Normal people don’t care

Thanks for posting! That's it exactly, if I knew how to act differently, I would have did it a long time ago for sure. The problem is, I am just being me.

I know my parents wont even accept that i do indeed have autism. (not like its any different than when i was growing up. every time the school district came to the explaination that i was autistic, up again i would be moved. they would rather accept much worse things than to accept that i have autism. ... i dont feel accepted by them... even if its just them not accepting the diagnosis, that diagnoses IS ME, so theres why i feel like im not accept ..
they evade the topic or anything about it, and if i pursue trying to explain anything about me, they get hostile.. it just plan sucks how "normal" people treat and expect certain things from us, but at the same time they just expect us to already know it, because THEY know it. somehow they cant mind read, but those "normal" people who treat us like that, somehow they think we have that gift, they expect too much, and give little to nothing(advice) in return to help. :/

I have old fashioned parents who are just like this. My Dad will admit that my mother was bipolar, but try to tell him I'm an aspie an he just rolls his eyes and changes the subject. I am sick to death of people telling us all of this is an excuse too.

That's so very true. It reminds me of what someone said about the law once. The law can tell you/show you that you did something wrong, but it cannot help you to improve so that you don't break the law again. By law I mean like the ten commandments in the Bible. It can accuse very well, but it can't help you become better, you need someone (i.e. Jesus) to help you out.

I know maybe not everyone sees it from that viewpoint, but it just struck me how analogous it was, when you posted that.

I've been grappling with the thought of telling my parents since last year already when I found out. I just can't see them believing it or accepting it.

I have hardly any money left mate, and I have court on Thursday.

Ah, I'm sorry mate. I hope things go well on Thursday.

Laws were NOT designed to teach. Laws are put in place to be the boundaries/defined limitations/guidelines of acceptable behavior that makes society on a whole run smoother & show respect for others.

Like when you are given a book when you learn to drive....it has all the laws & regulations that apply to driving a car. Learning those rules & regulations doesn't teach you to drive the car....you need an instructor to do that. Parents are supposed to be the instructors that teach a child to live a responsible life & if the 10 commandments are what they use as the rules/laws/guidelines, then they teach their child behavior that is acceptable & within those boundaries & when the child messes up on something, the parents responsibility is to correct the child & teach them the behavior that IS acceptable so that they LEARN......it's about learning & communicating the information that is needed to live within the laws that the family has based acceptable behavior on.

As one grows older one learns by observation....but at times I think that Asperger's makes that more difficult. I learned many things in life by looking & trying what other people would be doing...my ex H (who I"m sure has Asperger's) had to be taught everything except for the things that came easy to his IQ brain which sadly wasn't anything that was practically useable in life. We were taking this interior design course together at a junior college. The assignment was to paint a color wheel out of the primary colors inserting the shades between the primary colors. I struggled getting the right shades. He quit the class because he claimed he couldn't do the project because no one ever taught him how to paint with a paint brush . Not knowing anything about Asperger's or even guessing that there was anything really wrong with him, his behavior was just totally foreign to me thinking he was just being a very difficult NORMAL person whose behavior made no sense.

I have been thinking about your statement that normal people don't care......I think what happens is that if you don't know that the person has Asperger's, a normal person expects behavior of a normal person out of them & when the behavior differs & they think the person is normal (or they are in denial that the person has Asperger's) they see the person as a normal person who is just being a very difficult person & doesn't have to act like that.....they should have either learned better earlier in life or they need to learn better now. I have found that once I have done research on the Asperger's & how it can show up in behavior.....I finally got those AH Ha moments of WHY the behavior was what it was. In reading through the book, I would look back at things that happened in my marriage & go....yes, that explains that....& that explains this. It was the first research I did that actually explained all the things that I struggles with in my marriage because I thought I was just dealing with a normal person who was being very difficult, rude, & insensitive & thought it shouldn't be like that. It's not that normal people don't care, they don't understand & when they take the time to learn, it helps in the understanding that no, this is NOT a NORMAL person who can & should behave differently, this is someone who does have Asperger's & this is WHY the reactions, responses, & behavior is what it is & accept with understanding rather than with the thinking that they are being a difficult normal person who's behavior should NOT be tolerated but changed.

It's a fine line that is drawn there because the same behavior in a normal person is unacceptable where in a person with Asperger's, it's something that is normal for them......so understanding is so very important to be able to know & understand that line between the 2.

I think it's even more difficult for those of us in the older generation who have those we are dealing with who have undiagnosed Asperger's because it wasn't even known about when we were growing up & not even diagnosed until we were well into our 40's + so no one even bothered, they just look at the person as having a personality quirk that is difficult to deal with. We have a pastor's wife who I'm wondering if she might now have Asperger's because of the awkward way she has if interfacing with people & the communication many times ends up with something difficult happening & I ended up in the middle of a blow up one time....but it made me stop & think when I was trying to smooth things out & make each take responsibility for what happened......the pastor's wife just couldn't grasp what it was that she did that caused the blow up in the first place....it was obvious to us....but the blow up reaction wasn't an appropriate response either.....but it brought up other things that have been happening that caused the person to finally blow up....as it wasn't the first issue that had happened I came to find out & because the way that the pastor's wife came across to this person just wasn't an acceptable thing for a NORMAL person to do....but when we stopped & put it into the perspective that it might be because of Asperger's.....it took on a whole different understanding.

It's not so much that we don't care or don't accept the behavior of an Asperger's person it that we don't accept that behavior in a normal person & it's not that easy to distinguish who is normal & who has Asperger's especially if you are just out in society interfacing at an acquaintance level. It can look like the other person doesn't care or like the pastor's wife commented...."I have never been spoken to like that before"....well, when some NORMAL person treats the person who blew up in the ways that she had been treated by the pastors wife, a blow up or at least a confrontation of some sort is bound to happen. We don't know that the pastor's wife has Asperger's.....but the signs are there that make it look that way.

That's why having a Dx, & having those around you have a good understanding of how a person with Asperger's responds to things is so very important because it's not about caring, it's about understanding because then it's easier to say.....I understand that I can't put the same expectations on this person as I would on a NORMAL person & totally KNOW with understanding that it isn't JUST an excuse for the behavior.

Most NORMAL people don't even know what is normal for a person with Asperger's....many people haven't even heard about it so it's not that they don't care but if they don't even know the person has Asperger's then their expectations of the person are going to be the expectations they would have for a normal person, not a person with Asperger's & that's why it looks like they don't care.....& yes, there are some who refuse to understand Asperger's & refuse to accept that it isn't JUSt an excuse.....but those NORMAL people are JUST JERKS anyway & wasting one's time with them, probably isn't a good idea in the first place.

Life isn't black & white & nothing is easy even between NORMAL people....but there are those out there who do care & want to understand so they don't end up judging an Aspie behavior by a NORMAL person's standards.....but it takes educating the public & sometimes the person who has Asperger's & understands it better than anyone else needs to be their best advocate & teacher of those around them....not easy when there is a communication issue that comes with Asperger's in the first place....but like for me.....the book "The Complete Guide to Asperger's" by Tony Attwood has been an invaluable source of information & growth in my knowledge & understanding. It won't fix my marriage....there were too many things wrong with it for way too long & some of the things might also be that he is just a JERK in some areas that has nothing to do with Asperger's....but there are things that I realize aren't ok for me to be around & I had to set my boundaries & my limits.....& there will be times when that happens....it happens between too normal people so why wouldn't it happen between a normal person & one with Asperger's?....sometimes life just happens & we have to make the best of it no matter what no matter what we are. & it doesn't mean that we don't care....it's just the direction life goes.

Hope some of this makes some level of sense in terms of the subject of your thread here.

Thank you Eskie, I really appreciate what you have said here.

If it means anything, to me, you are not like the normal people I know, because you have gone one step further on your own and said that you want to know, which is not something I can say for almost all the rest.

At least you still do care. It might just be my opinion, but if I were you I would avoid including myself together with the vast uniform ocean of "normals". You clearly show more compassion, understanding, and an eagerness for truth than many "normal" people I know.

I must admit, I have been thinking about who exactly it is I see in my mind's eye when I think of someone "normal". Sadly, the first group of people that come to mind are the people my age and younger. They just don't seem to care about anything other than partying, looks, drugs and money. As a young person today, you are solely judged on your ability to socialize and look good in front of other people. They mistake cockiness/arrogance for self-confidence and any deviation from the norm as a flaw. I feel like a stranger in my own age group. I am totally out of touch with any of this stuff because to me it all seems like rubbish.

It is not necessarily me that sees my condition as a flaw, but they do, and they force me to live their perception. It's easy when you don't need anyone, but you can't be completely independent in everything. It is when you begin to be deprived of day-to-day things that everyone needs (even me, I'm not a machine, I also need certain things) that the perceived problem manifests as a real problem that I suddenly now have to deal with. Social interaction is one of those needs, no person can be alone 24 h a day without suffering some serious emotional damage in the process. Surely, just because I don't understand social understanding, doesn't mean I deserve to be deprived of it. But, that is the end result, whether it's the right thing or not. That's something I've observed lately, it no longer matters whether something is right or not, if it's the norm, it sticks.

I honestly think that the values of society have degraded to entirely people who don't hold onto those values will be outcast whether they have Asperger's or not.

You were talking about the 10 commandments so I am assuming that you are coming from the belief around that & in reading about how people will become over time.....what you write here is exactly as it's described in the Bible........I'm thinking that the problems that you are encountering isn't JUSt because of Asperger's but because of a differing set of values that those of us who follow the beliefs surrounding the 10 commandments are ALL ENCOUNTERING.....having Asperger's just adds another set of difficulties to that already difficult situation.

It's sad to say that the norm has evolved to this through the years & sadly with that comes the lack of caring or desire to understand....sadly I have seen that evolution in my life time. For me, it's important to understand, especially things that have touched my own life but in doing that, when I see something similar around me, I feel it's important to share that knowledge & understanding with others......while it's always a difficult thing because one doesn't want to place labels on people who don't have them, especially people my age who didn't even have the possibility of knowing what it was that was causing them difficulties throughout their life.

I have seen how understanding what even might be the cause can really help in the interaction between people.

I know that socialization is very important to our well being......I know that it's just as difficult socializing with people who hold the same values, but that might be one less stress added to the mix & maybe even a smaller group to help them understand what Asperger's is all about. It's so important to share with others & educate them because there are more & more people dealing with Asperger's.....just in our little church of 20+ Asperger's has touched many of the families there so I know just how important it is to have understanding.....I also know just how difficult it is to understand because it manifests itself in each person in a slightly different way.

There are a lot of insensitive people from my past too that I have contacted and been universally blanked by, and it seems cold. NT people can be full of themselves and never look at how someone with a mental health issue sees such situations. They ignore me for no reason on Facebook. Sometimes, I am crying for help so I'll message them, telling them of my awful life. Almost always, they read my messages but choose never to reply. It lets you know what time they seen your message but they just ignore me. Maybe they are not allowed to respond as they could be a professional worker, but sometimes, I think they just don't care. Period.

They might not know how to respond. I've also begun to realize no one is normal. If they are focused on shallow things, maybe that's their coping mechanism: That's their sickness. Maybe they are unable to deal with real problems.

If they don't know you have Asperger's they treat you according to the way they would expect a normal person to act. A lot of times the behaviors with Asperger's isn't something that is acceptable for a normal person but the person with Asperger's it's just the way their mind works......so if the normal person doesn't know anything about Asperger's they are going to treat & expect normal behavior.....that's why it's important to advocate & get the normal people to understand the behavior that is tied with the way the mind works when it's dealing with Asperger's. You can't expect a normal person to accept your behavior as normal when it isn't normal for a normal person & they don't know that it is normal behavior for someone with Asperger's. you let alone know how to respond. There were many times that I had no idea what my H was talking about any more than he knew what I was talking about. Also looking back it's difficult to tell what behavior was part of the Asperger's or what was him just being a jerk.....where does a normal person draw the line????....Asperger's wasn't known in our day & thus he was expected to have normal people's behaviors because that behavior was expected out of EVERYONE & if one doesn't know anything about something & it doesn't even exist as a Dx in our day.....how would you know that the person wasn't just a normal person acting out?

They know. But they don't care.

Many know but they don't know the details & all the implications of it & the effects that it truly has.

I know that I have struggled in reading the book about Asperger's & determining just how it manifested itself in my H. Sometimes it's not easy even trying to understand how it works & determining whether it's Asperger's or just him being a jerk.

I left 7 years ago so I don't live continually with him any longer but I needed to know what caused the marriage to be the way it was. I just started reading about it the end of last year. My understanding might have changed some of how bad the marriage went.....but honestly it's not that they don't care, most of the time it's that they truly don't understand the real effects of it on the person & distinguishing what is Asperger's & what are the parts that are choice & can be changed....it's NOT as black & white as everyone wishes it were.

The division really only comes when certain normal people then (such as yourself) actually wish to understand and those that continue to just really not give a damn, and won't even bother to try and understand. I think it is the latter group that Peter and I both seem to struggle with.

I've a question. How the effing hell am I going to get back to my flat? The court case keeps getting deferred due to some "community payback order" or some crap, and I have to see this fat social worker soon again for another 'court report' so they can decide how to sentence me. I've seen him twice before. What flipping good does it do talking to this guy, who once said I am 'not a victim'? Jesus.

On top of that, I was duped into signing away my tenancy a few weeks ago when I went to see somebody called Cathy. This Cathy who is the director (well, assistant director) of the company no doubt just wanted me gone from that accommodation. I've not been able to access the flat for ages anyway. I've not been there since July. All my things are still there and already my mother is looking at other lets advertised online, as it looks as if I won't get back there at all. I've not got the keys to get in. The police took those last September.

Cathy made the rent arrears the issue for giving up my lease, but we could have attempted to sort that out somehow. I did contact a welfare rights person who says he requires a summary figure to know how to go about working out this issue with the rent.

Really, a good excuse is a good excuse well played upon if you are someone like her. And I'm that hurt by all of this, I don't think I'll ever regain my confidence, to make friends with anyone bat crap crazy, neurotypical, autistic, whatever you are. I've lost interest in a lot of the things I used to enjoy.

Damn brother, I feel sorry for you man. It sounds like you got shafted again, this time by the manipulations of this "Cathy" individual.

I can understand the lack of interest, same thing happened with me. I've also really lost a lot of interest in bothering with other people all together to be honest.

One thing I've really noticed is the seeming ease with which normal people can lie to and manipulate other people, especially those who they feel are "one step behind them" in some way or another (that would be the autists in their eyes). They try it with me too, but I play my own game, you see, they think they get one over on me, only to discover that I figured them out long before they even played their little game, and then "boom!" I drop a bombshell they weren't expecting, and their little plans go awry. To them it seems like I'm one step behind them, but I change the direction of the situation, so that I end up one step ahead again.

It reminds me of a really cool thing I heard someone say once: "Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions!"

Many hugs brother

I do not see how they can hold me accountable regarding the rent, since I had the rent covered by the council and it was the "seniors" that were supposed to notify whoever needed to be told about my annoying circumstances. With my bail conditions and with me being forced to stay elsewhere all these months, it was not my fault concerning the rent. Something tells me they are just using that as one big convenient excuse to get me out the door even quicker. Would I be truly happy if I was living there again anyway? After they screwed me over and ruined my life, I would never think of them in the same way I did before and I know I cannot trust them. Sara and Joanna will never be my support workers again.

The rent there was over £700 a month. That may sound expensive to you, but it is supported accommodation, after all. That flat is so cold in the winter. But other than that, I was happy there. Then they messed up my life by taken away those two women and I saw through the lying, even if I had no evidence. Actually, it happened before with another woman years ago, where they stopped giving me shifts with her. They just gave me one final shift with her before she left, but I only I found out about their reasons for us not working together for ages after she left. They do not want a service user to get attached to any worker, especially one of the opposite sex, which is what I did over and over again, due to feeling lonely and socially inept. Sara ad Joanna will never talk to me ever again by their own choice and as much as I want to get their thoughts, nobody is allowed to ask them.

Getting an advocate is an issue, because as long as the court stuff is still happening, the advocacy rights people would choose not to be involved. Perhaps legally, they cannot. So that means that I can be taken advantage of and my lawyer is good, but he is not that good. He could say more in court. When I try to speak up and raise an issue, I get told to remember my place, pretty much. It is so annoying not being able to speed this up.

The crap over Laura I went through a few years ago has really damaged my self-esteem as well. She was never a true girlfriend; I would rather have a real girlfriend that treats me right and not have to use sex workers, which is not a sinful practice to me, but there are risks associated with using sex workers for obvious reasons. However, if you think of all the above incidents, you know I am not likely to pull a woman due to a lack of a social life. To be honest, I am just not confident any longer and I would not say I am attractive in real life. People always point out how skinny I am and talk nonsense about me having a high metabolism because I cannot put on any weight. It gets to be annoying because others notice it as well and I think that contributes to women ignoring me. Plus, I wear glasses and that is not always considered cool. Since I cannot use contact lenses, I feel like a nerd. Before, I never used to care about how I looked, now I do. It is the comments of others that has had a negative impact on how I feel.

Oh man, I feel you on this one. I experience the same thing with people with regards to my social ability. I never knew I had autism and all these things until I "learnt" it from other people's interactions with me and their rejection of me. It was after being constantly just not being allowed "in" to certain things like everyone else gets that I realized I must be different. Then being rejected subtly by girls was another one for me. It is through all that I learned there must be something amiss, and that's what drove me to investigate. Upon investigation, as you would expect, I found out stuff about me.

Now, I can honestly say I am not ashamed of being who I am. I still struggle with playing the game by their rules, but I figured, hey, why not make my own game in life? I don't have all the answers I seek yet, but I'm making breakthroughs. But, as you would expect, they become farther apart with time.

I can also relate to what you say about relationships not being the same anymore with certain people. I am coming into the same situations in my life I think. I have had discussions with people about this already, about how to accept people back who maybe deserted you in your time of need, and how the relationship can ever be the same again. I must admit truly, I don't know that one yet, I wouldn't know what on earth to do if I were in that situation one day. Maybe it never happens, I don't know.

It looks like I have lost my flat, either way. The court keep deferring the case because I keep breaching my bail terms, but I cannot help it. This is not right. This should not be happening to me. Perhaps I did upset those women in a major way, but then they upset me in the first place by wanting me out of their lives. Do they not think they meant something to me? But to them, there is nothing wrong with their bosses telling me lies once their asses are no longer "supporting" me because they feel "uncomfortable" once they find out the facts from other people that grass on me (I admitted to other workers that I had a crush on them). Life goes on for these pathetic traitors, but best of luck to me when it comes to living with all the misery that will remain for the rest of my existence.

I know Cathy is just using the rent problem as an excuse. Even if I was back in that flat, it would not feel like a home any more because of what happened. Those women will never have anything more to do with me ever again and I can chase my tail all I want, but I will not catch it. If I contact them again, I was told by a social worker that I will go to jail.

This is so hurtful. All I wanted was my care people back. You never really know what you have lost until it is gone. Sure, I did say disgusting things to them. It upset them. Fine. But the company hurt me first and I was so saddened by their loss, that the sadness turned to frustration because nobody would give me an opportunity to make amends. How many times did I beg to have them back on my support team? That is not including all the days in jail and all the charges.

It is not right. All they had to do way back when this first started was caution me if it really bothered Sara and Joanna that much that they knew I had feelings for them. Now when I call the office about anything, they try to change the subject or say they will cut me off if I talk about, say Sara again. Or if it is something they have heard before, they just do not want to go over old ground. Nobody cares.

Even if I had an advocate, what would I do? Sure, I know they lied and I am sure you guys believe me when I say they lied as well. They admitted the situation was not handled well. But since it was just a verbal thing and not noted down anywhere, it means there is no evidence that can be used against them. Yes, they have their asses well covered. Yet they have tons of evidence against me because Facebook logs what you send to other users, and then I will just get arrested by the pigs again if I send them messages.

Now they are supposed to be putting a tag on me to monitor me. In the UK, they usually do that to sex offenders, or what we call a "beast", but that is not who I am. It is like being on curfew. You are restricted to where you can go during certain hours, or maybe all hours. Who knows? But I am just sick of this crap now. It is so bad how I cannot even get access to my own flat and the last time I was in it was in July.

I'm sorry, I don't have the words right now. But I've read through most of the thread and although I wouldn't call myself "normal", albeit "high functioning", I care, deeply.

Since I cannot prove s*** against them, they'll get off scot-free as I feared. But oh well.

Sad thing is my H perfected the lie to manipulate others even though he said it wasn't what he was doing but in reality....he was covering up his inability to understand what he was told or asked to do. Not knowing that he had a communication problem....his behavior came across as passive aggressive...he would say he understood & would do what he was asked but would never do what he was asked or follow through on information he was told (in reality, he didn't understand what he was told & wanted to cover up his inability).

His other favorite lie was to just not say anything....he believed if he didn't say anything then he wasn't lying....but in reality he was. Guessing that he would have no idea on how to handle some information that he received (like from the IRS) so he went into shut down mode & didn't say anything....not to me & not even to the IRS. Ignored it like it was going to go away....until I ended up getting the 2nd letter 10 months later threatening to take over the bank account. I hadn't officially left him at the time he got the first letter but I was in the process of arranging to look for my farm after my mother died.....so he had a change of a 33 year routine of having me around even though it wasn't a formal leaving him at the time.....but after the IRS situation.....I had it even if he had a problem that was causing his behavior.....Asperger's made perfect sense of what happened....but there was no way I could continue to live the rest of my life with someone who would lie to me like that....it wasn't the first time & it wasn't the last either. He fear of looking & being unable to communicate or comprehend information critical for functioning even though he had a very high IQ that he forever bragged about when I first met him....it was obvious that there was something causing a serious problem for him & sadly, his inability to communicate & to understand what was communicated to him came across as lies to cover up his inability.

That's why it's so important whether one has Asperger's or not to be open & honest with those people around you & to communicate the things that are happening. A normal person can handle communication....we can't handle lies to cover up inabilities......

Sadly either side can end up perfecting the lie in order to manipulate others.....it's more if the person has learned that as a way of dealing with things rather than it being a trait of one of the other. I have always my whole life learned that to be honest was the only way to deal with the things in my life.....I didn't need to put on any fronts to make people see things in ways that they weren't.

His other favorite white lie was to give excuses for why things were the way they were & they were excuses, not reasons (there is a huge difference). He was always finding excuses for his inabilities & if it wasn't something to lay the blame on it was someone rather than taking responsibility for his behavior.....again that's a learned way of handling difficult situations in one's life, situations that don't always make one look good so instead of taking the responsibility, it's easier to pass the blame onto someone else. The thing is that these behaviors are found in both normal & people with Asperger's....just for different but similar reasons when it comes right down to it. Throw inability to communicate in the mix & it's no wonder why it's so difficult to interface with each other.

If we could all just be open & honest with each other whether normal or with asperger's/autism life would be a lot better for ALL.

Hi Eskie, yeah sometimes these things do happen. It depends on how highly functioning the person is.

At the end of the day, it is a double-edged sword. You have to be so careful as to whom you divulge the fact you have ASD. You get people that use it as ammunition against you to win an argument. I think you ex-H has had that happen to him as a young man somewhere. I know you said he wasn't diagnosed yet, but even so, normal people can pick up something is amiss with you and use whatever it is against you, they don't need it's name to do so. It's like you don't need to know the name of a car to drive it.

When autistic people lie, most of the time they are trying to protect themselves and people they love from something, even if that something is within their own being. I have tried in the past to protect people I care about from certain aspects of me. They think I'm being silly and pushing them away, but that's not the case. We rarely mean harm when we do hide things or lie.

But, again, one has to be so careful. I have had people in the last year (since I was diagnosed) tell me things like I'm not seeing things their way because I am mentally unwell, and that if I went on medication my mind would be clear to see things their way. They say the depression is clouding my judgement and when I tell them I'm not depressed anymore, they say I am in denial.

This last paragraph kind of links to what I was saying in this thread basically. Many normal people just relegate us to being "the village idiot" of the "local loony" and nothing we say or do is worth taking note of. They are right and we are wrong, always. If we have a difference of opinion (which we do), then there is something wrong with us that needs fixing.

This is why autistic people hide the fact that they are autistic, and lie about stuff. It is so that we can get a fair evaluation of what we say and do, just like a normal person would, instead of a subjective judgement of something the "madman" or the "monster" has "uttered once again".