steps and in the book. They were right. Alot of them had never done drugs. But us new guys didn't care addiction is addiction is addiction and it doesn't matter the drug. Once in awhile and old timer who had done drugs would stick up for us and talk about his drug use. You know what AA changed. Now it is basically just accepted by everyone that it is OK to talk about drugs in AA. Used to be big taboo.

I used to get really pissed about the mental health thing too. I still have resentments and will avoid meetings because I have been sober so long and my biggest problem is depression. I had a huge problem with depression then too. Once I got some time under my belt and worked the steps and felt a little more confident I started talking about my depression in meetings and even talking about being on meds. The old timers would get pissed and say outside issue outside issue. Then a lot of people who don't have mental illness and don't understand wouldn't like it. Some would even say that if you are psyche meds you are not sober. It someone said that they were pretty much told my a bunch of people that they were full of **** and to shut the hell up. If you are brave go in there and talk about it in open meetings. If not ignore the ignorant ones and find the ones who understand, but don't leave.

Be part of the change. Part of the solution not the problem. AA evolves, it changes. It changed about drugs, and ACOA issues and codependency issues and it is changing about mental health issues. I have witnessed it. Go to different meetings. Seek those who will support you they are there I promise.

If someone tells you that you are not sober because you are taking meds tell them to go **** themselves.

[Altered Moment]

I'm a recovering alcoholic. I go to AA

You have to be honest about how bad your drinking or using was. What brought you to AA in the first place? I think some of the people responding may not be alcoholic/addicts.

[Altered Moment]

When I first went AA in 1995 I jumped in full bore for 8 years Alanon too. Then I quit going to meetings for 5 years. I came very very close to full blown relapse. It really scared me and I got my butt back to meetings. I have seen it happen over and over. Someone comes back into the rooms and say they relapsed and it ended up way worse than it was before. And they will say the number one reason they relapsed is that they quit going to meetings. I have 18 years but I don't at all think I am an old timer. But ask any old timer and they will tell you the same thing. Right now it has been over a year since I have been to a meeting. I have had very severe depression this last year and a half and haven't even wanted to leave the house. These forums have really helped because I don't have to leave the house. Also I stay in touch with other people by text and facebook. I have really been focusing on treating depression.

I am not kidding myself though, the longer I say away the higher my chances for relapse. Many times it does not happen right away. Relapse is a process. Sometime people drink a six pack and nothing happens and they think they are fine. Unless you intervene somewhere in that process it is gonna end ugly. Sometimes it take five years sometimes 10 but all the time people come back into the rooms and say I relapsed and it got real ugly and worse than before and that they think it because they quit going to meetings and got unplugged. If you were a hard core alcoholic/ drug addict like I was that is just how it is.

[splitimage]

I go to AA and have mixed feelings about it. I do find the support from other people helpful and I found working the steps gave me insight into myself.

But like someone else said, every group is slightly different. I finally found a home group where I can be open about my MI and no one says boo. But I've run into the anti-meds attitude with a lot of people.

My best solution is to attend double recovery meetings. They're a spin off of AA but are for people with mental health and addiction issues. I much prefer them to AA.

However, in the past couple of years, my main program of recovery is Women for Sobriety, just google them if your female. There program is more CBT based and focusses on taking responsibility for your life, and working to build a better life for yourself.

splitimage

[Perna]

I would look around, see if there were any other AA groups near you which might operate differently, have a different set of people in them? That's if you want to continue with AA. I think there are multiple ways to get help; self, AA, others (therapy/medicine/psychiatry); my brother was in a halfway house until it closed and then just did "cold turkey" and has been sober for the last 35 or so years.

[Altered Moment]

Yes I have to admit there are other ways. My Dad did it cold turkey for 25 years and never an AA meeting. I cannot explain it.

I have very strong feelings on AA because it saved my life and kept me sober. It has been proven to work for millions of people. (if you work it). Why argue with something with such a good track record. And I have done dual diagnosis. I had to get a lot of outside help due to very bad depression. I tried to apply AA to it but it didn't work. There was dual diagnosis treatment with a heavy emphasis on the steps in CA when I had Kaiser insurance. It was very good. In the small town I am in now in Michigan there is hardly anything. I think someone recently started a group but I don't know if anyone attends, I have not went. So a lot depends on where you live and what resources are available.

My main point here is that I hate to see someone get run out of the rooms because of some ignorant a holes. Especially if they like AA. Fight back against the ignorance but if you can't do that find a group or a set of people in AA that will help you and ignore the a holes.

[Altered Moment]

And again if someone tells you that you are not sober because of psyche meds, even benzo's, tell them to go **** themselves. They are ignorant.

[DePressMe]

I was only 15 when I first became involved in AA and I was around the tables off and on for many, many years. The groups in my town were horrible and the members caused me a lot of pain and suffering...it changed the course of my life for the worse. Some people benefit from AA and that's fine for them. Personally, I wish I would have never reached out for help from AA because in the long run it created even more problems for me that I had to eventually overcome to get sober.

I've been sober over 9 years now...I think its 9, I've lost track. That's the nice thing about how my "recovery" works for me now--I don't have to work at it all the time. Being sober is how I am now. It feels natural to be sober so I don't even think about keeping track anymore. In the beginning, especially that horrendous 1st year, it was something I had to work hard on and it was constantly on my mind 24/7. At first, I had to learn how live sober, then I practiced at it and eventually, as the years passed, it just became a way of life.

For the most part, I consider myself to be free from the chains of addiction. I'm no longer controlled by my addictive impulses or tormented by the thoughts of an alcoholic mind. I've fully realized and accepted the consequences caused by my past alcoholic behavior and no longer feel guilty about it. It took a long time for me to get over the regret I felt for all the lost opportunities and for wasting so many years of my life.

Am I still an alcoholic? Well, in some sense, yes, because I know that I would revert to alcoholic behavior and thinking if I decided to drink again. But, in some ways, no because I don't think or act like an alcoholic anymore. Maybe, I'm more like a "alcoholic-potential." The good thing is that today I have the choice to drink or not....and, I no longer want or need to drink. My life is not perfect but its sooo much better...

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by DePressMe

I was only 15 when I first became involved in AA and I was around the tables off and on for many, many years. The groups in my town were horrible and the members caused me a lot of pain and suffering...it changed the course of my life for the worse. Some people benefit from AA and that's fine for them. Personally, I wish I would have never reached out for help from AA because in the long run it created even more problems for me that I had to eventually overcome to get sober.

I've been sober over 9 years now...I think its 9, I've lost track. That's the nice thing about how my "recovery" works for me now--I don't have to work at it all the time. Being sober is how I am now. It feels natural to be sober so I don't even think about keeping track anymore. In the beginning, especially that horrendous 1st year, it was something I had to work hard on and it was constantly on my mind 24/7. At first, I had to learn how live sober, then I practiced at it and eventually, as the years passed, it just became a way of life.

For the most part, I consider myself to be free from the chains of addiction. I'm no longer controlled by my addictive impulses or tormented by the thoughts of an alcoholic mind. I've fully realized and accepted the consequences caused by my past alcoholic behavior and no longer feel guilty about it. It took a long time for me to get over the regret I felt for all the lost opportunities and for wasting so many years of my life.

Am I still an alcoholic? Well, in some sense, yes, because I know that I would revert to alcoholic behavior and thinking if I decided to drink again. But, in some ways, no because I don't think or act like an alcoholic anymore. Maybe, I'm more like a "alcoholic-potential." The good thing is that today I have the choice to drink or not....and, I no longer want or need to drink. My life is not perfect but its sooo much better...

Hmmm. I am very sorry you had that experience.
What did they do to cause you harm?

My experience was that I found the vast majority of people loving, caring, accepting, and helpful. Different people had different theories about how to help people though. Some people were the in your face tell you what to do type. "Do that 4th step or you are gonna die kid". I was 32 when I went in and not a kid. I didn't like those people and I had my own sponsor thanks anyway. A lot of people will say that they rely on their friends in AA to call them on their BS and tell them when they are screwing up and tell them what to do. That doesn't work so much for me because I am so rebellious. If you told me what to do I would most likely ignore you or maybe even tell you to **** off. I am pretty emotionally resilient and have a thick skin. You have to be when you come up the construction industry. Show any weekness and your peers are going to jump on you.

Then there is the fact that there are a lot of sick people in AA. Just because you got sober doesn't mean you are all well and wonderful. A drunk liar cheat and thief is still a liar cheat and thief sober. A lot of sick relationships. That is part of the miracle of the program though. A bunch or drunks and sick people can get together and help eachother stay sober and grow as a person.

My nephew went in when he was 16. He had a hard time at first because there was no one else his age. And some of the older people who had lost everything before they got sober would say...c'mon 16 years old, how could he have possibly hit a bottom. He didn't have anything to lose yet and he can't really be an alcoholic so young. He was drinking bottles of cough syrup (whatever that is all about) and almost killed himself one night in a depression and a lot of stuff. Everyones bottom is different and his was as valid as anyones. He reached out to the youngest people in his town in AA. Most of them in their early 20's. He is 22 now and all gung hoe AA. His Dad his uncle (me) and his grandpa are all alcoholics in recovery. So he figured he was screwed genetically. We were all a sober example. That is what is called breaking the chain of generational addiction. In the town I got sober in there was a group of young people who stuck together like glue. They started their own meeting and it is still going strong today.

Don't let a couple of a holes run you out of the rooms. Find people you can relate to and that will help you and reach out to them. I know AA is not for everyone and not the only way but it does have the best proven track record. No way I could stay sober on meds and therapy alone most people can't.

[Altered Moment]

I know I have strong views on the matter. Probably from being in AA for so many year. But I will say one more thing and shut up. It is all just my opinion.

If you are a hard core alcoholic addict like I was and you go to AA to get sober and get some clean time and then quit going to meetings it is dangerous. Maybe you will be totally five....but maybe you won't. Why risk it. Or try NA. I even went to Alanon for many years when I was burnt out on AA and didn't go to as many meetings.

[Altered Moment]

So I often wonder if someone asks a question is a post and get a bunch of response, do they ever come back and read the thread. shortandcute is a super poster so not new to the site, but no response, so do they read it and just not respond?

I am very curious about what she thinks and how she is doing. This seems to happen a lot in threads. Like one mom who came here looking for opinions about her depressed son. Got tons of responses and never responded herself. Did she even read them? Maybe she didn't like what we had to say. We were kind of hard on her.

[shortandcute]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

So I often wonder if someone asks a question is a post and get a bunch of response, do they ever come back and read the thread. shortandcute is a super poster so not new to the site, but no response, so do they read it and just not respond?

I am very curious about what she thinks and how she is doing. This seems to happen a lot in threads. Like one mom who came here looking for opinions about her depressed son. Got tons of responses and never responded herself. Did she even read them? Maybe she didn't like what we had to say. We were kind of hard on her.

Thinking a little bit too hard, maybe?

Well said!, shortandcute ... Well said!

Over the top, gung-ho AA members are often referred to as "AA NAZI's" for a reason.

These are exactly the kinds of people I don't want or need in my life and it all started with my family of origin way back when. So if I wanted to re-experience that kind of "group think", I reckon It'd be easier to just go on back to where it all started.

But I've come to find it's simply better to stay away from all of that trauma & drama and to simply find what works best for me in a more patient, gentle & kind environment.

I wish you good health & good healing, shortandcute ...

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by shortandcute

Thinking a little bit too hard, maybe?

Well you nailed it. I am a little manic on my new meds (thank god they are working though) and I can't stop thinking. Plus i am not working and I think I am addicted to these forums.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by Pfrog

Well said!, shortandcute ... Well said!

Over the top, gung-ho AA members are often referred to as "AA NAZI's" for a reason.

These are exactly the kinds of people I don't want or need in my life and it all started with my family of origin way back when. So if I wanted to re-experience that kind of "group think", I reckon It'd be easier to just go on back to where it all started.

But I've come to find it's simply better to stay away from all of that trauma & drama and to simply find what works best for me in a more patient, gentle & kind environment.

I wish you good health & good healing, shortandcute ...

I respect you opinion and experience. I don't have much knowledge about the other methods people have used to stay sober. I only know of my Dad going cold turkey for 25 years with no AA and no treatment of any kind. I would not call him a dry drunk at all like many in AA would. There are lots of new theories and methods I guess especially in dual diagnosis. But I do not have much knowledge. Just my own experience.

If you really knew me you would never call me an AA Nazi or a big book thumper. Quite the opposite in fact. I admitted I haven't been to a meeting in over a year.

What I get so passionate about and what triggered me was ignorant people in AA pushing people with dual diagnosis out of the rooms. I dealt with those people for many years and they really piss me off, and I would hate to see someone quit going just because of these people. That was the original issue. People have told me I wasn't sober because of meds. She asked for opinions on...........and I got fired up about it. I am sorry.

If it isn't for you it isn't for you.

[Altered Moment]

in a more patient, gentle & kind environment.

I found AA and Alanon to be a patient, gentle, and kind environment with some exceptions so our experience is different.

I only shared my experience and opinion. You totally have a right to your opinion and experience but I really do not appreciate being called an AA Nazi. Nazi is a very strong term.

I believe the title of the post was " opinions on AA and other 12 step programs". If I got over zealous then i apologize.

[shortandcute]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

Well you nailed it. I am a little manic on my new meds (thank god they are working though) and I can't stop thinking. Plus i am not working and I think I am addicted to these forums.

no worries--I've been pretty manic myself lately.

Originally Posted by Pfrog

Well said!, shortandcute ... Well said!

Over the top, gung-ho AA members are often referred to as "AA NAZI's" for a reason.

These are exactly the kinds of people I don't want or need in my life and it all started with my family of origin way back when. So if I wanted to re-experience that kind of "group think", I reckon It'd be easier to just go on back to where it all started.

But I've come to find it's simply better to stay away from all of that trauma & drama and to simply find what works best for me in a more patient, gentle & kind environment.

I wish you good health & good healing, shortandcute ...

Right on!! Couldn't agree more. And depressme, u are very courageous to open up like that. Oh man I'm thinking about the AA hugs, ewwww.

[Altered Moment]

So I am the only one around here who has had a positive experience with AA. I know the addiction section of this forum is not very active at all and this is primarily a mental health forum but I can't believe I am the only one.

And I don't think it is fair or accurate to call it "group think"

Thinking individuals voluntarily choose to go to AA. They can choose to adopt the philosophy or not. Take what they like and leave the rest. Most who choose to stay decide that the steps and traditions make sense to them.

You could say that "group think" is true for a lot of cultures or segments of society. Golf, curling, psychology, bio chemistry, physics. There are agreed upon methods and principles. Any organization with a mission statement and by laws could be said to have "group think". Not everyone agrees on everything and there is debate but that is true for AA as well. There is debate about mental illness and whether it should be talked about in meetings or is it an outside issue. Many many in AA have dual diagnosis. I think it should be openly talked about in meetings. Some disagree. It is a healthy debate and things evolve. I would argue that alcoholism/addiction is itself a mental illness. Drugs, dysfunctional families, and codependency was new and tabboo at one time. Now it is openly talked about. AA is based on the steps and traditions and a certain philosophy in the book. They are very sound and have much in common with many other philosophies and principles including psychology. Then you have a bunch of sick people trying to apply them.

[shortandcute]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

I found AA and Alanon to be a patient, gentle, and kind environment with some exceptions so our experience is different.

I only shared my experience and opinion. You totally have a right to your opinion and experience but I really do not appreciate being called an AA Nazi. Nazi is a very strong term.

I believe the title of the post was " opinions on AA and other 12 step programs". If I got over zealous then i apologize.

I don't think the OP was referring to you in particular.