[Zen888]

It seems to me that ever since I have been branded with the dx of bipolar 1 disorder that I am not allowed to have "natural emotions" that aren't attributed to my illness.

I barely have a relationship with my only immediate family member who is my brother.

When I am happy and excited (laughing) because something good happened...etc I am accused of "going manic" or having a "manic episode" by my brother.

When I am sad about something that is upseting to me or whatever the situation may be, I am questioned about whether or not I am "depressed" or in a state of "depression". Or it is attributed to a mood swing.

When I am angry or frustrated because something has upet me it is attributed to a mood swing. Or that I am being confrontational.

My brother seems pleased with my behavior and/or emotions when I leave any and all emotions at the door. I must be quiet, reserved, polite, unemotional, and submissive towards him.

Recently, I sent a short and to the point e-mail to my brother because these are the types of e-mails he sends me. Maybe 2 sentences if I am lucky. I told him that I wanted his things removed from my basement and that he had till next spring/summer to do so. I did say hello and take care in the e-mail. He replied by saying that I was being confrontational. I replied by saying he misinterpreted what I said and said that I was in a hurry and just sent a quick e-mail to him...etc. Haven't heard from him since then.

Are people with Bipolar Disorder allowed to feel natural emotions like anger? happiness? sadness? without them being attributed to a "mood swing" or due to their illness?

Zen888!!! The answer to this is a resounding YES!!! (And I'm sure you already know it though. Still, let's say it again. YES!!!)

Unfortunately, your experience can be pretty common, wherein people start to attribute everything to the disorder and/or define the person by the disorder. We're still regular people (imagine that! ), we just have a lot more and more intense rough patches where things can get out of hand for us. But it's not usually a constant state of affairs (though it can certainly seem that way sometimes!) And even *if* we're in a mood state, doesn't mean that _every_ comment, reaction etc is caused by it. We are allowed to be angry if someone causes us justifiable anger. When something sad happens, we can be sad. Doesn't mean we're depressed (and as we all know, they're very different anyway, though someone who's not been seriously depressed will not be likely to really understand this.) We can laugh a lot at a funny movie -- doesn't make us hypo/manic!
Even with the lack of insight factor, if we are paying attention, we can often pick up on warning signs... patterns or behaviors that when they escalate have gotten us into trouble before. And when that happens, you could inform him to keep an eye out if you feel he could be geniunely helpful in such a circumstance.

Have you had the dx for long? Do you think that he could learn more and come to understand that he is overreacting? Sometimes it could be a matter of adjustment and learning, but if this has been going on a long time and/or he's not willing to change it, well that's not very helpful or supportive for you. Most books I've seen warn against this very thing for those wanting to be helpful. Has he read any? Would he be willing to? I just wonder if he would "get it" better if it's coming from a book or doc or whatever --something outside?

Wishing you good luck with this and keep us posted!

[ilazria]

Sounds similar to an event I had with my mother a couple of years ago. I was rather hypomanic, maybe fully manic, but that's beside the point. After the breaking point, I tried talking to my mom about what had been happening, and to try to get her to understand that, no, I was not happy with how things went, but that by the time I had reached the point I did, I was far too gone. I tried asking for their understanding, and for help in recognizing when I'm going manic or depressed, because I can't always tell on my own. A few minutes later, when the tension had died down and I was trying to lighten the mood by joking, they both pounce on me saying "now that's manic." WTF? I laughed. Aren't I allowed to laugh? Sure, maybe there was a little more energy behind it, but heck, I was still a little flooded with nervous adrenaline. I may be bipolar, but I'm also human. I don't need someone sitting on me, jumping on every mood that stays from "zen." I just wanted a support system that included more that my husband.

Yes, you are allowed to have normal human emotions. I guess it comes back to my emotional diabetes POV on being bipolar. Yeah, you can be happy or sad. It's when you have too much happy or sad that you need to check your emotional "sugar" and take corrective steps if needed. We don't need someone running up and pricking our finger every hour, but if we're showing signs of approaching serious ups or downs, and we've crossed the line of being able to do something about it ourselves, THEN we need help.

[Zen888]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Zen888!!! The answer to this is a resounding YES!!! (And I'm sure you already know it though. Still, let's say it again. YES!!!)

Unfortunately, your experience can be pretty common, wherein people start to attribute everything to the disorder and/or define the person by the disorder. We're still regular people (imagine that! ), we just have a lot more and more intense rough patches where things can get out of hand for us. But it's not usually a constant state of affairs (though it can certainly seem that way sometimes!) And even *if* we're in a mood state, doesn't mean that _every_ comment, reaction etc is caused by it. We are allowed to be angry if someone causes us justifiable anger. When something sad happens, we can be sad. Doesn't mean we're depressed (and as we all know, they're very different anyway, though someone who's not been seriously depressed will not be likely to really understand this.) We can laugh a lot at a funny movie -- doesn't make us hypo/manic!
Even with the lack of insight factor, if we are paying attention, we can often pick up on warning signs... patterns or behaviors that when they escalate have gotten us into trouble before. And when that happens, you could inform him to keep an eye out if you feel he could be geniunely helpful in such a circumstance.

Have you had the dx for long? Do you think that he could learn more and come to understand that he is overreacting? Sometimes it could be a matter of adjustment and learning, but if this has been going on a long time and/or he's not willing to change it, well that's not very helpful or supportive for you. Most books I've seen warn against this very thing for those wanting to be helpful. Has he read any? Would he be willing to? I just wonder if he would "get it" better if it's coming from a book or doc or whatever --something outside?

Wishing you good luck with this and keep us posted!

My brother is an addictions therapist and acts like he knows everything about psychology and psychiatry. So it is a "battle" that I cannot win. We don't live together and rarely see each other.

[Zen888]

Originally Posted by ilazria

Sounds similar to an event I had with my mother a couple of years ago. I was rather hypomanic, maybe fully manic, but that's beside the point. After the breaking point, I tried talking to my mom about what had been happening, and to try to get her to understand that, no, I was not happy with how things went, but that by the time I had reached the point I did, I was far too gone. I tried asking for their understanding, and for help in recognizing when I'm going manic or depressed, because I can't always tell on my own. A few minutes later, when the tension had died down and I was trying to lighten the mood by joking, they both pounce on me saying "now that's manic." WTF? I laughed. Aren't I allowed to laugh? Sure, maybe there was a little more energy behind it, but heck, I was still a little flooded with nervous adrenaline. I may be bipolar, but I'm also human. I don't need someone sitting on me, jumping on every mood that stays from "zen." I just wanted a support system that included more that my husband.

Yes, you are allowed to have normal human emotions. I guess it comes back to my emotional diabetes POV on being bipolar. Yeah, you can be happy or sad. It's when you have too much happy or sad that you need to check your emotional "sugar" and take corrective steps if needed. We don't need someone running up and pricking our finger every hour, but if we're showing signs of approaching serious ups or downs, and we've crossed the line of being able to do something about it ourselves, THEN we need help.

For about a year I have gone out of my way to avoid being in the same room as my brother. I am sick and tired of having to be submissive towards him and asking for his approval. I have been stablized for 3 years now without a manic episode or severe depression. But still he analyzes my e-mails for anger...etc. And if there is a hint of anger or frustration I am accussed of being confrontational or trying to start an arguement. Having his belonging in my basement for many years along with some adult movies bothered me greatly. I assumed he would have picked up his things many years ago. When I set a boundary in my e-mail to him and told him that I would return the adult movies to him the next time we met...he told me to through out the movies and that I was being confrontational. I think it's pretty low and sad state of affairs when my brother thinks it's acceptable to leave his friend's adult movie collection at my home and then expect me to take responsiblity for disposing of them.

[ilazria]

Originally Posted by Zen888

For about a year I have gone out of my way to avoid being in the same room as my brother. I am sick and tired of having to be submissive towards him and asking for his approval. I have been stablized for 3 years now without a manic episode or severe depression. But still he analyzes my e-mails for anger...etc. And if there is a hint of anger or frustration I am accussed of being confrontational or trying to start an arguement. Having his belonging in my basement for many years along with some adult movies bothered me greatly. I assumed he would have picked up his things many years ago. When I set a boundary in my e-mail to him and told him that I would return the adult movies to him the next time we met...he told me to through out the movies and that I was being confrontational. I think it's pretty low and sad state of affairs when my brother thinks it's acceptable to leave his friend's adult movie collection at my home and then expect me to take responsiblity for disposing of them.

I know part of my therapy is to learn to set firm yet reasonable boundaries. Stability is not found in submission to anyone. The people you love and trust can help you, but stability is fragile if it's based in a fragile spirit. You gave your brother a reasonable timeline to collect his things. If he doesn't, you're well within your rights to toss it.

[VickiesPath]

I heard once (sorry to all of you well-meaning souls out there who really do sincerely help people with your therapeutic work) that many times people go into counseling or therapeutic work because it gives them the upper hand in their casual as well as personal relationships with people around them. This often masks serious personal insecurities.

Originally Posted by Zen888

My brother is an addictions therapist and acts like he knows everything about psychology and psychiatry. So it is a "battle" that I cannot win. We don't live together and rarely see each other.

Aha. Thanks for clearing that up Zen888. That's a whole different can of beans then. To quote Emily Litella, "Nevermind!".

Originally Posted by Vickie in Phoenix

I heard once (sorry to all of you well-meaning souls out there who really do sincerely help people with your therapeutic work) that many times people go into counseling or therapeutic work because it gives them the upper hand in their casual as well as personal relationships with people around them. This often masks serious personal insecurities.

Hmm, that's interesting. I could see how some people would do that. I *still* remember some guy on the Mike Douglas show (dating myself there much?!) that wrote some book about always having the upper hand. Even though I was probably only about 10 at the time, I thought, "Wow, that's pretty obnoxious!" Sure we don't *always* want the lower hand either, but to seek *always* the upper is rather disturbing.
I DO want to be clear though -- while Zen's brother clearly is a challenge, I don't necessarily think this is the case for him. Obviously I'd have no idea. It's simply an interesting thing to consider on a general level.

[lonegael]

(((((Zen)))))) If your brother is an addictions counselor, he should stick to that and not get his fingers dirty in clinical psychology which requires a specific license. That is malpractice on his part.Want me to talk to him? I'd have to go off my lithium first....
Actually, I have the same problem wth my mom. If I get angry or disagree with her, then I "Need my medications checked". Like I need to be crazy to disagree with her It's this type of thing that make rehabilitating from any serious mental illness hard. Some folks just can't stop playing the mind games to make sure they have control. My mom can't get over that I don't just submit. At the same time, she brags to others about what a fighter I am.
Do I understand?
Huggs anyway. I feel your frustration.

[BNLsMOM]

My husband is understanding and supportive, but my mother thinks that if I get the right medication combo that I will be cured. It puts a lot of pressure on me to keep up a stability mask with her because every time I look a little sad, she thinks I am seriously depressed. She won't accept that there is any such thing as hypomania (her father was clearly fully manic) so she keeps telling me that I probably don't have bipolar. It is hard enough for me to believe it at times so to have to convince her that I have bipolar and have been hypomanic is simply exhausting.

Yet every time I have the energy to do something, I have to define the energy to her. Is it regular energy or frantic energy?

Growl.

[lynn09]

Hi, (((((Zen))))) In the late-80s, my first therapist, Juanita, asked me a very simple question one day in therapy: "Lynn, you do know that you have the right to say 'No,' don't you?" That turned out to be one of those "lightning-bolt" events. Between that session and the next one the following week, my mind had completely reprocessed my entire life history in light of this revelation regarding boundaries. That's when I realized that I not only had the right to set boundaries, but a responsibility to myself and others to set those appropriate boundaries; to limit how far into my life I permitted others to come, as well as how far into the lives of others that I allowed myself to be dragged.

Learning to set healthy, appropriate, and reasonable boundaries is an essential part of a human being's mental and emotional development and singularly necessary for us to define our own identities by developing healthy self-awareness, self-confidence, self-respect, self-determination, etc. This normal development process is what we were denied by our abusers who violated our innate sense of boundaries and invaded our personal space in order to forcibly impose on us identities that they had created, defining us as being bad, unworthy, valueless, and deserving only of their and others' contempt and disdain in order to justify abusing us to themselves, others, and even us, to manipulate others into abusing us for them, and damaging or even destroying our fragile and newly developing boundaries and sense of self-worth.

As for your brother, Zen - being that he is a "mental healthcare professional," he knows better than to play that "diagnosis" game in a situation where he does not have professional expertise and/or objectivity. He is not authorized or qualified to evaluate, diagnose, and/or prescribe treatment for you, and you have not contracted with him to provide you with any form of healthcare. Whether he realizes it or not, he is violating your boundaries just like any other abuser, as well as violating his professional ethics. I'm certain that he would not appreciate anyone interfering in his treatment of a client, and he should know better than to invade that sacrosanct relationship between you and your doctors/therapists. His "psychoanalyzing" your every word, act, and emotion, and automatically declaring them all to be symptomatic of your mental condition is irresponsible, condescending, dismissive, demeaning, invalidating, insulting, unprofessional, and unethical - this is psychological/emotional ABUSE and it's high time that we all recognize it for and call it what it truly is.

Further, just like every other "normal" person on this planet, each and every one of us with MIs has every right to be "confrontational" within reason when someone violates our boundaries. One of the fastest ways to identify an abuser is to make your boundaries known and enforce them - abusers cannot stand to have their sense of superiority, power, and control over others challenged and they will do anything and everything they can to violate others' boundaries through deception and manipulation and/or through coercion, bullying, and intimidation.

The other thing that really gets me is that your brother was storing his friend's adult movies in your basement even though he knows full well how you were abused by your father throughout your childhood!! And then to make it your responsibility to dispose of them? How incredibly irresponsible and insensitive - especially on the part of an alleged "mental healthcare professional!"

Zen, I know that your brother is pretty much the only family that you have; however, you (and the rest of us) should be able to trust that your family members will always treat you BETTER than the rest of the world treats you. If your biological family members do not treat you with the same respect and consideration that they expect from you, and if they treat others with more respect and consideration than they show you, then you must create your own "family" by developing mutually-respectful and considerate relationships with others.

This is just my 2-cents worth - I'll get off my soapbox, now!

[lonegael]

Good points there Lynn. Very good!

[crystalrose]

hi i have recently been diagnosed with bipolar 2 and i hav the medication police (my mum) the mood detector (my sister) and the drug pusha (legal prescribed) (my dad.) each of them think they understand my illness better than i do but they don't

[Berries]

Originally Posted by lynn09

Hi, (((((Zen))))) In the late-80s, my first therapist, Juanita, asked me a very simple question one day in therapy: "Lynn, you do know that you have the right to say 'No,' don't you?" That turned out to be one of those "lightning-bolt" events. Between that session and the next one the following week, my mind had completely reprocessed my entire life history in light of this revelation regarding boundaries. That's when I realized that I not only had the right to set boundaries, but a responsibility to myself and others to set those appropriate boundaries; to limit how far into my life I permitted others to come, as well as how far into the lives of others that I allowed myself to be dragged.

Learning to set healthy, appropriate, and reasonable boundaries is an essential part of a human being's mental and emotional development and singularly necessary for us to define our own identities by developing healthy self-awareness, self-confidence, self-respect, self-determination, etc. This normal development process is what we were denied by our abusers who violated our innate sense of boundaries and invaded our personal space in order to forcibly impose on us identities that they had created, defining us as being bad, unworthy, valueless, and deserving only of their and others' contempt and disdain in order to justify abusing us to themselves, others, and even us, to manipulate others into abusing us for them, and damaging or even destroying our fragile and newly developing boundaries and sense of self-worth.

As for your brother, Zen - being that he is a "mental healthcare professional," he knows better than to play that "diagnosis" game in a situation where he does not have professional expertise and/or objectivity. He is not authorized or qualified to evaluate, diagnose, and/or prescribe treatment for you, and you have not contracted with him to provide you with any form of healthcare. Whether he realizes it or not, he is violating your boundaries just like any other abuser, as well as violating his professional ethics. I'm certain that he would not appreciate anyone interfering in his treatment of a client, and he should know better than to invade that sacrosanct relationship between you and your doctors/therapists. His "psychoanalyzing" your every word, act, and emotion, and automatically declaring them all to be symptomatic of your mental condition is irresponsible, condescending, dismissive, demeaning, invalidating, insulting, unprofessional, and unethical - this is psychological/emotional ABUSE and it's high time that we all recognize it for and call it what it truly is.

Further, just like every other "normal" person on this planet, each and every one of us with MIs has every right to be "confrontational" within reason when someone violates our boundaries. One of the fastest ways to identify an abuser is to make your boundaries known and enforce them - abusers cannot stand to have their sense of superiority, power, and control over others challenged and they will do anything and everything they can to violate others' boundaries through deception and manipulation and/or through coercion, bullying, and intimidation.

The other thing that really gets me is that your brother was storing his friend's adult movies in your basement even though he knows full well how you were abused by your father throughout your childhood!! And then to make it your responsibility to dispose of them? How incredibly irresponsible and insensitive - especially on the part of an alleged "mental healthcare professional!"

Zen, I know that your brother is pretty much the only family that you have; however, you (and the rest of us) should be able to trust that your family members will always treat you BETTER than the rest of the world treats you. If your biological family members do not treat you with the same respect and consideration that they expect from you, and if they treat others with more respect and consideration than they show you, then you must create your own "family" by developing mutually-respectful and considerate relationships with others.

This is just my 2-cents worth - I'll get off my soapbox, now!

[lynn09]

Originally Posted by crystalrose

hi i have recently been diagnosed with bipolar 2 and i hav the medication police (my mum) the mood detector (my sister) and the drug pusha (legal prescribed) (my dad.) each of them think they understand my illness better than i do but they don't

Yes, (((((crystalrose))))) - isn't it comforting to know that such "experts" are only and always acting in your best interest and for your welfare? NOT!!!!!!