opinions on AA and other 12 step programs

I certainly got the impression she was.

I, too, got sober in AA, but that was only after I put the work into it. But I have seen people run out of meetings, and it sickens me.

The main group in my small town used to have a lot of people who also went to NA and other meetings. Most if them would call themselves alcoholics at the AA meetings and addicts at the NA meetings-- neither was a lie because they had problems with both drugs and alcohol. When some of them would introduce themselves, they'd say "I'm an alcoholic and an addict." There was a core group of oldtimers who always referred to them as "and-a's" and said if you haven't figured out what you are you aren't being honest with yourself. Something came up in a business meeting about one of the "and-a's" chairing a 'closed' meeting.

We had a speaker meeting and potluck dinner the last Sunday of each month.
There were about 50 people there two days before this particular business meeting. The next month there were five.

This was my home group. I watched it disintegrate before my eyes. I was DCM at the time, so I was heavily involved in dealing with the fallout. Those who left the first meeting began starting their own groups; other groups in the district began taking sides, and some of them split into two or more groups; some of the new groups lasted; some eventually merged; most groups just disappeared along with the people in them. Some people drank or used again. Some of them haven't made it back to the rooms yet. Some never will.

To this day, I wonder if things could have gone differently, but I think it was something that was already brewing for a long time. I don't go to meetings regularly anymore. My sponsor died a couple of years ago, and I haven't got a new one. I don't read the big book much. I do still practice the principles of the program, and I do still reach out to other alcoholics, speak at treatment centers, and other 'twelfth step' work. And I have a great respect for the Traditions AA and the Statement of Responsibility.

There is an entire chapter in the big book titled Problems Other Than Alcohol. Bill Wilson worked tirelessly with the medical and psychology communities. NA branched off from AA; it did not copy or hijack the program. There are AA purists who tend to forget those things, who forget that there is no one right way to work the program, and who tend to forget that AA did not invent sobriety.

There are also too many people in the rooms who aren't there to get sober, and others who may be sober, but still act like they're in a bar. Some go for the free coffee. Some treat it like a social club. Some treat it like a singles' mixer.

To those who have had bad experiences with AA meetings, I'm sorry that happened. That's not AA. I hope if you decide to come back you find a meeting where you can feel comfortable. But most of all, I hope you realize that-- whether it's through AA, treatment, counseling, or religion-- you can get and stay sober in spite of a crotchety oldtimer or two, in spite of anyone, even in spite of yourself.

Ahhh the old get a resentment and start your own new group. I have been on steering committees and those and business meetings always had the most drama. We always argued about some issue or another. The latest was bringing your kids to a meeting. I was for it because it is the only way some people can get to a meeting and I have never really seen them be disruptive. Then there is Iphones in meetings and people snapping pictures. Obviously no one should be taking pictures in an anonymous group.

My experience in CA is that pretty much everyone talks about drugs and alcohol in meetings now, it is just accepted. I always just say I am an alcoholic out of respect but I can't really share my story without talking about drugs because it was so much apart of my experience and so tied in with my drinking.

What you describe is hard to see in a small town. Big towns can deal with that a lot better there are so many groups. Emgreen pointed out to me that a lot of people will have more trouble in a small town because there are less meetings and a core group of people. That is true in the town I am in now. If you don't feel you fit in you are kind of SOL. Yes there are cliques with the popular people and the 13th step and all that. That's part of the miracle to me is that a bunch of sick people can get together and help each other stay sober. And AA evolves and more will be revealed.

I am also not very involved these days. I am amazed at the amount of 12th step work I can do outside the rooms. It seems to seek me out.

Can you copy and paste in my thread. I am trying to collect both experiences. Same thread really but.....

http://forums.psychcentral.com/addic...nce-aa-na.html

I live in a small town and that's pretty much how it is here. I don't drive so I can't make it to other meetings on a regular meetings-the ones here I can pretty much walk to because it's such a small town.

I have been attending AA meetings since 1999. At the beginning I found them very helpful and members were my sole social network. Now, with this current depression, I still go to many AA meetings but they just don't seem to be helping my current state any. People from 12 step meetings remain 99% of my social network.

When I was a 12 stepper, I noticed a lot of bigotry and "better-than" attitudes amongst the various groups that I attended but came to see that the literature and promises are not universally accepted or honored so I just decided to stay with the groups and people I felt comfortable with and ignore all the jealousy, fear and bigotry that existed in those so-called Recovery groups.
After all, my recovery was up to me and my dedication to it - not to some group! As far as I am concerned, Recovery can come from any place or any thing if I am open and willing to accept it so I never had a sponsor, home group or other affiliations although I got a lot of support and help from just going to meetings and listening to others process and successes.
My latest discovery is exactly how the 3rd step can open up the entire Universe if I will just let go, surrender and TURN IT OVER like the step says.
Thanks for letting me share here

to me i took AA as listen and express, not 12 steps or surrender to higher power. Going into AA i already believed in God, and i will look and read one day about the 12 steps but when im ready to look into it. and if the people there knock you for outside help then in truth find another AA meeting cause AA is about support, and if they dont support you in getting help then you shouldnt be around them.

P.S. With AA im also going to a Chem treatment class so i am getting outside help too, my problems go why farther than just Alcohol or substance

You have to be careful that it is not your addiction telling you those people are critical members of AA. Your addiction could be trying to set you up for a relapse by getting you out of those meetings. DON'T STOP GOING TO MEETINGS. Talk to your therapist and practice what he or she suggests.

I used to be really hard on myself and my therapist suggested that I pat myself on the back for something that went well, or something important that I accomplished like going to an appointment at the Social Security office. I started doing what she suggested and it changed the way I talk to myself. I also read a lot of self-help stuff online.

Read this article which talks about the lies we tell ourselves: The Lies Your Mind Tells You to Prevent Life Changes : zenhabits

I was sober once and I started a business, and I was doing really well, but as soon as I stopped going to AA meetings I relapsed. You have to be really careful about what you are noticing at these meetings. Maybe you can change your focus and look for the good in people.

I agree! If we really want to get clean and sober, we won't let some idiots ruin our sobriety. I get a lot out of speaker meetings where someone tells his or her story for 30-45 minutes.

Is this post ok to discuss Al-Anon? I went to my first meeting tonight and was super uncomfortable. Social anxiety, all eyes on me, curious silences as if inviting me to speak, people getting all touchy-freely and holding hands and hugging, and standing in a circle linking hands and reciting the serenity prayer which I refused to do.

Yes I have been co-dependent (whatever that is) my whole life, yes I was involved long term with 3 different alcoholics, and yes I relished playing the long-suffering martyr for taking care of these men who were not capable of loving me. And after I split from the last one my mood fell into the toilet within 3 months and after 7 months I was practically catatonic. My friend said I was addicted to his chaos and his behavior, and that I was sicker than him and it would take me longer to heal.

Acknowledging that I could not control their drinking or their behavior just made me more ashamed of my acceptance of that treatment for 20+ years, since the only behavior I can expect to control is my own. That makes me feel like a huge failure.

Anyway at the end of the meeting they all looked expectantly at me so I gave a bit of my story, red faced and literally cringing from nerves and shame. Ran out of there like my *** was on fire. My friend who talked me into going said she was really shocked that I spoke, as they expect you to listen and absorb for the first 6 or 8 meetings. Gee thanks for the heads up 30+ year member, I feel really stupid right now. And why the curious glances and expectant silence if they didn't expect to hear from me?

So logically I decided I hated it, and have to miss the meeting next week since I have therapy. There's another group near my office who meet on Mondays, so we are going together to that one. I am trying to keep an open mind but I really hated the experience tonight. Anyone else?

This time I'll be better prepared for touchy-freely and hugs and praying out loud, and I'll bite my tongue until it bleeds before I say anything other than hello.

Do these meetings really help people like me, who blame themselves for their circumstances and are ashamed of telling the world how long they accepted maltreatment?

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Yes, it's fine to talk about Al-Anon here. Some people get a lot out of it, while others don't.

I found Alanon helped me a great deal. My case is a little different. I was a member of AA for a number of years and was getting a little burnt out. When I got sober i found out I had lots of co dependent issues that were covered up by the drinking. I grew up with an alcoholic father and found out we take on certain roles and masks. Martyr, Victim, Scape Goat, Peace Maker, Rescuer, Clown, Hero, Lost Child, Care Taker, etc etc.

Alanon allowed me to recognize those behaviours and change them. I still have a really hard time with peacemaker and conflict between two people makes me very uncomfortable and I want to fix it to take away my discomfort. I have to keep telling myself over and over that it is not my place and none of my business. Rescuer was the biggest one for me when new in recovery. I got past that one.

It was a little awkward at first as some of the new members in Alanon viewed me as the enemy coming into their sanctuary because I am an alcoholic. They got to know me though and liked me and realized I needed it too. I didn't quit AA I just went to both.

There is no rule on when to share or not share. That is totally up to you. Often I have had no intention of sharing and then someone says something that makes it so I can't wait to share. The huggy, touchy, and prayer stuff didn't bother me so that was not an obstacle.

Thanks Zinco! I am very uncomfortable in any social situation, always have been, and would have preferred to slink unannounced through the back door and sit quietly. The group was small and they were all very welcoming and made sure to address me individually, which is wonderful for other people but pure torture for me.

I have my own limitations, and I went in with a friend to bolster me, and I was still ashamed and embarrassed the whole time. I don't feel comfortable praying aloud, I don't feel comfortable touching strangers, and I don't feel comfortable having all the eyes in the room on me. I don't like admitting that I have lived over half my life in dysfunction, and that I repeatedly was a punching bag and an enabler for the men in my life that were not capable of caring for me the way I deserve. Even more shameful is that I brought up two children in that environment, and aside from physical and mental abuse, one of those men sexually abused my oldest daughter.

Even though NONE of those people know any of those secrets, I felt like I was judged and found guilty of my poor choices within the 1st five minutes of the meeting. "You can't control anyone but yourself." Something that is said to give comfort to people brought shame to me, and that is something that I have been working through on my own and with my T.

I feel like this group and this approach could be helpful to me later, when I'm free of some of my mental blocks. But last night just reinforced my poor opinion of myself and made me feel even more ashamed and disgusted with myself. Suddenly it didn't seem helpful. . .

I am very similar. I usually pick the biggest AA meeting I can find because I feel more anonymous in a crowd. Alanon meetings are always smaller and more intimate and that much more scary. I kept going and with practice could overcome it but it is still very hard for me.

You shared a lot just now and that is very powerful. Sometimes we perceive people are thinking about us and judging us when really they are only thinking of themselves and their problems and fears. That doesn't make the feeling any less real.

I can guarantee you that many people in Alanon have gone through what you describe or may be right in the middle of it right now. I have heard many stories.

I am not saying you should go or not go. I would hold on to your Alanon buddy though for support even if you are not ready to go with her. Maybe one on one with a T is what you need as you have said. Maybe just read the books on your own. I found that helpful. Daily meditation books as well.

Thank you so much for your comments, you are right that just because the feelings are all in my head and are all perceived rather than directly spoken, they do not hurt any less. And perhaps I'll find self-acceptance if I keep going, and stop being so darn hard on myself.

The sad truth is I can share freely on an anonymous forum, because there is no blame and shock on our emoticon faces when I tell my story. In person, that's a tightly locked box with chains wrapped around it and a heavy padlock holding it shut. I don't like to open that box myself, let alone in front of witnesses. My T makes me open the box, pull out one stinky thing, talk about it with her, and helps me slam the lid down before the rest of the big nasty things escape. I can only handle one stinky at a time, or I feel like I will break and be bedridden again.

My plan for next week is to attend a different meeting in a different location, on Monday since Tuesday is already booked for T, with my close friend the 30+ year Al-Anon member. I will go no matter how uncomfortable I feel about it, and I will remain silent if I so desire. And I will try to remember that my secrets are not visible to anyone in the room, and stop being so darn defensive!!

Thanks again for understanding Zinco!!

Good plan. Recovery is a process not an event.

I haven't been to any aa meetings outside of the psychiatric ward and facility that I had been to several times so my experience in outside places is actually zilch 0 nada nothing, and it was recommended to me because of me ending up in the psych ward once because I blacked out drinking and was sent to the psych ward. My experience with hospital aa meetings....some people love to hear their own voices, its like music to their ears.

Went to a different meeting tonight with a much different feel. Still small and lots of individual attention and touchy-feely, but I was prepared for that so it didn't irk my nerves like last time.

And I was able to ask the group about why their motto makes me feel so ashamed. The long-timers equate it with guilt and the newer members said they felt the same way at first.

There was a lot of laughter at this group which kept it from seeming so strained. It's closer to my job and starts late enough that I don't have to take leave to attend. There's a "speaker meeting" next month at another location that I might check out, but I think this group suits me.

I'm still reading the book I got last week, and some of it still feels like BS to me, but a lot of it sounds exactly.like.me!

Thanks for letting me ramble.

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12-step programs help us grow spiritually. They allow us to see that there is a way to live peacefully within ourselves and the world around us. And most importantly, they help us learn to forgive ourselves. That's why writing inventories are an important part of the process.

One of the main side-benefits I get out of going to AA meetings is that I get to meet new people to talk to, which allows me to give up my old friendships.

That's great. I like speaker meetings. You can just sit and listen and chances are you will relate to some of it.

What motto are you talking about? I am just curious. I didn't know we had a motto other than "The courage to change" or "One day at a time". I guess those are just the names of the books. I'm confused because there are so many motto's and sayings.

This thing they say in the opening of the meeting, paraphrased "we didn't cause it, we can't control it, we can't cure it, WE ARE ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN REACTIONS."

This makes me ashamed of "taking" this sort of maltreatment for the entirety of my life, from my parents on through 3 long term relationships. It's meant to comfort people but it points out my flaws and makes me embarrassed that it took me this long to stand up against mistreatment.

I don't know if it's a motto or what, but I heard it repeated numerous times over the course of the 2 meetings I attended.

I have heard the saying lots of times but never as a motto or at the beginning of each meeting. Every meeting is different though and I have found differences in states and towns to. Like AA meetings in Michigan are different than what I am used to in CA.

I think it is really more of a goal than something you should have always lived up to or can even live up to today. Many people in Alanon cannot live up to that standard. It is the goal we strive for understanding we are not perfect and will fail at times.

Stressedmess,

That sounds more like an Ala-anon meeting that an AA meeting. I've been to lots of different AA meetings, but not Al-anon. But I have heard the didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't change it from lots of people I know in Ala-non.

Are those the meetings you're going to?

splitimage

Yes she is going to Alanon.