Antisocials, psychopaths, and therapy

I often have the same problem. When I "drop the façade," so to speak, I don't feel like anything I've said actually represents any real part of me. I wouldn't even know how to accurately describe my Self. In fact, I've hypothesised that I (and maybe most psychopaths) don't have a Self, or at least not a well-developed one. Perhaps that's why it's so easy for us to put on a façade. Perhaps we really are just mirrors that reflect the personality and mannerisms of whomever we happen to see on a daily basis.

I hate it when they do that. When they do - and most of them eventually do - I feel somewhat obligated to mind-**** them into early retirement. I think the only reason I keep going back any more is for the chance to talk about myself for an hour.

There are so many delightful people going, I think Hell's going to be quite pleasant.

I'll probably be joining you there for some tea. However, I don't think I'm a true psychopath. I have some traits but I'm more Borderline/Narcissisticish.

I hate with strong passion and love with less. I would like to learn to love stronger. But I can't trust.

Maybe I'm just plain ol' fu&ked up.

I'm jealous. I want to be antisocial too. Everyone who is antisocial has cool mood titles like:amused, devilish and Yeehaw.

boo hoo! You lose again. Jealousy is NOT a hallmark of antisocial.....a sure sign that you CARE!

...OK, I guess I'll just go back to being Borderline.

Carry on.

All in all, an interesting read! Thanks to Micheal for starting this thread, and all the participants who kept me enthralled, I just read the entire thing Great stuff!

Hahahaha, right stardusted. After the entire thread, all that has been gathered about ASPD is that we are at ANY given time either amused, devillish, or Yeehaw. Suits me just fine.

mcl6163: Jealousy COULD manifest under the right circumstances, it just usually is represented as rage rather than a self-deprecative moping. Caring isn't totally abolished in certain antisocials... It's just often limited to oneself with a disregard to others.
For example, the person in question wants a *****in' sports car & they are envious of the person with the means to obtain one. In order to even the playing field, there are a number of things they could do that branch off from the core concept: Jealousy. They could steal a car, they could destroy the car, they could steal the money to get one, or they could otherwise con their way into getting closer to their goal. Envy exists, but it's more of a motivator than a reason to stoically obsess about what person A has that I may want OR may not want them to have.
It's a roundabout way of doing things or reacting, but at least it's interesting.

Well congratulations, Trippin! Haha unfortunately there is no prize for such an achievement. :P

The only reason I goto therapy is to talk about myself and learn more about me. In one session she already narrowed me to cluster B. It is only a matter of time.

Interestingly enough, my therapist kept returning to identity formation, my seeming lack of any substantial personal identity at my age, the catalysts of identity formation, etc. He was of the opinion that personal identity is formed through trial, tribulation, and suffering. When I was asked if I'd gone through anything like that and I'd told him that while yeah, I'd been involved in stuff throughout my life that had obviously messed up the people around me, it just hadn't had the same impact on me, and that was what he latched onto. I have not experienced enough deep, genuine emotional pain, heartache, tears, or loss. I have not tested my mettle and found myself wanting, learned my limits, felt the pangs of true disappointment and failure, the highs, the lows, through richer, through poorer, etc, etc... In other words, I am emotionally destitute, and empty of anything truly meaningful. That was what I got out of it, anyway.

My question is, is that actually the root cause here? Not so much a lack of tribulations as a lack of deep emotional impact. I'm thinking there's more to it than just that. Or less, depending on how you look at it. I'm not entirely convinced that anybody has as much of an unique identity as they might like to think, lol.

Well, this first real chapter of therapy came to a pretty abrupt close a couple weeks back. I woke up from a nap to head over to meet him and saw I had a voicemail. It was from some chick claiming she needed to talk to me regarding him. When I called back she said he was dead. So she was offering all of his clients a free session to talk about it and figure out what to do next. At this session, I asked her what happened to him. She led in with the gentle touch.. "Were you aware that he had been struggling with depression for a very long time..?" "Oh, you were... not many people were aware.." "He was on Klonopin for anxiety? *scribble scribble* ... Do you happen to know if he was on anything else? I'm surprised you know this much. Did you see anything in his behavior...?" What a kick.

Anyway, she pointed me in the direction of another guy. Went to the memorial service, was pretty damn impressed with the former's mom (very intelligent, in the same field as him, smokin' for her age. Wonder why he never mentioned her? ). Ran into an old buddy who did a solo at the service, turns out he was the guy's guitar instructor since he was 12. Met with the new therapist this week, and this one's got no sense of humor.. I already know where things are headed if I go the same route as I did with the last one.

I haven't read a lot about research in personality development of late. But, if I recall correctly, most of it is inherent, as indicated by numerous twin studies. So, no, no one's really all that unique.

It's sad that he has no sense of humour. Perhaps you should teach him.

Yes, the twin studies. Studies aside, I was shooting more for some discussion of the potential environmental variables. Been into genetics for a long time now, and it can get a little monotonous sometimes.

How many years have you been screwing around with these clinical clowns? I'm already pretty burnt out with all of it. It was getting old, but I had something pretty decent going with the last guy, and he would have bent over backwards for me. I paid him in cash, stayed off the record, we met on my schedule, he'd go over when I was late, rearrange his next clients when I was really late, let it slide whenever I didn't have the right bills on me for the session, would have said whatever I needed if he thought it would help me.... Now I've spent the last month arguing with these new bureaucratic assholes, trying to pick up my damn file myself and bring it to the new kid. It seems they're not liking that at all. I don't know that I'm gonna have the time or the motivation to start another round. A challenge would help with the second, I guess. I went for the only sizeable challenge I could see when I tried being as honest as possible, and I can't see what ultimate outcome wouldn't be a bit lackluster after what's already happened. I'm sure it had nothing to do with me, but the reality remains.

new member. joined site after assessing previous relationship. diagnoses many.. 1 antisocial personality disorder. I wanted to put poem down for feedback. Feeling kinda bad about feeling more like a sociopath.... but still feeling. I wouldn't want to upset a survivor, I simply wanted to presemt poetry. Can I here or where would I? Thank You.

"When I say antisocials and psychopaths get worse with therapy, I mean they learn emotional cues and the importance of remorse. They then use that knowledge to sharpen their manipulation techniques."

That above statement is so very very true. They will emulate but they are still not feeling it. Its sweeter than sugar, then in one second they strike. Almost as if it is scripting the remorse. OH MY that is right on.

How much of this thread did you read?

I am not a professional in any field of physcology, however I have read a fair amount of books, articles and so on about it regarding physcopathy and aspd in particular and more so regarding serial killers and those who are physcopathic or have other disorders as well as being homicidal- idk I'm weird I like criminal physcology. I have read about how therapy can make physcopaths in particular worse. I have recently come into the knowledge that aspd is a separate thing- many physcopaths have aspd but most aspd people aren't physcopaths, according to info I have gathered anyway. I know there is much confusion when most average people talk about it and use all sorts of terms interchangably without researching very deeply into the subject. (I'm not even going to talk about the term sociopath, just no!) I am gathering that both would have similar outcomes with therapy since they have similar characteristsics. However the ever present "you can't cure any physcopath/aspd patient cos they are all manipulative and lie and none seek help" will just never cut it with me. This takes away any individuality from every patient with either label. And as we are all told- no 2 people are ever exactly the same. People seem to forget the rest of the indivdual and the rest of thier personality and say that the whole personality is ONLY aspd or physcopathy if u see what I'm getting at. (I don't look at a doctor and say well he's a doctor everyone of them without fail makes a butt load of money and abuses prescription drugs, no I'd see him as a person with other things about him who happens to also be a doctor.) I suspect myself to have aspd probably, however finding out if I do seems to REQUIRE deception, it seems that society is FORCING me to be deceptive to collect information to find out if I do suffer from this cos if I seriously tell anyone and seriously reveal every detail of why I suspect this then as far as I can tell I'll be labelled as a no hoper, probable killer and thrown in the 'f off basket', (I already kind of have been since they diagnosed cluster b traits, I got some lame line from my mental heath team about them 'not liking to keep people on the books too long' and now I receive no help, no meds nothing. I'm out here, a possible aspd person, definate ptsd sufferer, who has no support structure and is alone, angry, sometimes sucidal and often pissed off at soceity and family/'friends' without anyone doing anything to change me-and I'm the only person who gives a dam about that O_O) and thats just the best case scenario I think taking some of the sterotypes and stigma away regarding this particular thing- "They never want to change, they are all unredeemable" will actually do a lot to help those who may have it and do want to change (cos hey my freakin life isn't working for me at all) be able to come out and seek help and be truthful. Also on the whole truthful thing, this is something I a having trouble with as I personally dislike liars, value honour etc but I find myself trying to really look at myself and see how true to my behaviour it is and it's like trying to look through an open door to a bookshelf that someone is purposefully standing in front of to block my view. Everytime I ask myself well how honest am I? Have I lied to people to get my way? It's like there is a haze over the answer or a distracting shiny thing (some thought) will come along and lead me away from that door. Trying to know ones self in all truth and flaws is a hard thing to do. That was long winded but hey I had a lot to say and ignore any spelling mistake I sure will