[The_little_didgee]

How do I start a conversation? I have trouble making small talk with people, even ones I know very well. People have told me, I need to show more interest in them and not ask so many questions. Now, I am trying to be more aware of others and their feelings. I also make sure to avoid personal topics and let the other person talk. It is difficult, but I am trying.

I have no idea what to discuss. If it is an interest or something I can relate to, it is easier. Almost all my interests are in science. People don't seem to appreciate my need to discuss my interests from time to time. Why is it okay to talk about the news, weather or sports scores, but not exoplanets and mushrooms? I rarely ever get to talk about my interests with others.

If I like a person, I can get very talkative, sometimes too much. I am trying to find ways to stop this. When do I stop talking?

[NWgirl2013]

I'm sorry you are struggling with this. It is a contradiction for someone to say that you need to show interest in people but not ask questions!

Conversation is an art, and most people love to talk about themselves. Maybe listening to someone's talk about what they love can be turned to one of your interests by simply asking if they know anything about your interest & then sharing just a little of your vast knowledge, allowing them to ask you questions. It may not be the in-depth discussion you crave but it will be a start.
I wish you all the best....

[H3rmit]

There are numerous good books on this subject. I struggle with it myself, so I have no advice, but I do recommend trying out stuff recommended in books. As with any communication, there are cultural contexts to know/explore, as well as the listener, and there are so many possibilities there.

[lostinbooks]

This is something I struggle with too. It's so easy online, but in person and on the phone I am just clueless. I wish I had advise, but at least you know your not the only one. I also bore people with science. My husband just tells me to stop now.

[Pandoren]

I'm useless at conversations... most of mine are: "Hi" "hi" "how are you?" "Fine thanks." ... ... "ok, bye".

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Why is it okay to talk about the news, weather or sports scores, but not exoplanets and mushrooms? I rarely ever get to talk about my interests with others.

I've been following this thread because I have no idea how to start conversations but I think I can answer this part of your question. Think of two people with their interests and knowledge mapped in a Venn diagram(you know with the overlapping circles) Certain things fall into the overlap between the two circles....that's what you're allowed to talk about because both people can hold up their end of the conversation. You are allowed to throw in parts that aren't in the overlap to test the waters otherwise you'd never know what to talk about. You just don't want the conversation to be one sided, you talking and them listening.

So you've got a thing for mushrooms, mention them in a common way without their scientific name say hen of the woods or morels or something, mention that the season is coming up or that you had some to eat or something that brings it to a common level. People can talk about food pretty easily so that's a good place to start. If they show interest you might be able to go on a bit.

People always ask me about my job so I have sort of a dumbed down version I tell them, after all it took me years to understand the concepts behind what I do(I have a PhD). This is what you have to do with mushrooms or exoplanets, you have to take your knowledge and make it accessible to someone with minimal knowledge of the field by bringing it to a common level---like I said edible mushrooms are great for this because food is so hot right now. Hope this helps.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by lostinbooks

It's so easy online, but in person and on the phone I am just clueless.

It is a lot easier to communicate online, but I still tend to drag a topic out, until it tires the other person out. Sometimes, I force myself to respond, even though I don't have something meaningful to say. I assume they want a response. Knowing when to stop is difficult to determine.

Phones scare me. My family lives 1000 Km away so I have to put up with it.

Originally Posted by lostinbooks

I also bore people with science. My husband just tells me to stop now.

When I was younger, people would complain about how boring I was.

People who are direct or lead the topic are easy to converse with. Unfortunately, not everybody is like that.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

I've been following this thread because I have no idea how to start conversations but I think I can answer this part of your question. Think of two people with their interests and knowledge mapped in a Venn diagram(you know with the overlapping circles) Certain things fall into the overlap between the two circles....that's what you're allowed to talk about because both people can hold up their end of the conversation. You are allowed to throw in parts that aren't in the overlap to test the waters otherwise you'd never know what to talk about. You just don't want the conversation to be one sided, you talking and them listening.

This is a great visualization.

How do you determine what is appropriate? I can talk about anything, even taboo topics.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

So you've got a thing for mushrooms, mention them in a common way without their scientific name say hen of the woods or morels or something, mention that the season is coming up or that you had some to eat or something that brings it to a common level. People can talk about food pretty easily so that's a good place to start. If they show interest you might be able to go on a bit.

Eating them isn't what I am after. I photograph, collect and make spore prints.

I will try your suggestion. Of all the people, I have spoken with, only one asked about edibles. Most people seem to think this hobby is about finding or growing 'magic mushrooms'. Whenever, I tell people about my interest, they immediately ask about these mushrooms. I have no interest in consuming, growing and selling psilocybin mushrooms.

That is a hard one for me too. Once I say "Hi" and "How are you today?", unless they throw out something else to work with, I'm pretty much done as well. I know some people compliment on clothing or hair style. If you know a hobby they are interested in or a class they are taking, you can ask them how it's coming, but, once again, unless they throw something else out that I can work with, I don't know what else to say after they answer. I occasionally do this with my own children!

Oh...on the subject of mushrooms, morel mushrooms are really big in Idaho right now. They had a number of forest fires in the area last year and it made the soil just right from what I understand. To pick directly in the forest, you have to have a permit, but I'm assuming you can find them other places right now as well if you know where to look. I don't know thta much about mushrooms per se, but it among many other things, I wouldn't mind learning more about. My interest level is quite large most of the time.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

This is a great visualization.

How do you determine what is appropriate? I can talk about anything, even taboo topics.


Eating them isn't what I am after. I photograph, collect and make spore prints.

I will try your suggestion. Of all the people, I have spoken with, only one asked about edibles. Most people seem to think this hobby is about finding or growing 'magic mushrooms'. Whenever, I tell people about my interest, they immediately ask about these mushrooms. I have no interest in consuming, growing and selling psilocybin mushrooms.

OK so the only way to find out what they like is to talk a little bit about it and see if they get bored, usually this means that they will stop talking or ask another question to change the topic instead of asking more questions about the mushrooms or whatever you're discussing. If they are into it they will ask relevant questions or comment like so tell me more about the death cap mushroom I don't want to get one of those by mistake. Its a two way street, they should be contributing too. Once you get to know people its a lot easier than starting a conversation though.

I just suggested edibles to give you an entry point that was accessible. I think you must have some pretty wild friends if all they think of is psilocybin you might want to have a default answer for that which will lead into something you do like ie No I'm not into that but I do want to grow the rare "blank" because I've never been able to find it growing in the wild. Mix things up by talking about getting outdoors to collect them, your photography skills ie did you take a class, I know you won't be spending all your time talking about spore prints etc but if you mix in other elements you give other people a chance to talk about their interests. Photography is really common, I love taking my camera to the botanic gardens on a day with sort of a dappled sunlight so I could jump in with that if you started talking about photography but not everyone knows everything so if you started talking about f-stops I'd be all um yeah I have a point and shoot I just like taking pictures so you need to keep it light. How do you feel about cell phone cameras, do you like instagram. Once you get to know what people are interested in you can go further into depth. (Usually they will smile when they are interested but like I said if they ask relevant questions you know they are)

[Perna]

Good conversations have to built, sentence by sentence, give and take between two. One cannot start at the "end" the "good stuff" about one's own interests, one has to build a path to that place. With most people though, one has to build a path to a joint place that is not their subject or our own but a mutual one.

If there is no time to talk, you have to do the "Hi, how are you?/Bye" sort of conversations or, "What about this weather?" ones. So first you have to see who you are going to talk to and how much time you have to talk.

Talking to the grocery clerk when you are checking out is different than talking to someone in the bookstore who is looking at books in the same section you are and who looks friendly/nice and you'd like to try to talk a little about your subject with and that person is different from a classmate after class or during break who is different from a friend or relative you know pretty well.

First define the person.

The grocery clerk has limited connection with you. They are working and you are not for starters. It only takes 1-5 minutes to go through the line. So, you start with something referring to their job but not too personal. "I'm so sorry it is you in here working on this beautiful day and not me." That sympathizes with them having to work when you are not and talks about the weather (if it is raining you say something like, "I bet you don't mind being inside working on days like this!").

Some grocery clerks will just agree and not pick up the conversation. With them you know there's no where to go talking with them and so you say something lame like, "Yeah" and then stand there until they finish bagging your groceries and you're on your way. But others will add a bit of their information to your opening, "It doesn't matter, I get off in 15 minutes so have to go out in the rain anyway!" With them, you get to decide, do I continue or just say, "Oh, too bad!" and my groceries are bagged and I leave. If you have a large order, you can ask something a little more personal, since they "started" it. "Don't tell me; your car is in the last row of the parking lot and you don't have an umbrella?" The conversation isn't really going very far but you are both having fun and celebrating one's own life and the other's difficulties or rejoicing with them when they say, "No! My boyfriend is picking me up and waits for me right at the door!" You can then get even more personal and ask, "You all going somewhere to have some fun or just home where it's nice and dry?" You get to be a "voyeur" in someone else's life, get to learn a little about this other person and how they live and whether it is how you would imagine you would choose to live if you were them, etc. If they answer, "No, just going home," if there's still time, you can sneak in a bit about yourself if you want, "I'm going to a rock collecting convention and hope to pick up some Swan Peak Quartzite from Utah!" They may just look at you funny may ask you what part of Utah and tell you they have a friend who lives in Utah, or, may ask you the question you are hoping for, "What's so special about Swan Peak Quartzite?" and you are off for two sentences Or, they may just say, "That's nice." which is shorthand for, "I have no clue what you are talking about but am happy for you that you sound so excited about it." The key is looking for the "follow on" comment or question that lets you know it is your "turn" to add something. If you get a dead end comment like "that's nice" then it usually means that person is through and you might want to start on a different subject or a different person :-)

[H3rmit]

My mind is clearer today. What is the purpose of any conversation? I am 50+, so if I talk to an older person, someone my age, a young adult, teenager, or child, my talk will be different, as will my expectations of their talk. Someone my age makes assumptions that I am like them, which are usually wrong - I don't have kids or a husband older than me, or a job. I am a serious student, and I don't have typical hobbies (except gardening), interests, or history of women my age. So those different assumptions are often barriers to be worked around. Best is to talk with someone who doesn't pigeonhole me. But we still have to be aware the pigeonholes are there. Treading politely through trite topics gives opportunities to throw something else in, against a nonthreatening background - I'm thinking of casual conversations with other people in the apartment building or in public or even at school.

Discussing is more about getting to know the other person and general things in life that we all have to deal with than about the topic for its own sake. It is about establishing a friendliness and basis of trust, so later when you have a request for info or even a favour, you are not a stranger reaching out.

Even when you talk to someone who is interested in your special interest, what is the purpose of talking? You and I briefly discussed mushrooms - my general interest is edibles, and we didn't get into my more specialized interest, which would be ecological relationships with fungi, not necessarily mushrooms per se. You are interested in collecting and classifying them. Have you ever looked for a discussion group focussed on that? I bet there is more than one.

[Pandoren]

I think one of the big reasons why I'm no good at conversations is that I don't really want to talk to people... When I say "how are you?" I'm just fishing for something polite to say, I usually don't really care for the answer if they are already looking perfectly healthy. Beyond that... I don't really like trying to force being genuinely interested... I could do "you look nice today" or something dumb, but if I don't think they look particularly nice, I'm not about to say they do.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

OK so the only way to find out what they like is to talk a little bit about it and see if they get bored, usually this means that they will stop talking or ask another question to change the topic instead of asking more questions about the mushrooms or whatever you're discussing.

I never ever pay much attention to boredom cues.

Besides the difficulties interpreting nonverbal cues, this must be due to impaired theory of mind. Do people without ASD "imagine" what the other person is thinking, while they are having a conversation? I admit, I never do this.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

I think you must have some pretty wild friends if all they think of is psilocybin you might want to have a default answer for that which will lead into something you do like ie No I'm not into that but I do want to grow the rare "blank" because I've never been able to find it growing in the wild.

Most of the people who have asked about magic mushrooms were academics. It surprises me, because they all come across as very professional.

I did not know magic mushroom use was so prevalent.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Mix things up by talking about getting outdoors to collect them, your photography skills ie did you take a class, I know you won't be spending all your time talking about spore prints etc but if you mix in other elements you give other people a chance to talk about their interests. Photography is really common, I love taking my camera to the botanic gardens on a day with sort of a dappled sunlight so I could jump in with that if you started talking about photography but not everyone knows everything so if you started talking about f-stops I'd be all um yeah I have a point and shoot I just like taking pictures so you need to keep it light. How do you feel about cell phone cameras, do you like instagram. Once you get to know what people are interested in you can go further into depth. (Usually they will smile when they are interested but like I said if they ask relevant questions you know they are)

This is a good suggestion, that I will try.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

I never ever pay much attention to boredom cues.

Besides the difficulties interpreting nonverbal cues, this must be due to impaired theory of mind. Do people without ASD "imagine" what the other person is thinking, while they are having a conversation? I admit, I never do this.
.

I can't tell you what normal people think...I thinks it's just natural for them. I have psychosis which comes with its own set of problems reading people that's why I basically have all these rules in my head. I can tell when someone is bored visually but not for a couple of hours after the conversation when my brain finally processes all the small details you don't really see. My main indicator is when they stop asking questions or get up from sitting down or start putting space between us I'm usually aware that something has changed and they are just done. Anyway I definitely don't imagine what the other person is thinking I just sense the change and if they're not smiling assume its for the worse.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by H3rmit

I am a serious student, and I don't have typical hobbies (except gardening), interests, or history of women my age.

None, of my hobbies are typical, either. This is what makes it so hard to connect with people.

Originally Posted by H3rmit

Even when you talk to someone who is interested in your special interest, what is the purpose of talking?

I don't understand. Can you explain what you mean?

Originally Posted by H3rmit

You and I briefly discussed mushrooms - my general interest is edibles, and we didn't get into my more specialized interest, which would be ecological relationships with fungi, not necessarily mushrooms per se. You are interested in collecting and classifying them. Have you ever looked for a discussion group focussed on that? I bet there is more than one.

Yes, but there is no local group in my city. There is one in a nearby city, but it is in French, a language I don't speak. The closest English group is at least a four hour drive.

I am going to ask one of my biology professors if he can help me find other mycology enthusiasts.

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

I don't understand. Can you explain what you mean?
...
I am going to ask one of my biology professors if he can help me find other mycology enthusiasts.

Well, the stereotypical AS behaviour is to spit out facts rather than listen to the other person. With two people doing that, what is the point? THen again, what is the purpose of classification? Only you know what the purpose is for you, and perhaps for the other person the purpose is different. THis is part of what conversation is about - particular goals. Perhaps you have information the person wants, but there are many other possible purposes or goals.

Asking a prof sounds like a good idea. Maybe you could get involved in some research group. Sure, it might be volunteering, but if it's fun then it's fun!

[manwithnofriends]

I never make small talk. Waste of time. So what if I don't have friends, I simply do not care. If I have to spend the rest of my life talking only to my mother or therapists and employers etc., so be it. I only start a conversation if it's a question that I really need to know the answer to. Not something like "nice weather?" cause it's so blatantly obvious!

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Most of the people who have asked about magic mushrooms were academics. It surprises me, because they all come across as very professional.

I did not know magic mushroom use was so prevalent.

So, did they say they have looked for or use or want to use magic mushrooms, or did you assume that? Maybe they asked because you are young or they were trying to gauge your reaction by throwing in a somewhat controversial topic.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by manwithnofriends

I only start a conversation if it's a question that I really need to know the answer to. Not something like "nice weather?" cause it's so blatantly obvious!

I don't approach people, unless I need to ask them something. Small talk isn't something I do. It feels awkward. Talking about the weather or something similar is filler to me. I'd rather talk about something more meaningful.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by H3rmit

So, did they say they have looked for or use or want to use magic mushrooms, or did you assume that? Maybe they asked because you are young or they were trying to gauge your reaction by throwing in a somewhat controversial topic.

Earlier this week, I was talking with a man, I know, quite well. A second man entered into the conversation. The first man made a comment about the second one growing mushrooms, when he was a student. I assumed he grew edible mushrooms, so I asked him what kind. The first man answered for the second, "magic mushrooms".

He was trying to be funny. I did not get it.

The first man knows, I am 35, and that I don't use drugs.

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Earlier this week, I was talking with a man, I know, quite well. A second man entered into the conversation. The first man made a comment about the second one growing mushrooms, when he was a student. I assumed he grew edible mushrooms, so I asked him what kind. The first man answered for the second, "magic mushrooms".

He was trying to be funny. I did not get it.

The first man knows, I am 35, and that I don't use drugs.

Using something shocking or absurd is a typical thing in humour. That is why it is a joke. It was definitely not about you. However, using "magic mushrooms" to someone who actually likes fungi is lame. You didn't get it was funny, but you also didn't realize it was typical lame humour. That's okay. Eventually you learn these stupid categories. In your case, maybe the guy really did grow magic mushrooms (but more likely something for research, no?), and even so the idea of "magic mushrooms" is funny to people - especially when they mention it to someone serious and possibly square-looking, such as me or maybe you.

One time I was in a writing class, and a girl wrote something I thought was utterly hilarious. A "space opera" - I thought it was a parody. No, she was serious, and it was just awful. I was laughing my head off until I saw her angry face and everyone else's serious face. This is why "getting the joke" can be dangerous, too. For people like me, so many things people do are unthinkable or ridiculous, but people are serious about them.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by H3rmit

Using something shocking or absurd is a typical thing in humour. That is why it is a joke. It was definitely not about you. However, using "magic mushrooms" to someone who actually likes fungi is lame. You didn't get it was funny, but you also didn't realize it was typical lame humour. That's okay. Eventually you learn these stupid categories. In your case, maybe the guy really did grow magic mushrooms (but more likely something for research, no?), and even so the idea of "magic mushrooms" is funny to people - especially when they mention it to someone serious and possibly square-looking, such as me or maybe you.

Sometimes, it is difficult to determine what is a joke or not.

It takes a lot to make me laugh.

Originally Posted by H3rmit

One time I was in a writing class, and a girl wrote something I thought was utterly hilarious. A "space opera" - I thought it was a parody. No, she was serious, and it was just awful. I was laughing my head off until I saw her angry face and everyone else's serious face. This is why "getting the joke" can be dangerous, too. For people like me, so many things people do are unthinkable or ridiculous, but people are serious about them.

Space opera? In my mind, I see an opera singer floating in space. I admit, I don't get it. Illustrative language is very confusing, especially if I have never heard it before. So what is a space opera?

I laugh at things no one else finds funny. It makes people wonder about me and my mental health.

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

So what is a space opera?

I laugh at things no one else finds funny. It makes people wonder about me and my mental health.

Apparently it's a version of star trek as if it were a serious drama - and looks idiotic to me. I don't really know either. But that's what she said.

So, about starting conversations, the obvious thing is to get used to smalltalk. Keep doing it; no one will think it's weird. It's space filler so they can make eye contact and interact to make sure you aren't a scary person. Ritualized interaction. If you have ever been in a country with a lot of scary armed guards, military police and random criminals, you might appreciate the value of safe and neutral interaction. Or, if you had someone who refuses to acknowledge you and say hi pleasantly in the morning, who takes their bad mood out on you, you might also appreciate it. So, these are some examples of how smalltalk is nicer than alternatives that can crop up in the broader social context.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by H3rmit

Apparently it's a version of star trek as if it were a serious drama - and looks idiotic to me. I don't really know either. But that's what she said.

It could mean so many different things, such as drug use. Too much magic mushrooms, perhaps!

I just found out, it is a subgenre of science fiction.

Originally Posted by H3rmit

So, about starting conversations, the obvious thing is to get used to smalltalk. Keep doing it; no one will think it's weird. It's space filler so they can make eye contact and interact to make sure you aren't a scary person. Ritualized interaction. If you have ever been in a country with a lot of scary armed guards, military police and random criminals, you might appreciate the value of safe and neutral interaction. Or, if you had someone who refuses to acknowledge you and say hi pleasantly in the morning, who takes their bad mood out on you, you might also appreciate it. So, these are some examples of how smalltalk is nicer than alternatives that can crop up in the broader social context.

I will try more small talk.

My eye contact is poor. I try, but it is distracting. For some reason, I cannot look at someone and concentrate on the conversation at the same time.